I Always Use One Of These

[ChrisB]

I don't want to put this on the other thread and I am certainly not saying that one could have prevented the tragic events of Thursday evening

Perhaps it is coming back only in the last ten years  to the Broads after a gap of 40 years and the time between being on the sea but I have always set an anchor light when weighted. in fact I set it if wild moored along the river and certainly in Fleet Dyke that sees a lot of after dark movement.

The beauty of this one is it's very small current draw.

 

http://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-utility-anchor-light.html#.V8FnWpgrJP4

[ChrisB]

I meant to add that it has a photoelectric cell so turns itself on and off so is very useful when returning to your boat after dark. Had mine nine years and would recommend. 

[MauriceMynah]

Interesting Chris, I'd been formulating some such reply on the other thread but gave up as the complications I kept thinking up outweighed any probability/desirability of it being used. here are but two...

1. If the speedboat (I'll call it that just for the sake of giving it a name!) sees two such lights, might the skipper then assume the space between them is clear and not allow for a third craft between them not showing any light?

2. Where would you put such a light so it can...  a, be seen from any angle...   and b, not increase the airdraught in normal cruising?

Incidents like this are mercifully rare, but perhaps having them happen albeit rarely, acts as a caution for the rest of us.

 

[ChrisB]

I just hang mine in an appropriate manner. Tied on top of the canopy's highest point when weighted. Out on the river side when wild on a bank. Yachts have no problem on the forestay or a crosstree. Come morning it goes back in it's box.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

gave up as the complications I kept thinking up outweighed any probability/desirability of it being used.

International Collision Regs (at least as I learned them) do not require an anchor light for craft under 50ft. If Broads bye-laws now do, then they never have in the past.

Consider the old wherries. A big black hull with a great black sail. So the white half-moon painted on the bows was not a throw-back to Chinese superstition : it was so that they could see themselves coming in the dark. Traditionally you don't wear lights at night on the Broads as they throw up a haze on the surface of the water and destroy night vision. For the same reason you should avoid navigating by looking through a glass screen.

The photo of the cruiser in the EDP - from what little I can see - shows an ex Porter and Haylett centre cockpit hire boat, of about 35 ft or more, with a high freeboard white hull. This would be clearly visible at night, during normal navigation.

Another thing, sorry to say - anchor lights are not "hirer proof". Not only can you not expect them to be used properly, but they will get wiped off, the first time they go under a tree branch.

 

[BroadAmbition]

International Collision Regs (at least as I learned them) do not require an anchor light for craft under 50ft. If Broads bye-laws now do, then they never have in the past.

Which is a very stupid short sighted regulation / Bye-law imho.  Just because a 'Rule' is written down in black and white doesn't always make it a correct, sensible one as in this case.

Here's another example of a stupid rule.  A large school local to me has been in operation since 1972 (When I first went there actually)  the road directly outside the school layby car park was restricted to 40mph (Yes 40mph) and only this year was reduced to 30mph, it took many accidents and 45 years of campaigning by many parents for the authorities to reduce it to 30mph which in my opinion is still too fast, 20mph should be the max outside any school, anyway I digress.

Anchor Lights.  An all round white light would have had a strong possibility of stopping the recent accident on Oulton Broad.  I learnt many years ago on Malthouse Broad when onboard various hire craft to leave a cabin / wheelhouse light on when returning in the dinghy from the Maltsters, the number of times we spent ages rowing round in circles to find the blasted boat in the dark, it was even worse if a fog or river mist was in evidence.

Stuff the stupid bye-law / col regs. They need updating.  if that is a problem for the yards / hire craft with risk of damaging the light then have an amendment stating that an inboard light be left on somewhere that can be seen all round.    'B.A' is well below 50ft but common sense means when on the mudweight the anchor light is left on all night.  It's on top of the mast, its 360 deg, it's led lamp doesn't touch the batteries but more importantly it stops other craft / water way users colliding with her. (And it helps us find her if coming back at night in a dinghy).  We have also been known to turn it on when alongside to aid vision when getting back onboard if the mooring is particularly dark.    I was struggling to find a suitable close up pic of the anchor light, so herewith when I brought it back down to the Broads after it had been at home for some extension work

Griff

 

 

 

Anchor lights not required under 50ft

[Jim]

Never have overnighted on mudweight, but if we did, I would do the same Griff. 

