New Desiel Rules

[ExSurveyor]

Governments have no money of their own, they allocate our money that is collected by a variety of means.

Unless you happen to be live in a country with untold wealth under your feet, then they sometimes collect less and allocate more.

I am off to Norway.

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, ExSurveyor said:

The extra take from fuel duty caused by the recent increases is 4p, the corresponding increase in the VAT take is 1p,

All that is needed now if for the forecourts to pass on the savings they will make from the reduced cost fuel they will be buying now. It is the cost of fuel they ordered over the last month that we will carry on paying for, hopefully, short term.

As soon as Aldi and Morrisons reduce theirs the others will follow. Well that is the theory.

VAT is applied to many things that have increased in price dramatically over the past few months.  Although the rate on heating fuels is lower than standard rate, the increase in price of gas and electricity will increase the funds to the exchequer, not to mention price rises for clothes, diy products etc.  

The 5p reduction in fuel duty isn’t going to go far when my fuel (gas and electric) bill has risen from £84 per month to £192 and that’s just the start of it.

[floydraser]

Nobody has mentioned shortages of heating fuels, it's just that those who have it can charge more for it and that's a global thing, not HMG's fault.

 

[ExSurveyor]

My local shell garage increased the price of diesel by 4 p at lunch time. I won’t be going there again.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Another money scam from our lovely Government..  

Watch the prices on the 1st April rocket up big time when certain industries will not be able to use Red diesel anymore.. Quite a few companies will fold over this..

The Farming industry will suffer.. even tho there still aloud to use Red.. 

Sad state of affairs.. Worse to come.. 

 

 

[BroadAmbition]

Fuel stations around here increased their prices yesterday and today by 5p in readiness for the forthcoming cut in fuel duty. 

It's about time we had an independent national fuel regulator that has some real teeth

Griff

[dnks34]

We live in a greedy cash hungry world and it gets worse as time goes on.  
 

Anything we cant live without is fair game for price gouging, fuels, rents now gas and electricity.  
 

It hasn't always been this way.  

[BrundallNavy]

 Diesel in Horning is now £1.75 per litre how does that work with a 60 -40 split. I could buy road diesel cheaper than that and pay full duty.  Is this profiteering or something else going on. 

[TheQ]

Boat yards don't have the through put of a road garage, they have to pay more for the fuel themselves as they buy much less, and because they sell less, the costs have to be divided buy the fewer gallons sold..

[BroadAmbition]

My local fuel station, yesterday diesel was at £1:78:9 per Litre. 
 

Today after the 5p tax reduction the price is still £1:78:9

No surprise there then 

Griff

[floydraser]

I've largely given up with local fuel stations. My local Shell place used to be the cheapest around here until a new franchisee took over. So much for supporting your local businesses, it's now cheaper to travel further to one of the big supermarkets.

[dnks34]

What about this as a scenario

The fuel duty cut isn’t reflected in the price by retailers and when the fuel duty is increased again the 5p cut is added on to the price that was never reduced anyway meaning Mr Sunak has actually set the stage for a 5p increase in the future.

They must think we are all daft!

In seriousness I have read in the press retailers wont show the cut for a while as the fuel they have in stock will be liable for the full rate of duty.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

They are always quick to pass on any increase but slow to pass on reductions.

[floydraser]

So as I am very bored I have gone into over thinking (but still cynical) mode: The tanker turns up at the forecourt with a delivery of 10,000 litres. They dip the tank in the ground and there is 2,000 litres left over. So, the next 2,000 litres should be sold with old rate of duty then the price comes down. 

But, there are two types of petrol and two types of diesel on sale so the prices should all change independently of each other as they get sold at different rates. Therefore you could go in to buy diesel and find the price is pretty close to petrol. 

How come I have never seen this happen??? 

[Meantime]

I think you'll find the 58p per litre duty is the same for petrol and diesel and is charged or collected by the forecourt not the distributer. The chancellor reduced the duty from 6pm last night so any forecourt which didn't reduce their price has added a 5p increase, because they will only be passing on 53p per litre on any sale from then on.

[Bikertov]

I understood that the duty is collected on a sale of fuel to the end customer, at the rate applicable at the time of sale, not when it is put in the storage tanks.

