Who Builds Most Boats

[Andrewcook]

What Boat yards Build New Boats is it Herbert Woods / Barnes Brinks or Richardson's as they got the facilities to building New Boats or do they buy them in from a firm who Builds New Boats On Thier behalf for the Broads

[Oddfellow]

Barnes is probably the most prolific currently. HW have built a lot of smaller craft over the last few years too. Richardsons has closed it's new-build programme. Horning Pleasure Craft is starting building and we can't ignore Len Funnel for his long-term building programme of various new designs across three boatyard outfits over the last decade. In terms of sheer design choice, I suspect Len has the most styles in most recent years. 

 

 

[andyg]

As far as woods new small compact boats are concerned, I'm a fan I've hired both versions the picnic boat and the cruiser. They are a great little boat for a day out and the compact cruiser is more then comfy for a week's holiday. Very economic nanni engine a 410 I believe. Fitted out very well slightly small shower room but you'd expect that on a boat this size. After hiring one a really can see why they are so popular. They have got the pricing right as well in my opinion. I'm told there are more planned with Ruby light 2 sitting in the build shed virtually finished. 

[DAVIDH]

Apart from the above, Silverline produce one or two new boats per year. Perhaps Brooms too?

[Captain]

Good question.

I can't say how many private boats are built by the yards however I have totted up the approximate new builds introduced by each yard for hire in their own fleet between 2011 and 2021 for yards that come to mind. Remember however that some yards subcontract out building to other yards for example a large proportion of Barnes recent classes were built by Brooms and Silverline. Ferry had some from Haines etc

Richardsons 35 (stopped building in 2019)

Faircraft(Nbd) 29

Barnes 28

Brooms 24

Herbert Woods 18 (plus 9 day cruisers)

Ferry Marina 14 ( plus 5 at Waveney River Centre and day Cruisers)

Silverline 5 

Swancraft 4

Neil

 

[Vaughan]

So that is a total of 134, or around 14 a year over 10 years, in a total fleet of around 700 (so they say).

That means every boat will have a life of over 45 years on hire before it is replaced, assuming the total number stays the same.

We are not going to see electric boats taking over very quickly at that rate, I don't suppose!

[Oddfellow]

13 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

Apart from the above, Silverline produce one or two new boats per year. Perhaps Brooms too?

Officially, Broom has closed its building shops. Unofficially, it still builds boats, just not as many. It was working on a couple of Explorers earlier in the year. Silverline has mould tools for smaller boats itself, but larger cruisers (28 ft plus) it had been buying mouldings from Alpha (now Barnes). 

[andyg]

Considering the current hire fleet size, that's a fairly reasonable build rate. I wonder if the recent staycation trend will continue into 22. From a customers veiw point, I personally feel we are reaching if we haven't already the top end of sustainable hire tariffs. We have booked a week in September next year. The 3 boats we considered were Dazzling light ( fully booked for 22 ) Commander and Broads harmony. Commander came in @ £2800 broads harmony was £700 pound cheaper. We are a group of 4 adults, two company directors a transport manager and NHS nurse. Money wasn't the issue but value for money was/ is. We all felt at nearly 3k for a week commander just dosent offer value for money when you consider the overall experience and I explain why we feel like that. Obviously the biggest issues are to do with the facilities or the lack of them to be perfectly Frank. Moorings in the North with such a large boat are an absolute nightmare. Then if your lucky enough to moor at your chosen location you then discover there is nowhere to plug your boat into the shore power you were told you could. You dare not start your engine outside of accepted hours for the fears of upsetting someone regardless of the temperature outside. ( we don't all enjoy memories of damp cold holidays a float ) every time you pull upto a pub the mooring guy is there in a flash with his hand out wanting a tenner. These are just a couple of the negatives our friends noticed whilst on holiday this year on the northern rivers. I've promised them things will be different on the southen rivers which we will be visiting next year, God I hope I'm right lol. I always chat to as many boaters as I can when I'm afloat and I know our friends are not the only ones that felt this way. The actual experience of being afloat is marvelous and incredibly relaxing, but so much work is need on the infrastructure, absolutely no bloody point in building boat with all the latest technologies if you can't use them, I mean what's the point. 

[Vaughan]

57 minutes ago, andyg said:

The actual experience of being afloat is marvelous and incredibly relaxing, but so much work is need on the infrastructure, absolutely no bloody point in building boat with all the latest technologies if you can't use them, I mean what's the point. 

I couldn't agree more!

[Smoggy]

Your are spot on andyg, even on a mere 30 foot boat during the summer months I want to turn back south within 48 hours of heading north, the beer prices go up for the season too which I don't like, at least on the south the prices stay the same and there's usually a mooring (leccy often not available though but I don't need it often during summer) where you aim for and the pubs mostly don't charge for them.

