rightsaidfred Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 8 hours ago, dnks34 said: Im sure I dont need to point out that there must be hundreds of boats on the Southern Broads that with a permanent closure of both swing bridges would have their cruising area significantly restricted. This will affect the BA in Toll revenue, put boatyards/marinas out of business costing jobs. It may well affect the value of the boats that are now unable to move freely and it would certainly be farther reaching than Brundall. There may be other consequences not even taken into consideration, dredging for example (which low airdraft boat owners need just as much as the tall ones) maintenance equipment not being able to move around (i dont know will the current machinery go under Somerleyton?) So when all these boats do move away or the 100s of affected owners refuse to pay a Toll for their now severley limited cruising area several hundred low airdraft boats are going to appear and take their place..........where are they coming from? Who is building them? Who is buying them? Or might it be that Tolls rise enormously for everyone unaffected? I think we need to accept the possibility that if the 160 million rebuild money isnt forthcoming and Network Rail/Government are met with fierce resistance when it comes down to welding them shut (they would probably still cause problems) I dont think its going to take long for abandonment to seem like the next best cheapest option. Welding them closed could result in repercussions felt long in to the future and all boat owners regardless of airdraft ought to makesure that can never be seen as a viable option. Firstly I will say I have no wish to see any ones lifestyle compromised or their ability to enjoy the broads in whatever manner they choose curtailed but rather than get emotive lets look at things realistically. To start with I have seen no suggestion of welding the bridges shut as a solution just that the current situation is likely to remain the norm without the bridges being rebuilt at a cost of £80M. in the real world and current climate forgetting the state of roads the NHS etc there are many areas of the rail network affecting far more people and with a bigger financial impact that are more likely to be prioritised, this probably means that journeys will require an extra level of planning and a better system of communication. As for the impact again lets keep things in perspective, while it may affect a few boat sales given the numbers of the boats that leave the system by road and the two main brokers having bases on the Bure it shouldn't be impossible for them to carry on trading maybe just require a bit more thought or planning or utilising St,Olives. In respect of private owners given how many boats never leave their moorings or only trundle to Bramerton and Reedham and back the numbers affected are probably not that great in relation to the whole, and while I have a lot of sympathy with them we all have to choose and plan according to our needs, I guess the biggest impact is on organised Cruises in Company. Given how long it takes to organise these meetings and that discussion has been going on for a long while and facts have been gathered including costings I very much doubt the NYA appeal had any impact whatsoever on the timing of the meeting, what I don`t understand is why the NYA need to do this when the RYA with a new found interest in the Broads already have the resources to undertake the exercise but don't appear to have any involvement in the discussion. Fred 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 hours ago, ChrisB said: Your are correct, otherwise why on earth would you keep a 40ft TSMY twenty two miles up a river? I keep a 30ft twin engine boat even further up river than you suggest and I assure you it goes out to sea any time I get the time and weather, it's only a few hours from sea when it comes down to it. Luckily I can fit under reedham anytime with a quick fold down (somerleyton needs lowish water for me) and can get under haven bridge half tide or lower so pick my time if it's not working, for longer trips south when the tide streams do not suit I will go out of yarmouth when I can get under and stop at southwold overnight and take a favourable tide the next day. (it's hard with a dog mooring at yarmouth quay) I can't be bothered with lowestoft these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnks34 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 hours ago, rightsaidfred said: Firstly I will say I have no wish to see any ones lifestyle compromised or their ability to enjoy the broads in whatever manner they choose curtailed but rather than get emotive lets look at things realistically. To start with I have seen no suggestion of welding the bridges shut as a solution just that the current situation is likely to remain the norm without the bridges being rebuilt at a cost of £80M. in the real world and current climate forgetting the state of roads the NHS etc there are many areas of the rail network affecting far more people and with a bigger financial impact that are more likely to be prioritised, this probably means that journeys will require an extra level of planning and a better system of communication. As for the impact again lets keep things in perspective, while it may affect a few boat sales given the numbers of the boats that leave the system by road and the two main brokers having bases on the Bure it shouldn't be impossible for them to carry on trading maybe just require a bit more thought or planning or utilising St,Olives. Impact of what scenario are you alluding to? A full and permenant closure as 40something suggested or just opening when it suits NR as now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, dnks34 said: Impact of what scenario are you alluding to? A full and permenant closure as 40something suggested or just opening when it suits NR as now? Sorry but I am not suggesting a full and permanent closure, nor is that what I would want to happen. It is however a potential endgame that warrants discussion. I am looking at this situation impartially, I have no particular axe to grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnks34 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, 40something said: Sorry but I am not suggesting a full and permanent closure, nor is that what I would want to happen. It is however a potential endgame that warrants discussion. I am looking at this situation impartially, I have no particular axe to grind. This is where we disagree, it should never ever I repeat ever be seen as an option and by talking about it as an option here we wont be helping the cause. We need to discuss options for a permanant solution benefiting both parties but in my mind if one party has to loose out it should only be the railway. I dont claim to know the legalities but long in the past two opening bridges were built over a river, if it had been allowed in law to build fixed structures over a navigable waterway Im sure that would have happened back then. Maybe another member can come along now to inform me that Network Rail hold all the cards and actually have no legal responsibilty to ensure the railway crossings dont interfere with activities (commercial or leisure) on the river??!