[JennyMorgan]

8 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

International Collision Regs (at least as I learned them) do not require an anchor light for craft under 50ft. If Broads bye-laws now do, then they never have in the past.

Which is a very stupid short sighted regulation / Bye-law imho.  Just because a 'Rule' is written down in black and white doesn't always make it a correct, sensible one as in this case.

Here's another example of a stupid rule.  A large school local to me has been in operation since 1972 (When I first went there actually)  the road directly outside the school layby car park was restricted to 40mph (Yes 40mph) and only this year was reduced to 30mph, it took many accidents and 45 years of campaigning by many parents for the authorities to reduce it to 30mph which in my opinion is still too fast, 20mph should be the max outside any school, anyway I digress.

Anchor Lights.  An all round white light would have had a strong possibility of stopping the recent accident on Oulton Broad.  I learnt many years ago on Malthouse Broad when onboard various hire craft to leave a cabin / wheelhouse light on when returning in the dinghy from the Maltsters, the number of times we spent ages rowing round in circles to find the blasted boat in the dark, it was even worse if a fog or river mist was in evidence.

Stuff the stupid bye-law / col regs. They need updating.  if that is a problem for the yards / hire craft with risk of damaging the light then have an amendment stating that an inboard light be left on somewhere that can be seen all round.    'B.A' is well below 50ft but common sense means when on the mudweight the anchor light is left on all night.  It's on top of the mast, its 360 deg, it's led lamp doesn't touch the batteries but more importantly it stops other craft / water way users colliding with her. (And it helps us find her if coming back at night in a dinghy).  We have also been known to turn it on when alongside to aid vision when getting back onboard if the mooring is particularly dark.    I was struggling to find a suitable close up pic of the anchor light, so herewith when I brought it back down to the Broads after it had been at home for some extension work

Griff

 

 

 

Anchor lights not required under 50ft

Anchor light may not be required but a change of house flag certainly is!

[JennyMorgan]

What also has to be considered are boats on buoys. Okay for folk who know a waterway but nevertheless a consideration to locals and visitors alike.

[BroadAmbition]

Erm that flag ain't been flown from 'B.A's mast for years now.  We do have an updated house flag, which means of course now I'll have to try and find a picture of that too

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

2 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

Erm that flag ain't been flown from 'B.A's mast for years now.  We do have an updated house flag, which means of course now I'll have to try and find a picture of that too

Griff

Is that the flag with what looks like a line drawing of what you find under a cat's tail then?

[BroadAmbition]

Here, is this any better? can't seem to find a pic of the mast/flags

Griff

[ChrisB]

Strewth Griff, I just looked quick and thought the gentleman seated left was Jeremy Corbyn! 

[BroadAmbition]

Strewth Griff, I just looked quick and thought the gentleman seated left was Jeremy Corbyn! 

Cracking   I'm sure our Barry (Springsong) will be highly delighted!

Griff

[ChrisB]

I appologise profusely. My glasses are coming up for replacement after two years in December.

[vanessan]

Can't be Jeremy Corbyn, the gentleman is sitting on a seat!

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

Which is a very stupid short sighted regulation / Bye-law imho.

I didn't hope to be "hauled over the coals" for the International Rules, but so be it. My comments were based on a lifetime of night navigation on inland waterways.

Others on other threads have leapt in to remind us that these "Colregs" don't apply when there are local inland waterway bye-laws.

I have already admitted that I am way out of date, so the question is simple : do the BA navigation bye-laws stipulate the wearing of anchor lights when moored on a buoy or a mud weight? 

Or don't they?

 

[marshman]

Not sure to be honest, whether such a thing as an anchor light would make any difference - the photo shows an impact area on the starboard aft corner and to be honest, it looks as though it was more of a  misjudgement. A masthead light shows the boats overall position but will not delineate the extremities of the vessel. Such comments as give anchored vessels a wide margin mean nothing in an accident.