Some are worth a call ahead to book a spot in busy times and they will put a reserved board out for you.

Southern broads is more relaxed I find, just be careful with the tides, if done right they can help you in.

[Broads01]

4 hours ago, andyg said:

From a customers veiw point, I personally feel we are reaching if we haven't already the top end of sustainable hire tariffs. We have booked a week in September next year. The

I agree Andy. I hope the "staycation" boom doesn't drag on beyond next year and competition from holidays abroad pushes prices back.

[BroadAmbition]

The actual experience of being afloat is marvelous and incredibly relaxing, but so much work is need on the infrastructure, absolutely no bloody point in building boat with all the latest technologies if you can't use them, I mean what's the point. 

Cracking post there Andyg - Spot on   

Griff

[SwanR]

23 hours ago, andyg said:

I personally feel we are reaching if we haven't already the top end of sustainable hire tariffs.

We are definitely starting to feel priced out of our Broads holidays. Just not prepared to pay this kind of money. When we started hiring back in 2012 we had holidays in June for several years. Now the Broads is feeling too expensive to be our summer holiday. And not as relaxing as it was. October was busy this year which leaves us with March. I don’t really want nothing but winter holidays so we’re starting to look elsewhere. 

[Mouldy]

24 minutes ago, SwanR said:

We are definitely starting to feel priced out of our Broads holidays. Just not prepared to pay this kind of money. When we started hiring back in 2012 we had holidays in June for several years. Now the Broads is feeling too expensive to be our summer holiday. And not as relaxing as it was. October was busy this year which leaves us with March. I don’t really want nothing but winter holidays so we’re starting to look elsewhere. 

Try to find a half share in a syndicate boat Jean.  Our half share in Moonlight Shadow gives us a spring week and a summer week for around £900 per year.  Obviously, there’s the initial buy in cost, but whenever you want to sell, you should get your money back.

We keep it essentially for our son and his family, who use the summer week, but the spring week next year starts on 30th April, so we plan to use that and take some friends with us.  £450 plus fuel and pump out is cheap for a week on a decent boat, especially these days.

[andyg]

31 minutes ago, SwanR said:

We are definitely starting to feel priced out of our Broads holidays. Just not prepared to pay this kind of money. When we started hiring back in 2012 we had holidays in June for several years. Now the Broads is feeling too expensive to be our summer holiday. And not as relaxing as it was. October was busy this year which leaves us with March. I don’t really want nothing but winter holidays so we’re starting to look elsewhere. 

Absolutely, our week afloat this October was as busy as any week during the summer holidays. 

[andyg]

3 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Try to find a half share in a syndicate boat Jean.  Our half share in Moonlight Shadow gives us a spring week and a summer week for around £900 per year.  Obviously, there’s the initial buy in cost, but whenever you want to sell, you should get your money back.

We keep it essentially for our son and his family, who use the summer week, but the spring week next year starts on 30th April, so we plan to use that and take some friends with us.  £450 plus fuel and pump out is cheap for a week on a decent boat, especially these days.

I've often thought about buying into a syndicate and a few years back I nearly talked my brother and sister into buying our own boat. Sadly as far as ownership is concerned we just wouldn't of used it enough to justify the cost ( we all enjoy our trips abroad to much ) but now covid is here and with the ever-changing restrictions and no sign of this pandemic disappearing soon, I may re vist the idea of ownership with my siblings next September when we are all aboard together. I'm taking early retirement in January my brother retired this year and my sister wants out of her career so maybe now is the time. Time will tell.

[Mouldy]

13 minutes ago, andyg said:

I've often thought about buying into a syndicate and a few years back I nearly talked my brother and sister into buying our own boat. Sadly as far as ownership is concerned we just wouldn't of used it enough to justify the cost ( we all enjoy our trips abroad to much ) but now covid is here and with the ever-changing restrictions and no sign of this pandemic disappearing soon, I may re vist the idea of ownership with my siblings next September when we are all aboard together. I'm taking early retirement in January my brother retired this year and my sister wants out of her career so maybe now is the time. Time will tell.

Which is why so many people have got into ownership since the start of the pandemic.  Decent craft are still selling quickly and the prices seem to still be high.  Look at the brokers websites and even now, at the end of the season, a good many are showing as ‘sale agreed’ or ‘sold.’  Even syndicate shares, which were sticking with falling prices in some cases, have generally sold out.

Forming your own syndicate with friends and relatives may be the way to go, but make sure you know what will happen to a share if anyone wants to pull out.  Good luck, if you decide to go ahead.  I can honestly say that we have no regrets about buying Norfolk Lady, despite some of the issues we’ve had along the way.  The knowledge that we can have weekends or holidays whenever we like is great!

