Really good idea, or sheer bloody mindedness?

[jeffbroadslover]

I can understand that there is a wish for an open view of the river from the green but in this modern age I think that the word "compromise" has been lost.

 

I cannot believe that there are great numbers of people who want to sit on the green on a night to get a view of the river especially during the winter.

 

Why can't the parish council come up with some sort of "compromise"?

 

Restrict waiting times during the summer months but allow parking during the winter months.

 

I wonder if any consideration was given to blind or partially sighted people before installing this obstacle course !

 

If they want to put planters along there then by all means do so but position them towards the side or on the edge of the grass so that there is still access to the roadway even if it were to become a pedestrian only zone  (during the summer)

 

 

 

 

Jeff

[BroadScot]

Like your point about the blind Jeff

 

 

Iain

[kfurbank]

I seem to remember about 5 or 6 years ago when The Swan was refurbished a similar uproar when they installed posts blocking the road on the basis they owned the road between the pub and the pub garden and wanted to protect their customers from accidents. There was much uproar and the posts were removed on the basis it was a public right of way and they couldn't block it.

so we're they right after all? If it is a restricted by way then maybe cars should never have been going past the front of The Swan after all.

This latest move by the parish council could lead to the pub re evaluating their options and the ultimate closure of the road, at least past the pub.

It either is a restricted by way or not, but they can't have it both ways. Insist the pub keeps the road open, yet insist it's a restricted by way when they want to stop public parking.

[Timbo]

What an eyesore...looks like the Costa del Cleggy in miniature, either that or 'Some faarmer pullin' a loose lood on his 'ractor shud his po'ato boxes full f weeds down thur green'!

 

If disabled parking spaces are too far from the amenities I won't visit. I did use the butcher in Horning, as well as the deli but there are other places with easier access ...that don't look like Cleethorpes. 

[Guest]

There seems to be some confusion over the amount of parking still available on the Staithe byway.

 

This google aerial view shows that there are 8 or 9 parking bays still there, adjacent to the river. Also, the parking spaces down the two approach roads at each end are still usable, and indeed, cars still park right outside the shops in Lower street itself.

 

I agree, the planters do indeed look quite ugly with their "curved" placement.

 

The fact remains though, that the half a dozen car "spaces" now denied were in an area forbidden to motor vehicles, according to the sign that has been there for many years.

 

From my reading of the various sources of information, it would appear that the illegal parking there has been bought to a head by some people abusing it significantly, by parking there for "days on end", rather than just an hour or two....

[marshman]

My guess is that there is an underlying problem here, and it has already been mentioned by one earlier poster.

 

I do not want to get embroiled in a discussion which may drag up old open sores but my guess is that it does revolve around longer term parking - I have always parked there for a long time on a casual basis but of late even I have noticed the parking has become more difficult as there seem to be more cars parked there than there used to be -  although I could not possibly speculate why that should be!!!

[Paladin]

The document I provided earlier makes it clear that the whole of the land in question is from its connection to Lower Street beside the Swan Inn, to the connection to Lower Street at the other end of the staithe.

 

Quoted from that document "The Staithe, Lower Street...consists of a wide strip of land on the north east side of the river bank, just below where the river takes a right angled bend in front of the Swan Inn...includes two comparatively narrow strips which are at right angles to the river and which connect the north west end and the south east end of the wide strip with the main street..."

 

IF that road is a restricted byway, then it is ALL so restricted. There are no byelaws which would allow parking in one area and not another - I'm not even sure that such byelaws could be enacted.

 

The planters have been installed as an obstruction. That is the parish council's stated aim. It is a criminal offence to obstruct a restricted byway.

[BroadScot]

Mod hat off!

 

 

I do hope any blind folks are informed about these new obstructions. Horning amazes me at times, from ZERO mobile reception, limited mooring for holiday hirers, perhaps it would be best just block it off at both ends and build a by pass New Cut. Call me a cynic, but one wonders if Horning wants any holday trade at all? Yes, what was that reply I hear from the Parish Council?

 

 

 Iain.

[C.Ricko]

I think the road has been narrowed so you cant park rather than obstructed..

How does the restricted access affect the car parking opposite the gift shop? the sign is at the

end of the spaces but if you cant drive along the staithe then it renders some of those spaces

as well as the ones round the Swan virtually useless..

 

On another note, if the Staithe is for access to the river to load/ unload boats then how can access be restricted or is it  restricted to cars loading and unloading?

[C.Ricko]

I will have to look later but is there another sign for restricted access the other end or is it a one way? (I drive both ways so may need to make a note of this!)

[LizG]

Yes discussion regarding access to drop off things on boats etc. eg Three Rivers.  Maybe a point no one has mentioned -I can assume that some of the boatyards will be pretty annoyed when having to attend a breakdown, and the engineer has to walk a long distance with spare parts etc.

 

Preventing long term parking yes - that is selfish, preventing short term parking for visitors to shops etc no and short sighted in my opinion.

