Sad News

[ExUserGone]

Whilst speculation is rarely useful in these sort of situations the speculation of CO is the most innocent possible cause and if it gets people to check their own monitors and think about the possibilities (and maybe save another crew) it has it's place even if it's proved to not be the cause.

I would imagine the families involved would prefer a bit of safety speculation that may save someone else than to all sit quietly in a pc manner and let it happen.

 

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/wroxham_deaths_police_try_to_identify_two_bodies_found_on_broads_boat_1_4571294

[JennyMorgan]

Referring to a previous tragedy in the area, even to hint at it at this moment in time is crass journalism of the very worst kind. How low can the EDP sink? Not much further in my opinion. 

[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, Poppy said:

That's 'The Daily Fail' for you! Not even fit for the lavatory !

I know, the blessed ink rubs off inside my cut down long-johns!

I suspect that the EDP has syndicated the story, the Mail has sensationalised it and then blow me down our not so beloved EDP picks up on the Mail's comments and adds them to its own. Two negatives don't always make a positive.

[Vaughan]

There is a new photo on EDP24 and I recognise this as the same class of boat that I worked on recently in France when I winterised the engines. It is definitely the same builder and the same class, except I think the one in France seemed a bit bigger.

The boat I worked on had blown air heating (as a room-sealed unit), electric fridge, electric cooker and a diesel generator, completely isolated from any living space. All built to CE regulations Cat B, including the fixed ventilation.

[kadensa]

14 hours ago, dnks34 said:

Its basic human nature to speculate when things like this happen, isn't it?! 

 

 

Possibly, but why should people feel the need to share that 'speculation' on a forum which  may quite easily be seen by a friend or family member of those involved?  It amazes me that people   seem to find acceptable certain behaviour  on the internet, which they would condemn in 'real life'

Edited June 10, 2016 by kadensa
Factual innaccuracy

[JennyMorgan]

It was a man and a woman:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-norfolk-36448326

[Vaughan]

21 minutes ago, kadensa said:

It amazes me that people   seem to find acceptable certain behaviour  on the internet, which they would condemn in 'real life'

I can assure you that the comments we have made so far are coming from real life.

[JennyMorgan]

In reality I think that our forum has handled this tragedy pretty well.

[kadensa]

28 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I can assure you that the comments we have made so far are coming from real life.

OK - I could have worded my post a little better, but I stand by my view that people hide behind the anonymity of the internet to express opinions which they would not do were they in a face to face situation.

[Bob48]

terrible news this morning , my prayers are with the families of those found asleep with their dog at Wroxham island , may your course be straight and true and the wind forever at your back .

[jeffbroadslover]

Quote

 

Thoughts are with the families of those concerned.

Hopefully when the investigation is complete we will find out that this was unfortunately nothing more sinister than a tragic accident.

Jeff

[Vaughan]

31 minutes ago, kadensa said:

people hide behind the anonymity of the internet to express opinions which they would not do were they in a face to face situation.

You are probably right in that view but this is perhaps not the thread, or indeed the forum, in which to express it.

Personally, I have been involved twice in the recovery of victims of CO poisoning on boats and I know there is at least one other contributor to this thread who has also had to do so.

There are also those of us who have been involved, over the years, in the laying down of regulations to try and prevent the recurrance of such tragedies.

Our concern comes from the heart and our comments are based on long, practical and sometimes bitter experience.

[BroadScot]

Reading all the replies, it is only natural to speculate, IMHO, however what the gutter press have put forward as news ,is only fit for the shredder!

Iain

[JennyMorgan]

I note that the victims are, respectively, 50 and 60. 

[mickey123]

I'm only asking as I'm unsure. 

If you rent a house or visit hotels and holiday destinations, are you not supposed to have carbon alarms fitted ( I don't know, just asking) ? Will this be introduced on boats do you think? If it's possible that this was a private boat,  'alarm bells' will ring for installation in holiday boats? Normally follows on ...

