I Have Just Been Clobbered By One Of Those B * * * * * Hire Boats!

[Vaughan]

How often do we hear this woeful lament, almost like a pibroch on the bagpipes?  In view of some other threads here so far this season, I felt it might help to make clear that all boatyards are very heavily insured against 3rd party damage done by their boats.  As in all things, however, there is a system and if you don't follow it, you might miss out.

There are three things you must do at once:

1/. Get names of any independent witnesses, just in case of a disputed claim (which is rare). Your wife is not an independent witness.  

2/. Inform your own insurers, who will then handle the claim for you.

3/. PHONE THE BOATYARD at once, to report the accident.

This will light up a red light in their reception office to warn them that the hirer of Sea Smuggler 3 (a boat Wussername will remember!) will have to fill in a statement form when they get back in, as there has been an accident reported.  It will be explained to them that they will not have to pay for anything, as they are insured.  If they have paid a security deposit, they will not lose it for damage to another boat : only for the one they have hired.  If you can get that form filled in and signed before the hirers get in their car to go home, then the battle is won.  All the rest is just paperwork.  If not, the hirer will have to be contacted by post and by then, the answer might be that they know nothing about this and refuse to accept it.  This is where the witnesses come in.

I promise you that boatyards will not resist third party claims.  It is not in their interests to make their reputation any worse than it already seems to be!

On the other hand, do not effect any repairs without the authority of the boatyard as their insurers may want an assessor to inspect the damage.  The assessor will then agree the cost of the repairs.

You would be surprised how many private owners and live-aboards all over Europe, get their winter maintenance paid for every year by claiming to have been hit by a hire boat!  My old friend Rip Martins, very well known on the Broads, was the insurance assessor for the Navigators and General.  He knew exactly what to look for!

[Ray]

That's reassuring to know Vaughan, thank you 👍 Mind you it's always going to be a bit traumatic to see one's pride and joy damaged but that's something we can't do anything about!

[Paladin]

45 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I promise you that boatyards will not resist third party claims.  It is not in their interests to make their reputation any worse than it already seems to be!

I can promise you that that is not the case.

14 months ago my moored boat was hit by a hire boat. My wife was on board and was injured, and is still suffering the results of that injury, as well as the boat being damaged. The other boat didn’t stop. 

Despite very clear video evidence of the whole incident (dash cams fitted fore and aft), three independent witness statements, a full admission from the person helming at the time (once he was traced) and a written warning being issued by the Broads Authority, the very-well known, and ‘prestigious’ Broads hire company is STILL contesting the claim.

Fortunately, I have legal assistance insurance, so I have engaged a firm of solicitors to represent me. Otherwise, I hate to think what level of legal costs I would have incurred by now.

[Ray]

Sorry to hear that your wife was hurt, I hope she has fully recovered, it must have been a frightening experience for her.

[Vaughan]

That is a most sad story indeed, for which I have great sympathy.

All I can honestly say is that in my experience in the business (which is a lifetime) it is the only one I have heard of.

I hope there aren't any more out there?  

[FlyingFortress]

Very informative post Vaughan and thank you for detailing the correct procedure. I thought that was what to do but it is good to have it confirmed by an industry insider. 

Like you I do hope that the case detailed by Paladin is the exception rather than the rule.

[SwanR]

Could we please have a description of what to do if clobbered by one of those B****y privately owned boats? Otherwise it’s not a very balanced point of view. And I would have thought potentially harder to deal with in terms of the visibility of hire boat ownership versus finding a private owner. I’m guessing the BA may have to be involved in tracing them?

[Meantime]

Thank you Vaughan for your informative post, but may I tactfully suggest that there is one very important omission which applies regardless of whether you were hit by a hire boat, or a private boat. If they do not stop and exchange details, then in addition to all the above, call the BA. I would also go as far as to say that even if they do stop, if you think there was negligence, drugs or excess alcohol involved then still call the BA.

[Vaughan]

22 minutes ago, Meantime said:

If they do not stop and exchange details, then in addition to all the above, call the BA.

Yes, this is a difficult area!  In my post above I deliberately did not refer to any contact at the scene, between the two parties, since this so often descends into a stressful and pointless confrontation.  It is also quite possible that the hirer of one of these so called "behemoths" didn't even know they had hit something when they went down through Reedham with the tide.

I have always found that it is better, in the long run, to let the boatyard and the insurers sort it out. If in any doubt, get witnesses!

[Ray]

23 minutes ago, SwanR said:

Could we please have a description of what to do if clobbered by one of those B****y privately owned boats? Otherwise it’s not a very balanced point of view. And I would have thought potentially harder to deal with in terms of the visibility of hire boat ownership versus finding a private owner. I’m guessing the BA may have to be involved in tracing them?

That would be the same as a car accident... Exchange names, addresses and insurance details. Gather evidence and witnesses if possible. If they do not stop inform the BA and even if they do stop in particular if there is injury.

