Breydon posts idea

[marshman]

You have all got it wrong - escorted convoys for all boats seems the way forward, tutorials compulsory for all at Burgh Castle, Berney Arms and Marina Quays and pilots for the bridges whatever the airdraft of your boat oh and compulsory pilotage for those who cannot read or don't want to!! Either that or why not propose some kind of funicular system, funded by the BA of course, onto which you have to lock your boat and cannot escape. Should solve it without problem!

[Bound2Please]

At sea I remember it as 'port to port to go to port'. I modify that thought on the broads to mean upriver. The problem with this is that the yanks had some sort of anti imperialist moment and did the exact opposite...

http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/navigation/Pages/tips.aspx

 

Your link shows cardinal marks on buoys as to how they are at sea, I have always used the posts in the same way. The yellow marker being like the yellow into the river colne, and not a cardinal mark at all. 

 

Charlie

[BroadScot]

You have all got it wrong - escorted convoys for all boats seems the way forward, tutorials compulsory for all at Burgh Castle, Berney Arms and Marina Quays and pilots for the bridges whatever the airdraft of your boat oh and compulsory pilotage for those who cannot read or don't want to!! Either that or why not propose some kind of funicular system, funded by the BA of course, onto which you have to lock your boat and cannot escape. Should solve it without problem!

Oh a wee bit harsh Marshy 

 

 

 

Iain.

[kfurbank]

Looking at the latest incident of a hire boat cruising after dark, maybe all hire boats should have GPS transponders in and a system where the engine can be switched off if a boat moves after dark. Could also be used to sound a siren if the boat deviates from the channel.

[Hockham Admiral]

Oh a wee bit harsh Marshy 

 

 

 

Iain.

I'm not so sure I agree! 

[BroadScot]

I'm not so sure I agree! 

Can you really see the BA funding it John? Also it looks to me as a police state project. People after all are on HOLIDAY! If it came to Marshys idea, the Broads as a holiday place would be know more. May suit all the privateers though?

 

 

Iain

[Hockham Admiral]

Can you really see the BA funding it John? Also it looks to me as a police state project. People after all are on HOLIDAY! If it came to Marshys idea, the Broads as a holiday place would be know more. May suit all the privateers though?

 

 

Iain

Errrr, tongue in cheek come to mind.............. 

[Hockham Admiral]

Now off to the Pub for BB&B!

[kfurbank]

Now simmer down mods. Err who moderates the mods?

[BroadScot]

Just replying to Marshys thoughts Keith, as a hirer. I suspect if we saw the logs long before web cams and instant photography, this happened ALL over the Broads. Today its highlighted instantly thanks to the modern media available.

 

 

Iain.

[Bound2Please]

Looking at the latest incident of a hire boat cruising after dark, maybe all hire boats should have GPS transponders in and a system where the engine can be switched off if a boat moves after dark. Could also be used to sound a siren if the boat deviates from the channel.

 

Switching off a boats engine would be rather dangerous if its underway!!!!!!

 

The siren however may or may not help.

 

Charlie

[stumpy]

50-odd years ago when I took my Scout charge certificate it was drummed into me that "There's red port left up on the shelf" - still works!

[smellyloo]

The existing post colour marking must be retained because that's what people expect who navigate on the briny.

 

But the Broads is a bit unique because anybody can hire a boat without any knowledge of the briny high way code!!

 

As SwanR says above the post/colour system can appear baffling to those unused to it .... I agree ..... I guess first time skippers should be warned that they MUST familiarise themselves with the convention before navigating restricted, marked channels.

[JawsOrca]

It really is easy...

 

Keep within the markers...

 

(forget what colour they are painted.. (considering most of the are brown with dirt).. Just keep within the markers ) 

 

Just like we have to keep within the banks of the river.. go outside of the banks and you aren't a boat anymore...

[grendel]

I have to say, its no more confusing than driving on the continent, where you can drive from france to belgium to holland, and have variations on the signs at each border (especially when nobody in the car speaks belgian or dutch), having done the uk-france-belgium-holland and back in a day, I will confess that at times I didnt know whether I was supposed to be coming or going. I have also (one morning when tired) managed to drive 3 miles along a french country road  - on the wrong side (thank goodness for empty french roads).

for some new to boating, it can be just as confusing.

Grendel

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Nothing wrong with Breydon, so let`s leave it well alone.

