Eberspacher or webasto

[JawsOrca]

Hi All,

 

I really need to get the diesel heating for the boat but I'm wondering if theres any real difference between Eberspacher or webasto.. Can anyone offer any help into which one to choose or should I just look at cost?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

[MBA Marine]

they are both as crappy as each other, great when working well but if you fail to maintain them they will cost you a fortune. The small units were only ever intended to heat a lorrys sleeping cab overnight, but they are often fitted into boats where they get a lot more continuous use and are run on diesel stored in tanks that have years of sludge in the bottom and then there is the red diesel, all these things cause the heater to coke up quickly.

[JawsOrca]

lol thanks Mark! glowing recommendation there! We do really want to use the boat out of season so believe we have to get one.. is there any alternative you would recommend?

[MBA Marine]

Propex are good but thirsty on gas.

 

from reading your restoration topic I have noticed you like to find a bargain, well honest advice having come across numerous people who have spent up to £350 on 2nd hand ebay units most have failed in a short time, if its the basics of a service kit then its not to bad and you guys are savvy enough to it yourselves but if the ECU type thingy is up the swanny and this you will only find out by paying someone with the diagnostic tester you can find that costing the same as the initial purchase then you will wish you had bought a new unit.

 

More advice, shop around for ducting adapters and outlets, exhaust and hull fittings, then look at just buying the heater and control stat you may find that you can get that cheaper than buying a complete kit, also you can buy cheaper from overseas but you do have to factor in if you want the warranty as it will be a pain if you're dealing with a overseas supplier. 

[JawsOrca]

Mark.. to be honest, I'm not a fan of gas heating as gas appears to add more condensation.. but I'll take a look at propex before I take the leap.

 

We do like bargins but not on certain things so we are going new for this.. I'm really not wasting time and energy getting an ebay one working (as you say it could easily be a false economy), in fact I will probably get from JPC direct who advertise on here, I'm just waiting on a price for the full kit but they only do Webasto and I was leaning more towards Ebers but they seem to have some good deals on at the moment.

[BroadScot]

Alan, years ago Aston Leo was warm air heating using gas bottles and a stat. Must be a modern version now I would think. Happy hunting.

 

 Iain.

[diesel falcon]

Hi,

pPropex gas heaters are room sealed so don,t produce condensation as an old type flueless appliance does, I have both on the boat, but the eberspacher knockes the socks off the propex, ebo,s suffered from using the old red diesel which had a high sulpher content, It now burns a lot cleaner.so sooting is not so much of a problem, A decoke kit isn,t expensive and the units are simple to work on,

[LondonRascal]

There is always Mikuni... http://www.mikuniheating.com/HotAir_SailMotorBoat.cfm

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Alan,

 

The service kit (basically all the seals) for the Eberspacher is just under £70.

 

We have had heating in Ranworth Breeze since around 2007/8 which was fitted with  three outlets. One of our owners services this each year. If you have problems after fitting a used unit you can get a service replacement guaranteed for 12 months for around £300 to £350.

 

Here is some information on Eberspacers.

 

Regards

Alan

airtronicD2+D4_technical.pdf

D2%20D4%20Operating%20&%20Install%20Booklet.pdf

marine_installation_22278.pdf

[petersjoy]

There is always Mikuni... http://www.mikuniheating.com/HotAir_SailMotorBoat.cfm

I'll second that, had mine on the boat for 6 years never had to touch it until this year, only changed the glow plug.

[JawsOrca]

Thanks Robin (and paul) I've not seen these, they appear to be the same price as the deals I'm seeing on the other two.. I'm a bit worried about spending that money on an unknown (to me) brand.. do you know if they are widely used and parts are widely available?

 

Thanks Alan too.. Whats a service replacement though? is that the main unit? (Do you know of a supplier.. I do like a deal lol).

 

[MauriceMynah]

Jason at LBBY (SOS24/7) has some experience on the Mikuni units I believe. Also if memory serves, I think Griff on Broad Ambition uses one.

[BroadScot]

I have just been talking to our ex coxwain of our local lifeboat, he was the boats engineer also. He says that the Mikuni is a very good reliable heating unit. 

 

Iain.

[finny]

its perceived That Mikuni are slightly better in quality .I fitted a new Eberspacher D2 and it never gave me any trouble and to be honest I didn't even service it ....that said I did run it flat out most of the time .personally I believe which ever you choose  the correct installation  is vital

 

 

Finny

[BroadAmbition]

Another vote For Mikuni - Plus if you keep your fuel tank treated with 'Soltron' it will burn cleaner, hotter and no dreaded bug either

[JawsOrca]

Geez ok a lot of positive votes... I'm still looking around, There seems to be lots of good offers on being the middle of summer! I'll post back what I end up with!

[Oddfellow]

I wouldn't go near a Mikuni heater. Quite expensive in the first instance, many of the service parts are much better priced than the German options, but these units are less reliable in my experience.The technology of the mikuni range looks to be about 10+ years behind the Germans too. 

 

We run mostly Eberspacher units in fleet with a couple of webastos in situ from previous owners. In preference, I might err towards Websato because we have had fewer problems with these in fleet.

 

Another option is to go for a wet system, If you have space to install radiators, fantastic. The residual heat from these will keep warmth going for longer  where as once the warm air stops flowing, it cools immediately. If you can't install rads, you can buy individual blower boxes which can be wired to room thermostats so you can control different cabins' temperature. All three manufacturers make hot water heaters,

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Alan,

 

The company we used for supplying our service kits is P.F.Jones of Manchester, Nuttall Street Old Trafford Manchester M16 9JA 016172 4755 www.pfjones.co.uk.