As PW rightly suggests, it is all so tragic turning on a split second decision. Let us hope that the guys life is not blighted forever by such action. What is certain is that you cannot put the clock back, sadly, however much you would wish you could, nor should the Authorities respond with an inappropriate knee jerk reaction.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

I didn't hope to be "hauled over the coals" for the International Rules, but so be it. My comments were based on a lifetime of night navigation on inland waterways.

Others on other threads have leapt in to remind us that these "Colregs" don't apply when there are local inland waterway bye-laws.

I have already admitted that I am way out of date, so the question is simple : do the BA navigation bye-laws stipulate the wearing of anchor lights when moored on a buoy or a mud weight? 

Or don't they?

 

So far as I can see, generally, for pleasure vessels under 82 feet in length, no. But if anchored in or near a channel (and the definition of channel is quite widely drawn), yes. And if anchored for the purpose of fishing, yes (but visibility only required for 100 metres). So the answer is not as simple as the question! All this applies to anchored vessels, not moored ones.

[ChrisB]

No, the vast number of boats and all hire boats do not and there is no requirement to do so. I shall however set a light whenever I do because

1. I can be seen on even a moonless night

2. I feel safer

3. It makes going on deck at night much safer should you drag

4. And it makes common sense.

One of my best friends died 49 years ago last month, the day after we left school. He had a place at Oxford to study biochemistry. He was riding home on a rainy night on his Honda 125, the Police said he was well instide the 30mph limit. Someone could not be bothered to put proper lighting on a skip in the road.

[riyadhcrew]

We were recently on Brinks Rhapsody and mud-weighted overnight on Malthouse broad once and South Walsham Broad Twice. On all occasions, I left the salon lights on - just incase!!!! 

[LondonRascal]

In May I night-naved to Barton Broad and upon arrival picked a good place to drop the mud weight - but a private boat was some distance away with their anchor light on.

It really made such a difference to see - from some distance away - there was a boat there and also made choosing a location to drop the mud weight  easier, since you can use their anchor light as a good judge of distance to take into account swinging round on the anchor should the wind direction change.

I think the main reason why the Bylaw for the Broads does not see using an anchor light  as a requirement is because there would have been so many hire boats that would have needed to have had one retro fitted and then hope the hirer would use it when mud weighted on a Broad.  I can only imagine those in power deemed it too much effort and cost verses risk (as ever it seems to be) to make it a requirement.

That said I am sure in some Skippers Manuals I have seen it said that if mud weighting to leave a cabin light on. 

Since it seems likely a full report would be produced into the accident that occurred on Oulton Broad since the Marine Accident Investigation Branch has been informed, we might in due course have more precise details of what happened.  One thing that does seem likely is regardless of what happened or how, speed surly has played a part referable to the injuries of those who have been taken into hospital.

 

[Vaughan]

Your replies are interesting and I suppose my question had a bit of a "barb" in it, as other countries in Europe comply with the construction regs of the ERCD and all hire boats are built to Category D of these regs, so they have Nav lights and an anchor light fitted as standard.

They are only allowed to cruise, however, on waterways of the "Third" category where there is not heavy maritime traffic and they are forbidden :

(a) to anchor in the waterway, and

(b) to navigate at night.

This means private as well as hire, so they are fitted with all the lights, but have no need of them.

If there was such a requirement on the Broads, surely all hire boats would have nav lights? By law of the BSS? Even though they are not insured, and thus forbidden by their contract, to cruise at night?

I have already suggested that a 35 foot white hulled cruiser would have been clearly visible during normal night navigation.

Haven't we all missed something?

There is a speed limit on Oulton Broad!

[MauriceMynah]

In these days of virtually zero amps usage perhaps some LED lights fitted that come on whenever the engine isn't running. to turn them off, simples, you run your engine.

[MauriceMynah]

Vaughan, the speed limit is largely immaterial in this case, We accept that it was being broken but as we all know, that will ALWAYS happen. We are thinking of ideas to minimize the effects of such actions and assist others.