I don't know what powers or if the BA can disclose a Third Party's details under data protection laws. Or whether failing to stop is an offence under navigation law.

If you have the TP details your insurers will process the claim with them. In the event that you can't trace or don't know the Third Party you will probably claim from your own insurers for your own damage (like comprehensive car insurance) unless your policy does not cover your own damage (if in doubt check with your insurer)

Finally you could consider private legal action, I can't advise on this but I imagine it is fraught with possible pitfalls and, of course impossible where the Third Party isn't known.

All of the above is subject to professional verification as it may have changed since I worked in insurance claims many years ago in a former life.

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Yes, this is a difficult area!  In my post above I deliberately did not refer to any contact at the scene, between the two parties, since this so often descends into a stressful and pointless confrontation.  It is also quite possible that the hirer of one of these so called "behemoths" didn't even know they had hit something when they went down through Reedham with the tide.

I have always found that it is better, in the long run, to let the boatyard and the insurers sort it out. If in any doubt, get witnesses!

I can understand that, but it's also important for everyone to realise that leaving the scene of an accident without exchanging details is a contravention of the Byelaws and might just make people think twice about going back and doing the right thing, remember more and more boats these days are fitting dash cams. Can anyone really be sure they weren't caught on camera?

It's also better that the BA get to record these incidents and build up a picture of any areas or issues that need addressing.

I know your trying to get across the message, don't worry the insurance will and do take care of it, but it doesn't start there for many people. I recently documented an incident of poor hand over training and poor handling by yard staff that I witnessed. What I didn't document is what followed and I'm sure follows for many other people too. Once the boats in front and behind me had departed we were ready for the pub, but before that could happen the self preservation instinct kicks in that shouldn't be necessary. I rechecked the tide and it was still coming in. So we untied the ropes that had been set for the night and pulled the boat down river against the tide to the next boat. That means at least one end of my boat should be protected for now at least! It also means that anyone coming in to moor the wrong way with the tide behind them is likely to get carried past the exposed end of my boat. Anyone coming in to moor the correct way is likely to have the tide helping them slow before they can hit my boat. The final bit was to head to the pub and stop and have a chat with the occupants of the boat we have pulled up closer to. They are sitting in the rear well sipping wine and having a snack. They are staying for the night so a little more relief that one end of the boat at least will face no further onslaughts that day. They had also witnessed the earlier poor helming and made comment on it. Pleasantries exchanged for a few minutes and I'm relaxed fairly safe in the knowledge that I have an unofficial watch over my boat for a few hours so I can relax in the pub now. From comments I read here and elsewhere I know there are many people who do not relax until they have boats safely moored either side of them, even if like we did it means moving one way or the other to seek shelter, based upon which way the tide is running.

Should we have to do this? No. But do I want the hassle of an insurance claim, even if they do pay out? No. Do I want the hassle of my boat being repaired? No. Is there room for better training of hirers? Yes. Is there room for less complacency, more care and consideration from ALL boaters? Yes.

[Vaughan]

30 minutes ago, Ray said:

All of the above is subject to professional verification as it may have changed since I worked in insurance claims many years ago in a former life.

And I have worked in the handling of insurance claims from the boatyard end, in large companies.

Would you agree with me, in your experience, that unless there are very specific circumstances, a claim will not be refused by insurers, if there are convincing, independent, witnesses?

[Ray]

1 minute ago, Vaughan said:

Would you agree with me, in your experience, that unless there are very specific circumstances, a claim will not be refused by insurers, if there are convincing, independent, witnesses?

Absolutely! Insurers are unpopular, but I never knew an insurance company decline a legitimate claim 

[Paladin]

35 minutes ago, Ray said:

Absolutely! Insurers are unpopular, but I never knew an insurance company decline a legitimate claim 

Well, you do now, unless you’re inferring that my claim is not legitimate - despite all the independent evidence.

[Ray]

27 minutes ago, Paladin said:

Well, you do now, unless you’re inferring that my claim is not legitimate - despite all the independent evidence.

I would never dream of inferring any such thing! I have attempted to express my sympathy with you for the situation you are in and I sincerely hope it is resolved as soon as possible.

[Paul]

5 hours ago, SwanR said:

Could we please have a description of what to do if clobbered by one of those B****y privately owned boats? Otherwise it’s not a very balanced point of view.

 A balanced point of view is not something that appears too important around here anymore. I know a few well-known names have "stepped back" in recent weeks and months. The more I read the more I understand why. Even the title of this post is extremely offensive and the use of foul language, even disguised, when did that become acceptable? I had a post moderated and went on the naughty step for doing that in a post, and here we see someone doing it in a title without any form of censure, but then this is one of the untouchables. 