 

That price I posted was for a full service exchange heater.

 

We used to have the heating serviced by a company but at £600 per year was well over odds, but as we all know unless you can do any of the work yourself boating is a very expensive pastime.

 

Regards

Alan 

 

PS I have just seen Andy's post and I totally agree with him that the use of a diesel heater combined with a wet system  is the best route you can go if at all practical. Narrow Boat lend themselves very well to wet systems because of the long walkways for hanging radiators, but if you have the space in a cruiser the I would opt for that type of system.

We have never had a problem on a diesel or gas wet system, but have had problems on ducted air, the usual notices on these heating systems is switch on and leave to fire, if the system does not fire switch off and leave 15-20 minutes before restart, usually on hire craft we have been on there is no control for temperature.

On Ranworth Breeze we have a D3 and we tend to leave the temperature control at 3/4 to full, our experience is that they do not like being set at lower levels.

[MauriceMynah]

The problem with the "wet" system (radiators) is that they take rather along time to actually heat the boat. Normally on board someone will say "oooh, it's a bit chilly, turn the heating on" . That's when you need the heat, there and then. What's needed is a combination system that sends hot air puffing out whilst the rads are warming up.Does such a system exist?

If it does, it needs to go through the diesel usage meter (if that also exists, see other thread) so you can tell your total fuel consumption.

[BuffaloBill]

I can't agree with MM at all. We fitted a Webasto wet system

to our last boat(38ft) and fitted a blower box to feed the

cockpit and front cabins and a ladder radiator in the shower/toilet

cabin with a thermostat and a second blower for the rear cabins

and galley again with it's own thermostat and it was brilliant!

Another advantage is that the boat doesn't have to start up cold

during the winter months as the engine water is heated during

the time that the heater is on. 

The heater is fitted with a thermostatic switch which will switch

the heater blowers on(subject to the blower box's thermostat setting)

and this is usually around 3/4 minutes or so.

Have a word with Tom at JPC as he knows what he's talking about.

The only thing I will say is that you should insulate all the piping

including the warm air ducting and you won't regret it.

(photo shows the box under the bed in the rear cabin.

[MauriceMynah]

I'm a little confused BB, I think you have just described the very system I was suggesting and asking if existed. A wet system for sustained warmth but with blowers for immediate heat.

This, for my mind, is the perfect system. or have I read your post wrongly?

[JawsOrca]

Thanks again All.. 

 

Thanks to Andy at freedom, its nice to hear advice from a hirefleet as the hirers really do put a boat to the test! Tom at JPC said the same too about the other units

 

I've not heard of a wet system before (This isn't something I've done a huge amount of research on!) although I don't think we have the space on the cruiser for that type and I think its a bit overkill for the cruiser as the cabin is quite small.. Although it maybe an idea on our houseboat which already has radiators although they are powered from a back boiler from the log burning stove which isn't brilliant (it gets there but it takes an hour or so!).

 

Good to hear a further tip on the insulating the pipes too, Tom suggested this and I wasn't sure if it was a sales pitch, so I'll certainly aim to do that.

 

I've found a really good deal on a complete Webasto Marine kit and I'm just hoping Tom can come close as I'd rather buy from a smaller company. Although his service so far has been brilliant.

[MBA Marine]

Wet system is great, but you might need to take out a mortgage if using the fan matrix boxes, Chaa-ching!

[LondonRascal]

Urm..

 

So you have a unit that heats water and then this has a pump that pumps that around the boat – this is far more effective than moving heated air, as of course hot water will stay hotter over a distance than warmed air will.

 

However this process is exactly what happens in a car heater – water is heated, and moved through a blower matrix – air is drawn over the matrix into the cabin of the car and hey presto warmed air toasty car.

 

It therefore surely must be possible to plumb in to the pipes coming from the (for want of a better word) ‘water heater’ to car heater matrix’s sourced from Ebay – a Mondeo one for example £13.00 at the moment as a shell, but a complete ‘heater box’ with fan for £30.00.

 

You would need to give them a good flush out, since in a car they would have had coolant going through them and likely scaled up internally but they must cost a hell of a lot less than the ‘marine blower matrix’ – furthermore you would then be able to wire in a fan blower motor control – low, medium or high speed just as in a car – and of course will run off 12v.

 

Each cabin would then have a controllable heat and speed of the which the blower operated at – simply ‘hide’ the  rather horrible looking black plastic matrix heater box behind a rather nice looking brass or chrome vent and nobody would know the secret behind the heat source...

[BuffaloBill]

Just for the record Robin... those systems are sealed and run

through the engine and calorifier and are filled with anti-freeze

just like a car.

Getting the piping joined to a car heater matrix is another thing.

There are cheaper matrix's available on the internet to do the

job and could well suit his needs.

The other advantage of course is that with a ladder radiator in

the toilet/shower room, there is somewhere to hang wet clothing

and also the mirror doesn't steam up when you have a shave!

The units don't take up any more room than an air heater other

than you have to have room for the matrix. It is also easier to

thread water pipe around the boat than flexible air ducting as

well as being easier to insulate.

Another advantage is that you get free heat from the system as

the engine heats the water and therefore the matrix can blow

hot air as you cruise along  Win Win all round for a little

extra work on the installation.

Just the job for you MM!