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightsaidfred Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, dnks34 said: Impact of what scenario are you alluding to? A full and permenant closure as 40something suggested or just opening when it suits NR as now? What about the middle ground, I havn`t seen any mention of a permanent closure, all I understand is that till such times as the bridges can be rebuilt there could be periods of mechanical failure outside of any ones control and as with a lot of things in life that are not perfect we have to adapt and manage situations to the best of our ability, until some one finds that mythical pot of gold that is as much as can be expected, the one area that could be improved is communication. Fred 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said: What about the middle ground, I havn`t seen any mention of a permanent closure, all I understand is that till such times as the bridges can be rebuilt there could be periods of mechanical failure outside of any ones control and as with a lot of things in life that are not perfect we have to adapt and manage situations to the best of our ability, until some one finds that mythical pot of gold that is as much as can be expected, the one area that could be improved is communication. Fred A sensible summing up of the situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Weakness has been shown and weakness has been taken advantage of, plain and simple. Network Rail has had plenty of time to plan ahead and budget for the replacement of these two bridges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 It is very easy to get emotive about these two bridges but let us not forget that British Rail had 47 years of ownership, Railtrack 8 years before Network Rail was formed as a Government owned company. The tragic Hatfield rail crash highlighted an immediate need for nearly £600 million on safety grounds and the Government buyout of Railtrack cost about £500 million. Network Rail are currently undertaking £38 billion in upgrades and new lines. At some point a solution will be found and I think that these two bridges will not be viewed in isolation but viewed against the whole of the infastructure of this line which is probably way down the list of priorities at present. The bridges are not a safety hazard, they are an inconvenience for a number of boat owners that is why I do not think these bridges will be treated as a stand alone project. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshman Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 That just about sums it up methinks! Looking locally the Trowse Bridge upgrade must come much much further up the "needed" category! Await the furore when they try and make that non opening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annv Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Why do the bridges stick? there must have been hot days/weather in the past 100 years if they didn't stick then why do they stick now,yes bearings locking latches do wear but wear usually means they become looser, bearings excepted. So did they stick in the past? if not what has changed!!. i remember some time in the past a bridge operator was claiming that he could fix it with a angle grinder but was not allowed to as he wasn't a engineer. I cannot believe the weather is hotter now then when i was a school child./teenager. John 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Allegedly - in the past there was a spare set of rails next to the bridge that was a tiny bit shorter (colloquially known as the summer rails) than the ones in use through the rest of the year. Once the weather got warm, the rails were swapped over and the shorter rails had more clearance to allow for their expansion. there is also some debate about the going over to continuously welded rail, where expansion can no longer be eliminated as there are no joins in the rails every 60 ft, so at ends where the continuous rail stops, there is a bigger expansion than before. nowadays of course there is not the manpower or inclination to send a gang out to swap the rails over twice a year, so now the bridges expand, and either stick, or cause worry that if they are opened they wont be able to shut them again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High6 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 So - the big question: why do the continuously welded rails through the entire railway network not buckle as frequently as the ones at the bridge? Is it exacerbated by the bridge itself expanding, or is it the bridge mechanism rather than the rails which is at fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 when its hot, everything expands, some parts expand more than others, but the critical part is where the rails line up, that they are accurately aligned otherwise the trains will either damage their wheels, the rail, or both or become derailed,. During the recent hot spell there were several cases where the railway imposed speed restrictions on the track where the heat had caused too much compression to build up in the track. the reduced speed means that its safer for the trains on the track, but that braking forces are reduced (as a train brakes, a compression wave runs in front of the train through the track, adding to the forces induced by warm weather) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keifsmate Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Had a nice day out on the Mid Norfolk Railway. Is this expansion joint the answer to the problems with Somerleyton and Reedham bridges? Seems to me that these placed just before either end of the bridge approach might work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitrunner Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Stand on the platform at Brundall and they have the same joints. So they already use them on the line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Look over the road bridge at reedham on holly farm road and you'll see similar joins, I don't think it's welded rail at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.