Swt Carlton Marsh Reserve.

[RealWindmill]

Heads up for a date for your diary for September - the impressive new Visitor centre will be opening on the reserve at the end of the month ( September).

Also the Reserve features on the Countryfile programme on the tele this evening.

[vanessan]

Had to smile at the description given in my TV guide:

’Matt Baker and Margherita Taylor visit the Somerleyton Estate in Suffolk to find out about an ambitious project aiming to turn East Anglia into a nature reserve’. 
 

 

[RealWindmill]

What with the National Park debate and now an East Anglia wide nature reserve , that's one hell of a rebranding exercise.

[marshman]

I think you are at least partially wrong - the piece on Countryfile is about the Somerleyton  Estate and around I think - I read it somewhere else.  It may be about the new Reserve as well but not sure that is the main bit - it is about the usual rewilding issue I suspect!!

[Paul]

49 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

What with the National Park debate and now an East Anglia wide nature reserve , that's one hell of a rebranding exercise.

I note next weeks episode is a Mary Berry special, perhaps they are thinking of turning the venerable lady into a National Park?

[marshman]

I loved the optimism of the Trainee talking about restoring Herringfleet Mill.  Lets hope he doesn't look back at what the BA did to Clayrack Mill on the Ant! Still nothing happening on that despite my digging every now and then!

The trouble is that despite the largish grant given recently, the money is too thinly spread and as a result, my feeling more is more is being spent on organisation rather than actual real work and progress - now where have I heard before that being said of the BA?

[MauriceMynah]

11 hours ago, marshman said:

now where have I heard before that being said of the BA?

I cannot imagine!

[RealWindmill]

It's a shame to have watched the Herringfleet Mill deteriorate over the years. Hopefully this restoration work will happen.

Two of the old sails are now rotting on the ground and I don't like walking under it in any wind anymore due to the rotten spars holding the remaining two up - as seen in the TV programme. Even used to moor up up in the mill dyke to the river 40 odd years ago but that has long silted up and overgrown.

Somerleyton estates had in the past appeared to abandon it although there has been someone come and creosote the woodwork from time to time.

I heard tell that SWT were asked about  maintaining it but their remit is more about nature conservation than buildings. That's more a National Trust type thing. Whether the BA were ever likely to get involved I don't know but now as MM says if some grant money is now available to finance the job then maybe that lads optimism will be justified and a piece of landmark heritage can once again stand proud.

[TheQ]

There was a large section on Countryfile on the 1000 Acre extension to the Carlton Marshes farm land to marsh..

All very well, but not very green, that's 100 acres of food generation that will have to be imported..

[marshman]

I am afraid I would hold out little hope of any help from the BA! I actually know one of the owners of a pump supposedly getting help - enough said I am afraid!

I accept that it is not really a function of the BA to get involved with windmill restoration - here in Norfolk there is the Norfolk Windmills Trust but that somehow has an involvement with the County Council, another well known organisation who could not organise a drink in a brewery, so little real hope there either!!

As you say, there is  little or no money available for such things - a real sham as they add so much to the landscape - there is grant money available but that then gets tied up largely in the organisation of the projects generally and is a) never enough and/or  b) too widely spread. Intentions are good but in reality they tend to just fizzle out for a variety of reasons. A shame, as Norfolk will soon be without most of its windpumps, a vital part of its heritage - but to be fair the costs of restoration are huge and in reality the skills of the original mill restorers appear already to have literally died out and probably been lost.

A real shame for the future of our Broadland  landscape.

[SteveO]

I recall a few years ago seeing a piece on local news which showed a number of Dutch millwrights visiting the Broads to be shown by the BA how to look after old windmills. The words "grandmother", "suck" and "eggs" came to mind. 

 

[Upcycler]

On 23/08/2020 at 20:25, marshman said:

The trouble is that despite the largish grant given recently, the money is too thinly spread and as a result, my feeling more is more is being spent on organisation rather than actual real work and progress 

It's a common thing where money is spent on surveyors, architects and planning, but the work never starts because there is not enough money left in the kitty!

[marshman]

Clearly that was not entirely inappropriate of them to try - since then I don't actually think we have actually restored one in the area, nor are we likely to! Lets see how Stracey Mill gets on!!

Neither is there anyone left I suspect, to pass those skills on anymore. Millwrights are a bit like hens teeth - getting rarer by the day! There are a few old boys around who have some of the skills but they are all knockin' on a bit I am afraid.

[Cheesey69]

I feel it’s the general trend to turn the clock back to before humans came along. 
Call me strange but acres of flooded land don’t do it for me. It moves nature away from me so I can’t stumble upon it. 
I used to love groups of water birds flocking  around  the boats but I don’t really see that as much as I did. 
How long before humans continued rubbing up against nature on the broads gets more erased and buffered and, here is the point, our boating activities starts to get really relegated in the interests nature welfare?

Mooring spots removed, rights of way not maintained and wild moorings restricted by a very powerful lobby?