So the fuel in the storage tanks has not had duty paid on it, as it is not yet sold.

 

[dnks34]

As usual the press are talking rubbish then 

[Meantime]

I'm also surprised the chancellor didn't make more of the fact its a 6p per litre cut not 5p per litre. VAT at 20% is added to the final price which includes the fuel duty, cost of fuel and retailers profit. Therefore a 5p reduction in duty also leads to a 1p cut in VAT if the duty reduction is passed on.

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

I'm also surprised the chancellor didn't make more of the fact its a 6p per litre cut not 5p per litre. VAT at 20% is added to the final price which includes the fuel duty, cost of fuel and retailers profit. Therefore a 5p reduction in duty also leads to a 1p cut in VAT if the duty reduction is passed on.

Given that VAT is applied to plenty of other products, the net increase of tax to the treasury will be enormous.  For example, I bought loft boards from B&Q last year and a pack of three was £8.  They now cost £13 per pack.  I can’t be bothered to work out the exact amounts, based on net prices, but a £5 increase in price will result in close to an additional £1 to the exchequer.  Multiply these price increases across the board, food, materials, fuels, clothing etc. the amount additional money that will be collected in extra VAT is enormous.

[dnks34]

On 24/03/2022 at 16:01, Bikertov said:

I understood that the duty is collected on a sale of fuel to the end customer, at the rate applicable at the time of sale, not when it is put in the storage tanks.

So the fuel in the storage tanks has not had duty paid on it, as it is not yet sold.

 

According to the RAC fuel duty is levied on the wholesale cost of fuel, what the retailer pays for it and not what the customer pays to put it in their tank

[Oddfellow]

I am surprised that the fuel deposits haven't increased yet. The cost of fuel has rocketed in recent weeks and although it may have settled, it has done so at an exorbitant rate that may be unsustainable for all-inclusive operators and is likely to give returning holidaymakers a nasty shock when asked for more money to cover their usage. 

This year, we may think the pandemic is behind us and act like we used to, but many of us will soon be priced out of things like Sunday Drives, pub trips and even fish and chips as the cost of cooking oils has rocketed too. I read a headline that fish and chip shops are very worried as this is the perfect storm for them - Gas & Electric up hugely and now the oils they use for frying and, obviously the wholesale cost of fish too as you don't catch Cod without Diesel. 

Strap in folks. It's going to be a long and bumpy ride. 

 

[floydraser]

I think I posted elsewhere that on 11th March someone (Sky news via the radio?) was quoted as saying that supplies and the effect of the war had stabilised, and we could expect fuel prices to level off or even drop. Cheapest diesel was around £1.63/lt at the time...

I'm convinced we are being ripped off big time, and we are now paying for the pandemic as business claws back it's losses with stealth. I remember diesel being around £1.20/lt just after lockdown and thought it was a bit too good to be maintainable.

Rugby Services J1 M6 Deisel £1.93.5/lt. Drive 1/2 mile down to Tescos Rugby £1.69/lt. 

[Mouldy]

1 minute ago, floydraser said:

I think I posted elsewhere that on 11th March someone (Sky news via the radio?) was quoted as saying that supplies and the effect of the war had stabilised, and we could expect fuel prices to level off or even drop. Cheapest diesel was around £1.63/lt at the time...

I'm convinced we are being ripped off big time, and we are now paying for the pandemic as business claws back it's losses with stealth. I remember diesel being around £1.20/lt just after lockdown and thought it was a bit too good to be maintainable.

Rugby Services J1 M6 Deisel £1.93.5/lt. Drive 1/2 mile down to Tescos Rugby £1.69/lt. 

That’s if you can get diesel.  We seem to be struggling at the moment, probably due to those idle environmentalists that seem to think that we can stop using fossil fuels at the drop of a hat by barricading fuel depots. 😡. There can’t be many people that still think that there’s no environmental damage being done now and realise that something needs to be done.  Whatever the solution, it will take time.

It’s strange that the same folk who want us to do something now, protest about all other ways to generate power.  Solar farms are unsightly and cover acres of valuable agricultural land that could be used to grow crops, wind farms are unsightly and kill unsuspecting birds, nuclear power generation is potentially dangerous and the mere though of using the power of the sea in the form of barriers across tidal estuaries raises more environmental concerns.  There seems to be an environmental issue raised over all alternatives.