[SwanR]

Hmmm ... we have thought about a syndicate. But the boats that are currently there don't suit our needs ... an island bed being one of them. We thought about Thunder but apart from not needing a boat as big as that, the helm position doesn't work for tall people! Ah well ... that's the thing about having moved here. We can take a last minute break more easily so maybe our patterns of leisure time will change. I want to work for a few more years yet if I can so annual leave is limited. But a weekend I could do without needing to take more than a half day ... hand the boat back for 8.30 and be home and at work by 9. :)

[DAVIDH]

2 hours ago, andyg said:

Absolutely, our week afloat this October was as busy as any week during the summer holidays. 

it would have been Andy, as the same number of hire boats were out. However, I don't see that being the same for 2022, as I feel the uncertain weather in October will definitely make people consider a holiday abroad again (subject to Covid not coming back to bite us). Lateral flow tests after you arrive home, are much less a dampener to business than not being sure you can board your return flight due to a failed test in resort.  I think the pricing may take time to catch up with this trend tthough. 

[Captain]

I think forward bookings are looking good so far for 22 although I suspect with the opening up of foreign travel we are no longer looking at full capacity next year. On a positive side there should be a few returnees from the staycation boom of 20/21.

I too have noticed a fairly substantial increase in prices including what I would call value yards, I just hope we don't kill the golden goose as Andy has described with high prices and relatively poor infrastructure.

Looking at the numbers I quoted earlier for new boats these are slightly skewed as for exampl Nbd introduced 11 in 2011, Swan no longer build for hire, Richardsons have stopped building. Brooms haven't introduced any new hire boats since 2019 although still build for other people and Ferry's new build for 21 is being sold to the private market. On a positive note Horning Pleasurecraft are building now however realistically we are looking at a build rate of no more than a 10 a year for the hire fleets out of 620 boats allowing for a fall of 40 from Sanderson's and Richardsons etc.

Neil

 

[RS2021]

We too have booked for next year and noticed a substantial price rise. Can probably just about stomach it for one year as all UK self catering seems to be going the same way, but if prices don't drop substantially the following year I can see a lot of trouble ahead, especially once foreign travel is fully open again. My fear is that this may happen next year making yards offer discounts for later bookings leaving those of us who booked early paying higher prices. A sure was for yards to doubly put off regular customers.

[C.Ricko]

44 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

We too have booked for next year and noticed a substantial price rise. Can probably just about stomach it for one year as all UK self catering seems to be going the same way, but if prices don't drop substantially the following year I can see a lot of trouble ahead, especially once foreign travel is fully open again. My fear is that this may happen next year making yards offer discounts for later bookings leaving those of us who booked early paying higher prices. A sure was for yards to doubly put off regular customers.

its called 'Fluid Pricing' it was recently introduced to Boating, personally I feel that if you have someone prepared to put their trust in you and book a year in advance then its a bit rude to have the same holiday later sold at a lesser rate, I do not think it is healthy for the industry and encourages last minute booking which is dangerous,  that's why I came up with the Fair price charter (in my last job) that's been stopped now but its something Horning Pleasurecraft works to even though we have not advertised it. I do reserve the right to put prices up though,

[andyg]

15 minutes ago, C.Ricko said:

its called 'Fluid Pricing' it was recently introduced to Boating, personally I feel that if you have someone prepared to put their trust in you and book a year in advance then its a bit rude to have the same holiday later sold at a lesser rate, I do not think it is healthy for the industry and encourages last minute booking which is dangerous,  that's why I came up with the Fair price charter (in my last job) that's been stopped now but its something Horning Pleasurecraft works to even though we have not advertised it. I do reserve the right to put prices up though,

I believe stellios of EasyJet fame imported the so called fluid pricing structure into the uk from the states,after he had spent time @ south Western airline on the lead up to EasyJet launch. But the less about him the better...

[RS2021]

Where fluid pricing is used customers do get used to it and behave accordingly - leave booking late. I agree it will be dangerous for businesses like Broads hire businesses. I think if companies are tempted to do it, they need also to offer something for loyal customers who book early. One canal hire company I've used gives up to 25% discounts to regular customers who book early. This will allow them to also use fluid pricing and not upset regular customers. Fluid pricing is of course easier with the internet where you don't publish prices in a brochure and can change them by the hour! I'm glad there are still businesses like yours Clive who still value trust. I'll keep an eye on your growing fleet and may book with you in the future.

[RS2021]

7 minutes ago, andyg said:

I believe stellios of EasyJet fame imported the so called fluid pricing structure into the uk from the states,after he had spent time @ south Western airline on the lead up to EasyJet launch. But the less about him the better...

Interestingly the model used in the low cost airline business is to discount for early bookers to fill a plane and cover your costs. You then charge late bookers higher prices to make your profit.