Toll's, is the policy unfair or even illegal?

[senator]

Imtamping2. There is a law in this country that rules terms and conditions invalid if they can be proven to be unfair. You really are not allowed to just write what you want in t&cs but it would be a judges decision to decide if they were fair or otherwise.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Hi Ian, good to hear from you again.

 

I think the whole toll system is in need of a massive upgrade. I pay many things by monthly direct debit, or standing order. I can also pay for many things by bank transfer by a machine in the bank without seeing a cashier, and it costs absolutely NOTHING.  Why oh why do the BA still persist in what really amounts to legalised fraud?.  There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for any system which makes you pay twice for one service, except for pure greed that is.  As for refunds, YES they should be legally obliged to refund any toll on a boat that is taken off the system. The IS`NT any need for any massive admin charges, as everything can be done on-line, and without the need for any BA fogies sitting behind a desk.

 

The only real reason for the system as is, is to give the corrupt BA an excess of funds to ditribute between the old boy network in jollies.

[Warp]

Hi Ian, good to hear from you again.

 

I think the whole toll system is in need of a massive upgrade. I pay many things by monthly direct debit, or standing order. I can also pay for many things by bank transfer by a machine in the bank without seeing a cashier, and it costs absolutely NOTHING.  Why oh why do the BA still persist in what really amounts to legalised fraud?.  There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for any system which makes you pay twice for one service, except for pure greed that is.  As for refunds, YES they should be legally obliged to refund any toll on a boat that is taken off the system. The IS`NT any need for any massive admin charges, as everything can be done on-line, and without the need for any BA fogies sitting behind a desk.

 

The only real reason for the system as is, is to give the corrupt BA an excess of funds to ditribute between the old boy network in jollies.

 

And I thought I was a bit of a BA cynic. I see I have a lot to learn yet...

[JanetAnne]

Can I just point out that should you bring your boat to the system as a visitor you are able to buy a short visit toll which lasts either a week or a fortnight. You can buy these for up to four weeks licensing after which you have to buy the full years toll to continue to use your craft on the network.

 

At the point of buying the years license you are able to offset the monies spent on the short term visitor licenses against the full years one.

 

In the case of a rowing dinghy, if you have bought four different individual weeks short visit tolls, a refund would apply!!

 

I agree with Senator's original proposal even though it does not affect me in any way.  He is right in respect of being able to simply top up your toll contribution to the new vessel once the original has left the network. Make it so it can only be applied once a year to stop abuse and charge a £10 admin fee to facilitate it.

 

Oh yeah, by the way, can we stop the rangers sticking notices on taxed boats just because their owners have not managed to dash out, immediately get in the car and drive 200 miles to stick the tax disc on the boat fast enough.

 

Its the 21st century guys, you can see if the boats taxed or not electronically. The rest is starting to look like pure bloodymindedness

[Warp]

Can I just point out that should you bring your boat to the system as a visitor you are able to buy a short visit toll which lasts either a week or a fortnight. You can buy these for up to four weeks licensing after which you have to buy the full years toll to continue to use your craft on the network.

 

At the point of buying the years license you are able to offset the monies spent on the short term visitor licenses against the full years one.

 

In the case of a rowing dinghy, if you have bought four different individual weeks short visit tolls, a refund would apply!!

 

I agree with Senator's original proposal even though it does not affect me in any way.  He is right in respect of being able to simply top up your toll contribution to the new vessel once the original has left the network. Make it so it can only be applied once a year to stop abuse and charge a £10 admin fee to facilitate it.

 

Oh yeah, by the way, can we stop the rangers sticking notices on taxed boats just because their owners have not managed to dash out, immediately get in the car and drive 200 miles to stick the tax disc on the boat fast enough.

 

Its the 21st century guys, you can see if the boats taxed or not electronically. The rest is starting to look like pure bloodymindedness

 

Unfortunately I have run out of likes for the day...

 

I would say in the rangers defence that if they don't slap the notice on the boat then they have to endure some fairly bloody minded phone calls complaining about untaxed boats

[BroadScot]

This is a very interesting thread, as a hirer I have learned a few things today, and what I have read, IMHO you folk (owners) are in a bit of a raw deal methinks. I am shocked to read about the Tax Disc, what happens for the likes of Alex or ME if I owned a boat. Just jump in the car and drive over 400 miles? I think not!

 

It looks to me from the outside its time the BA moved into the 21st Century and smartish!

 

 

Iain.

[JanetAnne]

This is a very interesting thread, as a hirer I have learned a few things today, and what I have read, IMHO you folk (owners) are in a bit of a raw deal methinks. I am shocked to read about the Tax Disc, what happens for the likes of Alex or ME if I owned a boat. Just jump in the car and drive over 400 miles? I think not!

 

It looks to me from the outside its time the BA moved into the 21st Century and smartish!

 

 

Iain.

I'm going to start a 'stick it' service. Those too far from their boats can send me their tax discs and tell me where to stick it.....

[senator]

the reason mine are still in the envelope is because I hadn't been to the boat due to being out of the country, year before I left them at home so it took me 3 weeks to put them on but 8 weeks to get the glue off from the no toll sticker envelope round the hand rail.

 

Nice to here from you and good to see you are still so reticent, how is that boat share of yours going, have seen thunder around a few times.

 

Warp thanks for the support, it is appreciated.

[Heron]

Where I moor you enter into an agreement to take the mooring for a 12 month period. Give up the mooring and there is no refund. I suspect that this is widespread across the Broads. Far larger amounts involved than the BA toll but you enter into a contract and it is up to you whether you accept the terms and conditions, as you do when you toll a boat.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

the reason mine are still in the envelope is because I hadn't been to the boat due to being out of the country, year before I left them at home so it took me 3 weeks to put them on but 8 weeks to get the glue off from the no toll sticker envelope round the hand rail.