[Bytheriver]

22 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

I feel it’s the general trend to turn the clock back to before humans came along. 
Call me strange but acres of flooded land don’t do it for me. It moves nature away from me so I can’t stumble upon it. 
I used to love groups of water birds flocking  around  the boats but I don’t really see that as much as I did. 
How long before humans continued rubbing up against nature on the broads gets more erased and buffered and, here is the point, our boating activities starts to get really relegated in the interests nature welfare?

Mooring spots removed, rights of way not maintained and wild moorings restricted by a very powerful lobby?

Its the Broads Local Access Forum next Wednesday at 2pm its held on line with the link added to the agenda on this webpageon Tuesday - Plenty of Angling interest too  https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/about-us/committees/local-access-forum/broads-local-access-forum-2-september-2020

With  reasonable internet speed its easy to set up & watch & listen with one click! 

[vanessan]

51 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

How long before humans continued rubbing up against nature on the broads gets more erased and buffered and, here is the point, our boating activities starts to get really relegated in the interests nature welfare?

Mooring spots removed, rights of way not maintained and wild moorings restricted by a very powerful lobby?

Aren’t we beginning to see that now? Bit by bit I think it’s happening, certainly those mentioned in your last sentence.

[RealWindmill]

Saw my first copy of the 2020 BA Broadcaster paper today - (first visit to a Broads Info Office this year.)

On the cover underneath the advertising headline of " Guide to The Broads National Park " is a photo of Herringfleet Mill, the very mill we were discussing earlier in this thread after it appeared on the Countryfile programme.

It is a fine photo and shows the mill in pristine condition with a full set of sails. Unfortunately the mill has not looked like that for many years. it is more delapidated these days and two of those sails have lain rotting on the ground alongside for at least the last two years - probably longer.

Is this the way the BA are having to advertise the "Broads NP " these days ? By using historical photos showing scenes and buildings from when they were in their prime instead of in their current condition.

They could equally show moorings free of piles of rubbish by using archive photos, instead of the current reality we all know.

Rose tinted glasses ?  False advertising ?

 

I'm not anti BA per se. Overall I feel they do more good than not - but they do like making a rod for their own back sometimes.

 

[marshman]

To be fair, if it was the BA's responsibility to restore mill (pumps) even doubling the tolls would be insufficient to make a dent, except over a large number of years!!! My guess, for what it is worth, that if you allocated say £500k per mill, even that would not be enough, but perhaps worse than that, I question from what I know, the skill set to do anything really significant, has now largely gone. Sadly!!

[RealWindmill]

Fair comment Marshy, but to be fair my point was not whether they could or should restore it but more whether it is correct for them to advertise their NP with outdated historical and therefore misleading photos of how the Broads is today.

[marshman]

It cannot be that old - it was not that long ago the arms were intact! I won't guess as you probably know precisely! 

I suppose using that premise, it would be wrong to show an autumnal picture, as in the summer there are many more boats around - not sure you can call a photo less than 10yrs old , historical though!!!

[RealWindmill]

Yes MM, I do know fairly precisely - that being my neck of the woods and part of one of my regular dog walks.

The point is that the BA are using that photo as part of the front page of the Broadcaster read by many far and wide with the headline banner promoting the advertising slogan "Broads National Park".  They are showing a structure in pristine condition which does not look like that in 2020, nor has it for several years. 

If that photo helps sell the Broads as a holiday destination then all well and good , but it is untruthful and, as I mentioned before, if they show photos of moorings taken in the past without piles of rubbish where now there is, is that acceptable marketing strategy also?  Visitors will soon see the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RealWindmill said:

If that photo helps sell the Broads as a holiday destination then all well and good , but it is untruthful and, as I mentioned before, if they show photos of moorings taken in the past without piles of rubbish where now there is, is that acceptable marketing strategy also?  Visitors will soon see the truth.

I think you’ve rather missed the whole point of marketing. 
 

Perhaps you would be happy with truthful slogans like: The Broads! More fun if it’s not raining!

 

Or: The Broads! Some people have a good time! Others.... not so much  

 

Or perhaps: Life is hard and then you die and your boat probably won’t break down!

[JennyMorgan]

7 hours ago, batrabill said:

I think you’ve rather missed the whole point of marketing. 

Can we trust marketing? In one word, NO!

We can be confident that 'half price' will actually be a lie, that the price will have been heavily inflated prior to being halved, for example.

Manipulating the truth and reality leads to distrust, there are obvious local examples. It is not just marketeers that we distrust, politicians and particular senior public servants at both local and national level probably head what is fast becoming a despicable list. 

 

 

[RealWindmill]

So BB, if I'm trying to sell you my car and send you a photo of it when it came out of the showroom and you then drive perhaps hundreds of miles and find it a scratched and dented car I don't think you would be best pleased.

So that's OK advertising is it ?

Yes I would prefer a more truthful approach to something I spend my hard earned money on  Be it holiday or goods. I'm sure Joe Public would as well.

[JennyMorgan]

We have at local level a farcical  situation where one particular untruth has been allowed by the Court provided it is for marketing purposes. That fact does not just devalue marketing but also the credibility of our legal system and, in particular, the driving force behind that regrettable untruth. Marketeers have a lot to answer for.  A wholly truthful approach would be very much appreciated.