Bum Clencher!

[JennyMorgan]

Is this a motor boater's worst nightmare? I came across this picture this morning, dated 1935. It's at Horning, could perhaps be any Sunday morning, not much has changed apart from the faces. Made me smile, what would I do, apart from pass copious wind,  close my eyes tightly and think of England? Well, slow down would be a start! It's not in the best interests of a sailing boat to hit a motor boat although they might cut things pretty fine. If it's a handicap race then seconds in time do matter. So what can motor boaters do? In an ideal world look at the sails. In this instance they are on the right hand side which means that the wind is from left to right. In that instance, ideally, pass a sailing boat down wind of it, on the side that the sails are on. Us sailing types will appreciate that! However, if in doubt, slow down close to the bank and above all, cover your ears, sailing boaters, sometimes reluctantly I admit, will avoid you but frustration at lost seconds could means that the odd expletive might just slip out!!  This is just advice,  not a hard and fast rule, just a generalisation, common sense and the proximity of the bank, for example, does have some bearing! 

[Poppy]

Very good advice, worth noting. The way a sail boats sails are set can give the unwary a deap of information. For example, if they are pulled tightly in and the yacht is going across the river, it is likely to tack (turn) and come back the other way. Alwas pass behind - even if that means slowing for a moment or two.

If they are well out from the centre line it is unlikely (but not certain) that the yacht is going ti immediately change course.

Always try to be 'wind aware' as a motor boat helmsman. It will help you in many ways.

[NorfolkNog]

Also if they are blowing free as Mrs Nog calls it they often have the sail out at right angles to the river. This 'usually' seems to indicate they are going in s straight line, but keep clear of the flappy bits! 

Yachts also sometimes come in a straight line bur on the wrong side of the river, perhaps JM or Poppy could comment on that one? 

 

PS - if we are in doubt Mrs Nog always tries to get an indication of intent from the helm

 

[Ray]

Meeting a boat under sail always feels a bit like meeting an alien driving a dodgem car the wrong way on the M25... But I'll admit they do look cool 

[Broads01]

The photo made me smile because apart from the fact it's black and white and grainy it could have been taken yesterday. Id be inclined to dive as near to the right bank as I could get and slow down to walking pace and stop if necessary. You saily types can cope with me more easily if I'm stationary I feel. 

[Poppy]

41 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

 

Yachts also sometimes come in a straight line bur on the wrong side of the river, perhaps JM or Poppy could comment on that one? 

 

PS - if we are in doubt Mrs Nog always tries to get an indication of intent from the helm

 

The wind can be considerably  influenced by what's on the bank - even reasonably tall reed beds will have an effect. In such situations we prefer to get away from the windward bank - about a third of the way across is the advisory distance. Then there are currents/tides to consider. The tide will always be stronger on the outside of a bend, so if we are 'punching ' a foul tide under sail we will attempt to hold the inside where its effects are less noticable.

With respect to 'indication of intent' I will always try to give this.  If a yacht helm points to you, and then points to either the left or right then THAT is the side he wishes YOU to pass . That may mean you crossing to the 'wrong' side of the river. Remember, there isn't an Armco barrier down the middle.

It's really surprising how many sadly appear confused by this issue.

 

[vanessan]

52 minutes ago, Poppy said:

With respect to 'indication of intent' I will always try to give this. 

I wish more sailies would do this, even an experienced stinky helm can be caught out. 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Poppy said:

It's really surprising how many sadly appear confused by this issue.

Holiday makers being confused is understandable but I always feel that there are some private owners out there who should know better.

 

1 hour ago, NorfolkNog said:

Yachts also sometimes come in a straight line bur on the wrong side of the river, perhaps JM or Poppy could comment on that one? 

There is no such thing as the 'wrong' side of the river in sailing terms! Being on one side or the other might be due to the tide, us sailing types are tide canny, don't you know!  Tide excepted we will normally work along the bank from where the wind is blowing, it generally gives us greater manouverability.  On the other hand we might work along the bank to which the wind blows as it might mean a cleaner, uninterrupted wind. In other words, lots of variables so no hard and fast rule on that one!

[vanessan]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Holiday makers being confused is understandable but I always feel that there are some private owners out there who should know better.

I think the same can be said for private rag and sticks. There are some who could easily give an indicatory signal to be helpful but prefer to ignore others on the river. They should all be like Poppy!

[JennyMorgan]

48 minutes ago, vanessan said:

They should all be like Poppy!

Arghhhhhhhhh!!!!

Surely not, he's a one off!

[NorfolkNog]

3 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

In other words, lots of variables so no hard and fast rule on that one!

Very helpful there JM and in perfect harmony with Poppy!   

 

[Wyndham]

8 hours ago, Poppy said:

The wind can be considerably  influenced by what's on the bank.....

And what's on the bank can be considerably influenced by the strength of wind.

We've pretty much worked out what they're gonna do now.  but never forget, not all sailies are experienced and will give directions and not all mobo helms will have a clue what to do even if pointed at.

It's the way it is and always will be. We were all learners once.

Coming Thru......

[JennyMorgan]

23 minutes ago, Wyndham said:

It's the way it is and always will be. We were all learners once.

Very true but regretfully some owners seemingly make no effort whatsoever to learn!

[Wyndham]

6 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Very true but regretfully some owners seemingly make no effort whatsoever to learn!

