Broads Quality Of The Water

[Andrewcook]

As to having the Toilet Tanks being  installed in all Boats has the quality of the Water around the Broads now Improved ? Here's this example Coltishall being at the end of the River has got very good clear water but how does this come about?

[FairTmiddlin]

When I was a lad ( back in 1900 and dot) you could stand on Haven bridge and watch the floatable parts head out towards the North sea. Hence we never used to go anywhere near the sea in Yarmouth or Gorleston.

Most of the nutrients in the rivers now come from marsh water pumped into the rivers, or poorly maintained sewage works.

[marshman]

And of course from everyone insisting on having showers 3 times a day!!!

Replaced one type of pollutant with another! A reason why many new boats on the hire fleets are fitted with grey water tanks which take all the washing up, shower water etc etc. Less visible than the floating variety but still  a difficult pollutant to deal with. 

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

Here's this example Coltishall being at the end of the River has got very good clear water but how does this come about?

Although the Broads has a tide coming in and out through Yarmouth, the river Bure also has headwaters above Coltishall right to the other side of Alysham, which are constantly flowing down river. The same thing happens in Norwich, where the Wensum flows over the weir at New Mills and the upper reaches of the Yare come in at Trowse Eye.  Also the Waveney, from Geldeston Lock up beyond Bungay.

This is why the ebb tide on these rivers is almost always stronger than the flood.

[TheQ]

When the broads boats were forced to have sewage tanks, it actually didn't make that much difference. The improvements to the Sewage works and the reduction in waste / fertilizer from farms made the most difference..

It's very noticeable in the last 10 years the clarity of water has improved everywhere, it used to be you only saw the bottom of the dykes in mid winter. Now you can see the bottom all year round..

This has a disadvantage... weed.. Black Horse Broad never had weed in the last 40 years, and the river through Horning is lined with lilies. This is catching on sailing boats rudders and keels and clogging water inlets on Motorboats..

Hickling broad and the way to it is particularly bad for weed.

[Andrewcook]

Here's this interesting new The Government in Holland are now asking Farmers not to pollote the water from Spraying and other elements going in to the water . As this is why Green algae comes about I think ? 

[Bikertov]

It surprised me to learn that boats on the Great Ouse don't need to have holding tanks, and can discharge from sea toilets straight into the river 

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

Here's this interesting new The Government in Holland are now asking Farmers not to pollote the water from Spraying and other elements going in to the water.   As this is why Green algae comes about I think ? 

In which case Holland, for once, is a long way behind Norfolk.  It has been recognised here for over 40 years that nitrate enrichment of the water from farm fertilisers is a large contributor to river water pollution.

I see sewage is in the news again this week.  Apparently we are not allowed to have effluent outfalls into the sea any more.  So what do they want us to do with it?  Leave it out in a recycling bin, to be collected now and again, if you're lucky?

[FairTmiddlin]

Most of the problem is that most of the country is still using Victorian sewers. Where rainwater and effluent run together, when a down pour occurs the sewage plants cannot cope with the amount of both combined. Hence every hard rain the floodgates are opened.

Privatization of the water companies came at the wrong time as there were plans afoot to dual the systems taking away the rainwater element straight into filtration then the rivers. Most motorways are now built with this type of ground filtration ponds.

[annv]

In Victorian times no body new about the water table being depleted by flushing all down the rivers, now new houses have soakaways or storm drains and old houses are demolished it will gradually be reduced, be very expensive and invasive to dig up all the foot paths to redirect the rain water pipes to the road drains, or build big ponds to hold it all until it can be treated, dont tell the greens other wise they will be gluing them selves to your street. John

[BroadAmbition]

I have certainly noticed over the years how much the clarity has improved, especially the northern rivers, even with high volume of boat traffic the Bure in Wroxham is much clearer.  In winter with less boat traffic right down to Horning is clear most days, never used to be the case.  I am also seeing more and more lilies on the waters edge, as we know Lilies won't perform well in polluted water.  Lilies & weeds never seems to bother 'B.A's prop / rudder or her filters

Griff

[Smoggy]

Most of southern waters are just brown unless near the ends of navigation, mind you the whole of the east coast is like that so not surprising.

It's mostly just silt in suspension.

[TheQ]

New cities Like MK the road drains go into the streams and rivers, just house waste into the sewers. Some of the parks in MK are classed as wet /dry, that is they are normally dry, but fill up with water at times to slow the flow into the rivers.

If you look at the NDR, the road water drains off the side into the ground / leads into waterways no hard kerbs keeping the water into drains.. there are wet dry drainage ponds to take the excess. 