 

[BroadScot]

29 minutes ago, mickey123 said:

I'm only asking as I'm unsure. 

If you rent a house or visit hotels and holiday destinations, are you not supposed to have carbon alarms fitted ( I don't know, just asking) ? Will this be introduced on boats do you think? If it's possible that this was a private boat,  'alarm bells' will ring for installation in holiday boats? Normally follows on ...

 

Mickey they were tried in the late 70's but proved to be very unstable and went off at all hours waking more than just your hire boat crew. They didn't last the season, or did, and then were dumped. Richos certainly had them on the boat I hired then.

Iain

[Vaughan]

It is true that there is a big problem of reliability, especially with gas detectors. Modern gas appliances usually have an oxygen sensor and these are very effective.

[Vaughan]

I see from the EDP that the police are ruling out suspicious circumstances and are leaning towards toxic fumes of some sort.

They think the boat is American with petrol engines, in which case it is not fitted out like the one I worked on, although it is the same builder.

The Americans often use petrol engines especially in high performance craft like this one. Their installation standards however, are generally higher than in Europe. In which case I would have expected a sophisticated sniffing system on board.

This is a new boat of a modern design, fitted out to international standards. I remain a bit sceptical, personally.

 

[JennyMorgan]

We have had pleasant, warm evenings and nights recently. Mustn't jump to conclusions either way but like Vaughan I remain sceptical.

[BroadScot]

Time, will answer all, hopefully. So many things forensic have to do these days, to be on the safe side.

Iain

[Jim]

22 hours ago, kadensa said:

Possibly, but why should people feel the need to share that 'speculation' on a forum which  may quite easily be seen by a friend or family member of those involved?  It amazes me that people   seem to find acceptable certain behaviour  on the internet, which they would condemn in 'real life'

Indeed!  My thoughts entirely.

[MauriceMynah]

I have to say that those who have 'speculated' have said nothing in the least upsetting or offensive in any way. It is certain that the family of those tragically killed will be wanting answers themselves and will be speculating every bit as much. It is even possible that they may get some comfort from what has been said here.

I agree that to say things on a forum which one would not repeat in 'real life' can be constrewed as cowardly, especially if those comments were made by someone hiding behind a pseudonym. However, personally, I feel that the subject of good taste in posting would do well to be in a different thread. Ok, I know, I know, I've just added to it here. !

[Regulo]

So, have the BSS caught up with the need to include smoke/CO detectors as mandatory equipment? If not, why not? In any case, why any boat owner would NOT have them defies all sense and logic, to my mind. Probably the same sort of people who don't renew their house smoke alarm batteries. I'm sure everyone on this (and the other) forum have fitted them. Have you? If not, please do so as a matter of urgency.

[teadaemon]

1 hour ago, Regulo said:

So, have the BSS caught up with the need to include smoke/CO detectors as mandatory equipment? If not, why not? In any case, why any boat owner would NOT have them defies all sense and logic, to my mind. Probably the same sort of people who don't renew their house smoke alarm batteries. I'm sure everyone on this (and the other) forum have fitted them. Have you? If not, please do so as a matter of urgency.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this on other threads concerning the BSS, but implementing a new check is not as simple as somebody in the BSS office thinking it'd be a good idea and adding it to the checklist. Can you imagine the (quite reasonable) reaction of boat owners and hire boat operators if that was the procedure?

It's fair to say that CO is one of the current high priorities for the BSS, and there is a lot going on behind the scenes, but at the moment there is no current plan to introduce a check (advisory or essential) for a CO detector. (Although they are strongly recommended.) If anyone does want any further information on the risks associated with CO, the relevant pages of the BSS website can be found here:

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/carbon-monoxide-(co)/

There is also a link there to a pdf of the blue CO leaflet that the BSS office produces, I always have plenty of them in my kit and if anyone wants one and happens to spot me out and about doing a BSS just ask and I'll let you have one.