I'm not so sure they make no effort to learn but that they don't realise the need to learn, same thing I suppose but I feel a circle coming on as in.... "It's the way it is and always will be"

[MauriceMynah]

10 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Very true but regretfully some owners seemingly make no effort whatsoever to learn!

A little harsh Peter!

I have found that the more I learn the more the sailies demand I learn.

It seems the onus is on me to know/calculate not only when the yacht is to change course, but on what course it will change to. I need to know the draft of the yacht I am closing in on, and the out of channel water depth thereby knowing when the yacht is going to change tack. on a river I need to work out if the next tack will be a long one or a short one. On Barton and Hickling I need to know which buoys mean what to which class of craft. I need to know if the sailing craft I'm looking at is in a race or not. I need to know how fast the yacht I'm just overtaking will go if it is on a long tack..

All the sailies needs to know is which way he would like me to go, and to have the manners to tell me. 

[vanessan]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

All the sailies needs to know is which way he would like me to go, and to have the manners to tell me.

Wrong MM - all the sailies need to know is that all stinky helms are idiots! 

[MauriceMynah]

Not sure that I care for that !

[vanessan]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Not sure that I care for that !

Nor do I -  that certainly didn’t come out quite as I meant it! My apologies. What I was trying to say is that I sometimes get the impression that some sailies appear to think that stinky helms lack common sense. Horses for courses, it happens the other way round too I know. As Wyndham quoted above ‘it’s the way it is and always will be’. 

[Poppy]

1 minute ago, vanessan said:

Nor do I -  that certainly didn’t come out quite as I meant it! My apologies. What I was trying to say is that I sometimes get the impression that some sailies appear to think that stinky helms lack common sense. Horses for courses, it happens the other way round too I know. As Wyndham quoted above ‘it’s the way it is and always will be’. 

Some  sailies get most put out by some stinky helms who appear to behave as if they know everything some of the time. 

As I have said earlier , I invariably attempt to advise MoBos where I would like them to pass - for both their and my greatest convenience. It is most irritating when this is ignored.

It's a pain when the stinky appears to be acting out of inexperience or is having a 'pass t' bicycle clips muther'  moment, but it's downright bloody annoying when the other helm is well experienced and is apparently being downright bloody minded !

[MauriceMynah]

29 minutes ago, vanessan said:

Nor do I -  that certainly didn’t come out quite as I meant it! My apologies.

Fully accepted and thank you.

20 minutes ago, Poppy said:

As I have said earlier , I invariably attempt to advise MoBos where I would like them to pass - for both their and my greatest convenience. It is most irritating when this is ignored.

and we thank you. I'm sure the Mobo's who wilfully ignore your signals are not the wisest of fellows.  

28 minutes ago, Poppy said:

It's a pain when the stinky appears to be acting out of inexperience or is having a 'pass t' bicycle clips muther'  moment, but it's downright bloody annoying when the other helm is well experienced and is apparently being downright bloody minded !

Ahh yes, Bloody mindedness. Never a good thing whichever camp you're in.

[vanessan]

5 minutes ago, Poppy said:

As I have said earlier , I invariably attempt to advise MoBos where I would like them to pass - for both their and my greatest convenience. It is most irritating when this is ignored.

I don’t think we have ever had a situation where we have misunderstood the guidance from a sailie as to which side they want us to pass. Probably mainly because we have a fair idea anyway having learnt over many years what is likely to happen. But, there is no set way (as far as I know) of giving that sort of guidance or direction and that makes me wonder how often directions are misunderstood, particularly by newbie cruiser hirers. I am sure there must be guidance in the Skipper’s Manual but I am not convinced that gets read as quickly as it should. 

We tend to take note of when various races etc are taking place (thanks to the very useful Green Book) and always endeavour to avoid those areas and times if we can. One day last year we did time it a bit wrong and caught the tale end of a race. We hung back purposely as the yachts were almost at Horning SC but another private boat barged on through and got into a frightful mess amongst a load of tacking yachts! 

[JennyMorgan]

5 hours ago, vanessan said:

Wrong MM - all the sailies need to know is that all stinky helms are idiots! 

Not so, just some of 'em, and thankfully a minority.

[grendel]

9 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

5 hours ago, vanessan said:

Wrong MM - all the sailies need to know is that all stinky helms are idiots! 

Not so, just some of 'em, and thankfully a minority.

so only a minority of sailies need to know that all stinky helms are idiots?

do all the rest already know this?

[Poppy]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

so only a minority of sailies need to know that all stinky helms are idiots?

do all the rest already know this?

I couldn't possibly comment  

[TheQ]

My comments having been on that bit of water many many times..

The wind is in a highly unusual  direction,  north east. 

Looking at the photo that is the very start of the race. 

In those days the race was controlled from the headland on the left of the picture the line going across to the Dyke on the right. 

It is actually  very simple to safely pass,  

If going up river away from camera,  keep right fołlow the boats up and if a gap appears go past. 

If coming down river toward camera,  keep right, slow down as much as possible if possible stop as they get to you.  Let them move out to avoid you,  they will not want to damage their pride and joy, it would also interfere with their race. 

Just to compare a picture from recent times, I'm in there somewhere.. 

From the picture

that day boat is too far out in the river. 

Wind westerly 

Half way through the Second race series in the morning, 

The optimist is rounding buoy x in the middle of the picture. 

The big boats are rounding buoy 5 below the picture,  which makes boat 36, last in his class