[C.Ricko]

I think the positioning of the planters has highlighted that the road needs to be made wider at the Staithe and Willow so that there is no pinch point if cars are allowed to park again..

[Guest]

I will have to look later but is there another sign for restricted access the other end or is it a one way? (I drive both ways so may need to make a note of this!)

 

The Swan end has a no through road sign Clive, the same as at the Staithe & Willow end.

 

Unfortunately, Google street view doesn't extend down there to see the signage across the back of the Swan from that end.

 

(I guess that shows its private too)....

[Paladin]

The Swan end has a no through road sign Clive, the same as at the Staithe & Willow end.

 

Unfortunately, Google street view doesn't extend down there to see the signage across the back of the Swan from that end.

 

(I guess that shows its private too)....

Is Google now to be accepted as the arbiter of what is, or isn't, a public highway?

 

Looking carefully at the Streetview image, it can be seen that there is a barrier across the byway. The image was taken in 2011. The barrier no longer exists, but would explain the cul-de-sac sign.

 

If even ONE of the planters was to be placed in the middle of a public pavement outside a shop, by the shop-keeper, it would be classed as an obstruction and ordered to be removed (as are, for example, A-boards). Just because the placement is by the parish council doesn't make it a lawful obstruction.

[Paladin]

Correction to my last post - I initially though the image was of the road behind the Swan. Looking again, I can see it is the road beside the Swan and the barrier is across the slipway. Sorry folks.

[BroadScot]

Will let you off Pally with a slap from a smoked kipper!  Seriously, thank you for your input.

 

 

Iain.

[Guest]

Is Google now to be accepted as the arbiter of what is, or isn't, a public highway?.........

 

 

I was just trying to help answer Clive's question about what signage was there....

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I was just trying to help answer Clive's question about what signage was there....

 

I often use google maps / satelite / and streetview to plot a route when going somewhere i`ve never been to before (after getting to the location with an atlas) but it`s always worth remembering the satelite view and streetviews can often be several years old. I checked on the street view of our house a few weeks ago (yes, i do agree, i must get out more) and it showed me washing down my bike on the drive, with my old silver Astra. I got rid of that Astra nearly 3 years ago.

 

But as Strow says, they can be very helpful providing things have`nt dramatically changed.

[Paul]

I personally cannot see what all the commotion is about. Horning Parish Council have taken steps to prevent vehicles parking along a stretch of roadway which they shouldn't be using anyway, in fact are committing an offence each time they do. The restricted byway is NOT obstructed, there is still sufficient width available for non motorised vehicles to pass along it. I guess it is human nature that when a priviledge to which we were never really entitled is finally removed we moan about it, rather than be grateful for all those times we have parked along there and shouldn't have!

 

I know the impact on local businesses is being mooted as the big concern, as is the impact on disabled drivers who will now avoid Horning like the plague. The loss of these few spaces means the end of Horning as we know it. Intact adult male bos taurus feculence,  we all know that is nonsense. Any disabled driver looking to park near the shops, or anyone else wanting to pop into one of the nearby businesses hasn't got a cat in hells chance as these spaces were invariably occupied by the same vehicles for days or even weeks on end. I wonder why? Perhaps if supporting local businesses and looking after the disabled is the prime importance then making the 8 or so spaces by the staithe and willow disabled only and any remaining spaces along the accessible part of the road time restricted is the way forward.

[Paladin]

The restricted byway is NOT obstructed, there is still sufficient width available for non motorised vehicles to pass along it.

There is a minimum width stipulated for restricted byways and the obstructed section no longer complies.

[Guest]

There is a minimum width stipulated for restricted byways and the obstructed section no longer complies.

 

I'm only guessing again here, but as the road is actually a very short loop, and the two halves have independent accesses, the only "obstruction" is the 40 yards or so running alongside the green itself where the planters are.

 

It has in effect, been made into two dead-end sections, as the signs at each end have shown for several years.

[Paladin]

I'm only guessing again here, but as the road is actually a very short loop, and the two halves have independent accesses, the only "obstruction" is the 40 yards or so running alongside the green itself where the planters are.

 

It has in effect, been made into two dead-end sections, as the signs at each end have shown for several years.

It is a criminal offence to obstruct a restricted byway. That is a fact, not an opinion nor guesswork. The byway is the whole of the loop from where it meets the main road at each end. If it is now comprised of two dead end sections, what separates the two sections must be an obstruction, q.e.d

[JennyMorgan]

Hopefully the relevant people will become aware of these facts.

[Paladin]

Hopefully the relevant people will become aware of these facts.

They have been told. This is the latest legal advice from Norfolk County Council to the Horning Parish Council. The planters constitute an illegal obstruction.

 

Full advice, as published by the parish council, can be read here http://horning.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/2015/04/01/update-regarding-the-restricted-byway/

[BroadScot]

Thank you Paladin for the update.

 

 

Iain.