 

Nice to here from you and good to see you are still so reticent, how is that boat share of yours going, have seen thunder around a few times.

 

Warp thanks for the support, it is appreciated.

 

Hi Ian,

 

The Syndicate boating idea has worked for Karen and me, even though we don`t, and probably never will use all 4 weeks of our allocation (unless we still have it in 8 years time when i retire, then Karen goes on short time?), when we`ll use all 4 weeks and possibly more if other owners don`t use all their allocation.

 

What have you bought to replace "Clandestine", and will you be around in early November when we`re back on Lightning (not Thunder)?.

 

I forgot to ask, how`s Heather, all fine and well we hope?.

[JanetAnne]

 I left them at home so it took me 3 weeks to put them on but 8 weeks to get the glue off from the no toll sticker envelope round the hand rail.

 

I certainly dont want to spoil this discussion but thats funny...

[johnb]

I believe the offence is not displaying the toll stickers, however every time I have been unable to attach them to our boat in what I thought was a reasonable time, I have informed BA office. They promised in turn to inform the local Ranger. I have never had a notice stuck on our boat.

 

I have many reservations about some of the actions of BA, but I have never met an unreasonable attitude regarding these matters.

 

When I needed replacement stickers, they were sent free on request.

[senator]

Where I moor you enter into an agreement to take the mooring for a 12 month period. Give up the mooring and there is no refund. I suspect that this is widespread across the Broads. Far larger amounts involved than the BA toll but you enter into a contract and it is up to you whether you accept the terms and conditions, as you do when you toll a boat.

 

Same contract where I moor but the moneys paid for the existing mooring are used towards the new boats moorings if you change during the mooring period. 

[senator]

Understandably Dave as this would reduce the income budgeted for by the Marina owner at the start of the year. 

 

Likewise I would not expect to move my boat to the Thames and expect the Broads Authority to pay the toll.

 

You have to come up with something that actually increases the amount of funds they were anticipating receiving if you want to compare it with something.

 

As a mark of decency the Marina owner where I am moored will refund the unused balance of mooring fees from the point that a new boat moves in if he can re let the mooring.

 

I would certainly not expect the Broads Authority to do something out of decency but the policy of embezzling money from toll payers seriously does need attending to. 

[MauriceMynah]

Unfair?, Well perhaps yes ok, but only to a small number of people.

Illegal? No, certainly not, and using terms such as "embezzling" isn't helpful.

 

You asked for the views of the forum members and then go on to argue against those views when they disagree with your own.

 

You've been badly hit by this "unfairness" so you are miffed, but I don't want top pay more for my toll to make it fairer for others.

[quo vadis]

Pay up look big I have paid my tolls 340.00 for 3 years now and not used the boat

[senator]

Ok MM possibly the act of charging twice for the same thing is perfectly reasonable in certain quarters but could I ask how me paying more for my toll than the Broads authority was expecting on April 1st is going to increase your toll?

 

If you were to pay an extra £160 over what you paid in April now how would it increase anyones toll?

[senator]

Quo Vadis, I don't suppose your boat is in the water on the Broads is it?

[quo vadis]

Yes it is and again I am stuck out here in Gibraltar not able to use it

[dnks34]

Could you not send them an invoice costing the amount of man hours required to remove the glue on your hand rail for payment within 14days.......they wont pay it but if they did you could immediately send them another invoice for the same amount to see how they like it !!

[senator]

Yes it is and again I am stuck out here in Gibraltar not able to use it

Tough Life isn't it, sorry about the weather out there, bet you can't wait to get back and use the boat

[senator]

Could you not send them an invoice costing the amount of man hours required to remove the glue on your hand rail for payment within 14days.......they wont pay it but if they did you could immediately send them another invoice for the same amount to see how they like it !!

Good principle but it would have to be for the same amount plus £160

[MauriceMynah]

I refer to my original observation...

 

"The more simple the system is, the less the chance of abuse and therefore the cheaper it is."

 

To enable the transfer of funds from one boat to another would require the transfer of the record from boat to owner and then from owner to new boat.

They would have to ensure that the old boat was removed from the relevant waterway.

 

Each stage is a complication to a simple system.

Each stage could open the system to abuse.

 

Each of the above statements would cost the BA money. That shortfall, however small, would be a fine excuse for the BA to hike the tolls.

 

Any system would be "unfair" to some group or other. This system is "unfair" to a small minority. I would think it "unfair" if I (and everybody else) ended up paying more to make it "fairer" to that minority.

 

"You said/asked in earlier posts"... and...

"I'm not known for just accepting things but if collective opinion is such that I am wrong fine,"

[dnks34]

A way around this is to Sell your boat via brokerage as a boat kept in Sales does not have to have a toll although then you will be paying up to 8% comission on the selling price so in theory I think you have probably done quite well out of it so dont loose any sleep over it it could have been worse!

[senator]

From a point of how this effects me in the scheme of things it is almost irrelevant but the principle is wrong, whichever way you look at it.

 

MM I really beg to differ with your statement as to the simpler the cheaper, Left to run riot the BA will raise the toll as high as possible. and have done with a view to tenders etc. 

 

I class myself as lucky in that, with enough sacrifices, I can find a way to keep and run a vessel that could be seen as luxurious. Despite this I do not toll a Dinghy for use on the Broads as just for having a boat that spends 99% of it's life carried by the main tolled vessel and has a small outboard attached I am expected to pay out around £100. On the Broads the only place I would use it would be if there are no moorings available and I have to moor the opposite side of the river. or possibly to go from Beccles to The locks.

 

To me this is worth a small charge, lets say £50 but at £100 I have to question value and instead choose not to toll, as do a lot of other people I know. Every lost toll is costing all the other toll payers money.