 

I`ve crossed it dozens of times, with and against the tide, when it`s flat calm, and with a 3ft swell, at whetever time we`ve been there, and NEVER had a problem. I`ve not had any formal training, and never want to. I am intellegent enough to cross Breydon whenever i feel it`s safe to do so, and don`t want any halfwit dictatorial authority, most of which have probably never crossed it, telling me i`m safe to do so.

[senator]

Green red argument does not hold a great deal of water unless you know what port you are heading for,

 

If the Port is Yarmouth then technically the posts are the wrong way round.

 

I think they are set to the port of Norwich hence they are the way they are but if you enter at Lowestoft (from Sea) then continue to make your way to the port of Gt Yarmouth the posts would be Green to starboard, which would put you heavily in the mud.

 

Forget the internationally recognised symbols for Breydon, there are too many ways to read them. stick big arrows on the posts and at least there would be no excuse.

[JawsOrca]

P.s.. In terms of markers it will red on the left all the way to very source of the river.. So even right upstream were you are paddling in your wellies.. it would still be red to port (left). (There could be a harbour/dock at the end).

 

(The famous yellow marker is a simplified cardinal.. Simplified for the broads.. (Geez imaging trying to explain to pass after the south cardinal) ).

 

See: http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/navigation/Pages/tips.aspx

 

(I stole the attached image from google images).

[senator]

Alan, have a look at your chart let, especially the spur off the river to port which is still buoyed red to port, despite not being the source.

 

I was taught that the marks were from sea to land, which I guess as the port is normally landfall was given as the port.

 

No doubt your description is correct as buoyed to the source but even your chartlet confuses that. With Breydon being the confluence of three Rivers and the Sea and the ability to approach from sea in two different directions, albeit via a lock, even armed with the information that the bouyage is red to port and green to starboard to the source the question of which source still exists as a possible cause of confusion.

[JawsOrca]

I must admit I noticed that after I posted it. That bit then uses the diamonds to indicate starboard and cones to indicate port so yes certainly not the best charlet example I agree! and I believe that's from the RYA as part of the day skipper course !. But typically the buoyage isn't as well defined as it is on Breydon so I think the RYA are trying and remind you that it's not always text book (Certainly when colour gives way to sticks!).. but it should be red to port all the way to source.  

 

So for Breydon it should be red to port even on the other converging rivers because breydon could be seen as estuary and as you say all rivers converge on it therefore it should be red to left all the way up these rivers..

 

So If you are approaching Breydon from Oulton broad then you are going down stream as Oulton Broad is accessed via a dyke (Oulton Dyke) and (as far as I believe) therefore is not part of the River waverney.. The waverney flows towards Breydon water and exits via the sea at Great Yarmouth as part of the Yare. 

 

(Ps as others have mentioned Ignore IALA-B which is the other way.. poxy americans )

 

Couple more pics (stolen via google images) attached to hopefully explain why that first chartlet was wrong and another to show how confusing it really can get when you put it all together!! (and why you really need charts and a chart plotter!!)

 

 

 

[Baitrunner]

How does it work in rockland broad? Is the staithe the port?

Keep between the sticks is the easiest. If you showed this to a newbie on day 1 they would have a heart attack!!

I know your just trying to illustrate the point though Alan.

[JawsOrca]

How does it work in rockland broad? Is the staithe the port?

 

 

Lol yes Mark the Staithe should be the port as that's at the end of navigation.. (But is the broads and anythings possible!)

 

If you showed this to a newbie on day 1 they would have a heart attack!!

 

 

I guess that's why the BA just say "Keep between the markers"  lol  (The medway estuary is a bit like this.. cardinal buoys everywhere so without a plotter you would be stuck.. literately.. I'm so good I never good stuck  )

 

[Hockham Admiral]

But if you can read the cardinals, Alan, it's quite simples, really!

[JennyMorgan]

Senator, as far as the coast & rivers are concerned everything relates to the direction of the flood tide. 

[senator]

Good Point Peter, why couldn't they say something that simple in day skipper? could never work out which port the channel buoy's were worked to along the coast. 

 

Still think leaving someone who has never seen a boat before to work it out on the Broads, even with that fantastically simple piece of information, is asking a lot, would they really know enough to work out the direction of flow on all the rivers? Arrows on the post showing which side to stay would be far easier.