With the change in the rules, the water companies are going to have to spend a lot of money diverting rainwater out of sewage systems..

That money will come from ...

You.

 

[BroadAmbition]

Agreed but long term better for the environment and ultimately us too

Griff

[Vaughan]

Do you remember the big sewage outfall at Whitlingham, by Postwick Grove, when big "icebergs" of foam would float off down the river on the ebb tide?  I was out rowing in a scull one day and rowed right into one of those, without seeing it ahead of me.  The whole world suddenly went white all around me!

[Mouldy]

22 hours ago, TheQ said:

With the change in the rules, the water companies are going to have to spend a lot of money diverting rainwater out of sewage systems..

That money will come from ...

You.

 

Hmmmm.  Sorry, soapbox time again!!  I would imagine that investment in the system will be kept to a minimum, to ensure maximum profits to the shareholders.  I cannot see how, as an island race surrounded by water, we have water shortages regularly in some areas and others have more water than they know what to do with.  It’s about time that there was a national grid as there is with electricity.  Obviously, it would require a massive investment and be a huge civil engineering project, but it would be worthwhile and possible alleviate some of the flooding we regularly see in some areas and droughts we see in others.

Soapbox away again (for the time being).

[marshman]

A good guidance as to water quality is the lilies!! The white ones require a higher water quality and you continue to see them spread across the system - years ago you rarely saw yellow ones let alone white ones!

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Do you remember the big sewage outfall at Whitlingham, by Postwick Grove, when big "icebergs" of foam would float off down the river on the ebb tide?  I was out rowing in a scull one day and rowed right into one of those, without seeing it ahead of me.  The whole world suddenly went white all around me!

At least the world didn't go BROWN all around you ...

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, Mouldy said:

Hmmmm.  Sorry, soapbox time again!!  I would imagine that investment in the system will be kept to a minimum, to ensure maximum profits to the shareholders.  I cannot see how, as an island race surrounded by water, we have water shortages regularly in some areas and others have more water than they know what to do with.  It’s about time that there was a national grid as there is with electricity.  Obviously, it would require a massive investment and be a huge civil engineering project, but it would be worthwhile and possible alleviate some of the flooding we regularly see in some areas and droughts we see in others.

Soapbox away again (for the time being).

Yes, we are an island race surrounded by water. 

But the argument will be "it is the wrong kind of water" !

[Mouldy]

6 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Yes, we are an island race surrounded by water. 

But the argument will be "it is the wrong kind of water" !

Desalination.  It’s done in other countries and I know it’s expensive, but it’s a way to avoid water shortages.  As I said, the process involves investment, but as with other industries, we in this country seem to show a reticence to invest and leave it to others to do it for us.

[Bikertov]

Joking aside (and I do find that difficult ...) I might be wrong, but think the main cost of desalination is the power required ?

As by definition you are on the coast for desalination, you could use tidal power - Win-Win as they say.

[Keebz]

On 26/10/2021 at 22:07, marshman said:

And of course from everyone insisting on having showers 3 times a day!!!

Replaced one type of pollutant with another! A reason why many new boats on the hire fleets are fitted with grey water tanks which take all the washing up, shower water etc etc. Less visible than the floating variety but still  a difficult pollutant to deal with. 

I no it’s not a final solution regarding washing water but I have started using biodegradable soaps and washing up soaps on the boat until I eventually fit bigger waste tanks to take grey water the soaps are not as good but combine this with shore showers and toilets when available it might make a small difference 

[Keebz]

On 27/10/2021 at 18:59, BroadAmbition said:

I have certainly noticed over the years how much the clarity has improved, especially the northern rivers, even with high volume of boat traffic the Bure in Wroxham is much clearer.  In winter with less boat traffic right down to Horning is clear most days, never used to be the case.  I am also seeing more and more lilies on the waters edge, as we know Lilies won't perform well in polluted water.  Lilies & weeds never seems to bother 'B.A's prop / rudder or her filters

 

[Vaughan]

4 hours ago, Keebz said:

the soaps are not as good but combine this with shore showers and toilets when available it might make a small difference 

It makes an enormous difference!

I have experience of European waterways as well as the Broads. 

The damage caused by household detergents is far worse than human sewage ever was in the first place!  There is proof of this, going right back to the first serious studies, that were done in the 60's on the Broads.

Riverside shops and sensible boatyards all sell biodegradable washing up liquid and shower gel.  Always use it, and you will make a big difference!

[Smoggy]

Even with sewerage it's likely to be all the cleaners that go down the loo that do the worst damage.