Seems the double standards are not even disguised anymore.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

 

[andyg]

4 hours ago, Ray said:

Absolutely! Insurers are unpopular, but I never knew an insurance company decline a legitimate claim 

Really ?? I have loads of times, add in a personal injury and we'll were into a whole different ball game. Insurance companies will wiggle out of anything they can. The idea that an assessor turns up with an open cheque book is nieve. How do I know this..my sister is one, not boats but commercial property, all over the world. Her job ?? Save the company money it's as simple as that. Sadly I believe Vaughan  comments are of a world that dosent exist anymore. If in this case the repairs run into thousands then the insurers will dig very deep into the claim. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

6 minutes ago, andyg said:

Really ?? I have loads of times, add in a personal injury and we'll were into a whole different ball game. Insurance companies will wiggle out of anything they can.

You can probably blame the Rent-A-Car Crash mob and the fake injury scams  for a lot of it!

[Vaughan]

19 minutes ago, Paul said:

 A balanced point of view is not something that appears too important around here anymore. I know a few well-known names have "stepped back" in recent weeks and months. The more I read the more I understand why. Even the title of this post is extremely offensive and the use of foul language, even disguised, when did that become acceptable? I had a post moderated and went on the naughty step for doing that in a post, and here we see someone doing it in a title without any form of censure, but then this is one of the untouchables. 

Seems the double standards are not even disguised anymore.

If I had realised how some  appear to feel, I would never have started this thread, in the genuine wish to assist members who may find themselves in the traumatic situation of having their boat damaged.

The word I used is no longer considered a swearword and indeed if you spell it out here, the software filter will not delete it.  The title was perhaps a bit "phonetic", to identify how people feel when accidents such as these happen.

I totally agree that many of the "old school" of the forum have stepped back and they are very sadly missed.  Perhaps I could suggest that at least I have decided to stick it out, during those bad times?  I am most certainly not one of the untouchables (if there are any) and will very soon get "modded" if I step out of line.  Usually with good reason!

I am sorry to have offended you but I had genuinely hoped that the sharing of my experience would be of use to members.

[andyg]

9 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

You can probably blame the Rent-A-Car Crash mob and the fake injury scams  for a lot of it!

Oh definitely, my sister has just returned from the states and a huge warehouse fire you could probably find the vid on YouTube.We're talking millions. A train driver passing by the site whilst it was on fire has lodged a huge claim apparently. Initial losses have been agreed but this claim will rumble on for a few years. 

[Ray]

25 minutes ago, andyg said:

Really ?? I have loads of times, add in a personal injury and we'll were into a whole different ball game. Insurance companies will wiggle out of anything they can. The idea that an assessor turns up with an open cheque book is nieve

 

5 hours ago, Ray said:

All of the above is subject to professional verification as it may have changed since I worked in insurance claims many years ago in a former life.

 

[ExSurveyor]

36 minutes ago, Paul said:

 A balanced point of view is not something that appears too important around here anymore. I know a few well-known names have "stepped back" in recent weeks and months. The more I read the more I understand why. Even the title of this post is extremely offensive and the use of foul language, even disguised, when did that become acceptable? I had a post moderated and went on the naughty step for doing that in a post, and here we see someone doing it in a title without any form of censure, but then this is one of the untouchables. 

Seems the double standards are not even disguised anymore.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

 

Well it appears that the Mods and admin can't win, we are either over moderating or under moderating or favour "untouchable" members.

Let me make it clear, no one is "untouchable", even moderators and admin are subjected to the same standards.

Members come and go, always have and always will. Everyones imput is valued and as long as it is done within the published ToS  and in a friendly spirit no one will be moderated.

The aim of any post must surely be to share opinion and wisdom not to see how far the boundaries can be pushed.

I see how much mods time is taken up dealing with issues that could be avoided if a few moments were taken to rethink a post or response.

If anyone has a problem, I am easy to message.

Happy sunny Sunday

 

[grendel]

I have to admit that i saw the post title and my first thought was that i would have to step in and moderate it, then i read the post and understood the context, and allowed it on this occasion as making the point, use of asterisked out words is always looked  upon by the team in context, and in this instance i didnt consider its use as aiming to break or bypass the tos. we always look at these things and discuss them, unless they are out and out violations of the tos, when we will hide the post then discuss.

[FlyingFortress]

3 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

Well it appears that the Mods and admin can't win, we are either over moderating or under moderating or favour "untouchable" members.

Let me make it clear, no one is "untouchable", even moderators and admin are subjected to the same standards.

Members come and go, always have and always will. Everyones imput is valued and as long as it is done within the published ToS  and in a friendly spirit no one will be moderated.

The aim of any post must surely be to share opinion and wisdom not to see how far the boundaries can be pushed.

I see how much mods time is taken up dealing with issues that could be avoided if a few moments were taken to rethink a post or response.

If anyone has a problem, I am easy to message.

Happy sunny Sunday

 

Well that was a lot less confrontational  than the original post.

[andyg]

 Who'd be a mod...well I was back in the day and I still wear Fred Perry polo shirts,love em ( have you seen how much they cost nowadays) old army saying if your willing to poke your head up over the trench, be prepared to get shot. Personally I don't always agree but have nothing but respect for those that are willing to do a thankless task..thanks. ps sorry if I cross the line at times 😉