It seems to me that some folk need to grow up and realise that our modern lives depend on transportation of goods, as well as sustaining our general way of life, which is reliant on power whichever way it’s generated.

As for the protesters that think stopping working folk from going about their lawful business, I can think of several ways that I’d like to deal with them! 🤨

[grendel]

exactly, locally environmentalists were protesting at the use of a local coal/ oil fired power station, they were saying why was it allowed to continue polluting the environment, well the reason was those same environmentalists 5 years previous had effectively stopped its replacement gas fired power station being built, so the old coal fired station had to keep running 10 years past its due closure date to keep the electricity supplies flowing.

its like the electric car brigade who insist that I need to replace my diesel car with an electric one, despite there being no charging facilities at my home (and unlikely to be without new electrical infrastructure) no charging facilities where I work (ditto re the infrastructure) no chargers at local supermarkets (the nearest charge point is a 10 minute drive), and 124 miles per day commute. its ok, but why cant you be bothered to spend 5 minutes plugging in overnight was they argument, ignoring the where. stop off at a motorway services they said (to join the queue for the few charge points at the one services I pass  and then wait 5 hours for the car to fully charge) you dont need to plug in every day, the cars have a 250 mile range (almost exactly 2 days run- as long as i dont need heating lights or use any other electric, and that I get perfect traffic)

These people have to accept that electric is not the solution for everyone at this time, rather than try and force an unworkable solution on everyone just to appease their ways.

[Mouldy]

7 minutes ago, grendel said:

exactly, locally environmentalists were protesting at the use of a local coal/ oil fired power station, they were saying why was it allowed to continue polluting the environment, well the reason was those same environmentalists 5 years previous had effectively stopped its replacement gas fired power station being built, so the old coal fired station had to keep running 10 years past its due closure date to keep the electricity supplies flowing.

Under the current circumstances, perhaps not running on gas is a benefit!!  In my opinion, the only way to produce the level of electricity that we require is to go nuclear.  That said, not many of us will want a nuclear power station in our neighbourhood, but it surely depends on how we want to live?  The decision to build them should have been made years ago, but constant pontification and a reluctance to invest in the future of our ‘great’ country has resulted in dependence on gas , for which we will now suffer the financial consequences.

13 minutes ago, grendel said:

These people have to accept that electric is not the solution for everyone at this time, rather than try and force an unworkable solution on everyone just to appease their ways.

And I wonder how many of these idealistic folk actually stop and think of the immediate consequences to their lifestyles if banning fossil fuels were to happen in the near future.  I’m sure none of them want to go back to living in cold home with no technology, no clothes, hunting for food, no lights, cooking over a fire (maybe not good for the environment either).  Do they look around and actually see what we use on an everyday basis that hasn’t been delivered by road?  I also wonder by what means they arrived at the fuel depots to protest.  Did they all walk or cycle?

19 minutes ago, grendel said:

its like the electric car brigade who insist that I need to replace my diesel car with an electric one, despite there being no charging facilities at my home (and unlikely to be without new electrical infrastructure) no charging facilities where I work (ditto re the infrastructure) no chargers at local supermarkets (the nearest charge point is a 10 minute drive), and 124 miles per day commute. its ok, but why cant you be bothered to spend 5 minutes plugging in overnight was they argument, ignoring the where. stop off at a motorway services they said (to join the queue for the few charge points at the one services I pass  and then wait 5 hours for the car to fully charge) you dont need to plug in every day, the cars have a 250 mile range (almost exactly 2 days run- as long as i dont need heating lights or use any other electric, and that I get perfect traffic)

Never mind electric cars.  What about the road haulage industry.  It will surely be many years before there is an infrastructure to support the number of trucks on the road if they were all to be electric.  How many high output charge points will need to be on motorway service stations to recharge them?  It won’t happen.  Where I worked before I retired, our vehicles were double and sometimes treble shifted, covering 500 miles or more a day.  Sadly, there is far too little investment or urgency to ever achieve what the government wants by 2030.

Ill put my soapbox away now.  Rant over!