MauriceMynah

Having had my own boat on the broads for over twenty years now, I've been both the receiver and giver of assistance on several occasions.. Both have been cases of great satisfaction and pleasure.

If you've finished with the parrot, can I have him?

Perhaps it's how they want it.

Me too.

Have we lost yet?

Sorry Robin, I think JohnB has a point, I too can see such things being misused if the idea catches on!

Wren?

Hirers or privateers? As someone said earlier, there are angels and demons in both camps. Firstly I have to say that this is another of those rare occasions where I agree totally with Neil (Speedtriple) and Ian (Senator). I can however see one small logic to the "speed over ground" argument, which is that a novice will find it easier to judge his speed by looking at the bank and comparing it with walking speed. This of course is more relevant on the northern waters where typically the tidal flow is much lower. Again as has been said it's the speed through water where excessive wash can occur. It follows therefore that the rev counter should be the instrument of choice. Naturally it isn't that simple! If we take Gt.Yarmouth as an example, and on an ebb tide. You are going up stream having just crossed Breydon. You are punching what to me seems like a 3 to 4 mph tide. If you are going to make any reasonable headway your speed over land will be 2mph so your speed through water will be 6 knots/mph and your wash could be considerable. Something I genuinely do not know is "If the wash is travelling slowly (2mph), is the effect on a moored boat the same as if that wash were travelling at 6mph?." I find it difficult to believe it is. My thinking is that if the tide is 4 mph, and your speed through water is 4mph against that tide, you would be stationary in relation to the ground and any moored boat. Would said boat be rocking from your wash? Surely not! so under those conditions, it is your speed over land that causes any danger. SO!!! What do we tell the novice... ..."You need to obey all the speed limits all the time. Those limits refer to your speed over land, except if you are fighting a tide, then the limits (over land) are lower because otherwise you'll kick up a hell of a wash. If it's a strong tide then you'll need to go faster through the water but not fast enough to reach the over land speed limit. If you are going with the tide then you must measure your speed over land unless that is, when the tide is going faster than the speed limit, If that's the case you measure your speed through the water, unless there is a ranger about when you'd better slow down. and that's all there is to it!" So, we know the problem, what's the solution?

Thanks Alan (RB), you've just reminded me... Colwyn Bay Alan,... If you do this, have some good sunglasses ready, you will be cruising into the rising sun.

I have cruised at sunrise, with mist over the water, on a beautiful summers day. It's an experience you won't forget.

No simile fits this situation. I would say that you are in an unusual position in as much as... You sold your boat without using a broker. The boat you sold is to leave the broads. You had only just tolled the boat you sold. You purchased a new boat very soon after selling your old one. The boat you purchased did not come from the broads, thus had no toll paid. You make it clear that you are not asking BA for a refund but for a toll transfer, and as that cannot be done under the existing system, you want that system changed to accommodate your somewhat unusual set of circumstances. If you didn't know the way the toll system worked, you should have researched the matter. You should have been aware of the toll situation before you went through all this. Now you are shouting "unfair" here and elsewhere. I'm very sorry if I sound uncaring but I, ( like a number of others it seems ) cannot support your objections or objectives. You asked my opinion as a forum member. That is it!

If that's a "Where was this taken?" I'm not playing any more!

I refer to my original observation... "The more simple the system is, the less the chance of abuse and therefore the cheaper it is." To enable the transfer of funds from one boat to another would require the transfer of the record from boat to owner and then from owner to new boat. They would have to ensure that the old boat was removed from the relevant waterway. Each stage is a complication to a simple system. Each stage could open the system to abuse. Each of the above statements would cost the BA money. That shortfall, however small, would be a fine excuse for the BA to hike the tolls. Any system would be "unfair" to some group or other. This system is "unfair" to a small minority. I would think it "unfair" if I (and everybody else) ended up paying more to make it "fairer" to that minority. "You said/asked in earlier posts"... and... "I'm not known for just accepting things but if collective opinion is such that I am wrong fine,"

Unfair?, Well perhaps yes ok, but only to a small number of people. Illegal? No, certainly not, and using terms such as "embezzling" isn't helpful. You asked for the views of the forum members and then go on to argue against those views when they disagree with your own. You've been badly hit by this "unfairness" so you are miffed, but I don't want top pay more for my toll to make it fairer for others.

Senator, What you suggest could result in two valid plaques being issued for two different boats with only one toll having been paid. Could this possibly be a situation open to abuse?

This is one of those topics that gets raised from time to time. My opinion is pretty straight forwards. The more simple the system is, the less the chance of abuse and therefore the cheaper it is. If the BA adopted a more complex system whereby refunds could be obtained the price would have to reflect the additional administrational costs along with the monies lost to those who abuse the system, and there would be many. I can for example suggest to you how you might abuse the system we have. What I would suggest would be illegal, it would defraud the BA and basically would end up with the rest of us paying a tiny fraction more money to cover it. For every one who is tempted to commit this fraud we would all pay a tiny bit more until all the tiny bits add up to a significant amount. Nope, sorry matey, when you change boats and it means bringing a new craft to the broads, you lose out. Toll plaques are not transferable and not refundable and that's life!

Yes Paul, I agree with you, that is what I'd do... However, there may well be issues of which we are unaware, If Alan has commitments that stop him from leaving that early, and in fairness we don't want him to detail his every move and action, (OK, we do but that's just us being nosey),,, such constraints may well be the reason for the original question.

Hi Alan, I understand the problem here, it's something that happens from time to time. You want to know the answer to a fairly simple question but people get so tied up with the why's and wherefore's they forget the question you wanted the answer to! Punching the tide is expensive on fuel and thus is best avoided. People on here were trying so hard to find ways of your avoiding it they forgot to ask you if that was an option. If I assume that you will be at Oulton Broad the previous night and want to spend the next night at Stokesby, and that the tides are unfriendly for that journey. Under those conditions I would agree that your best bet is to leave Oulton Broad as early as possible, even at first light if that is an option. How many helmspersons will you have on board? you might need a break from time to time. Does that help you at all? The more details you can give us the better able to assist with accurate information we shall be.

Hmm, Thinks... If I had a live in driver who was an expert on palm nuts I'd be... Accommodating a chauffeur who was a connoisseur of dessicated coconut... easier to say than to spell... (well it is for me)... Meanwhile back at the topic...

And when is it you'll be on the broads next then? sort of dates annat!

I'm sure Jenny Morgan is wonderful, especially when sails are down.

"But are the people who run it properly accountable for their actions?" It all rather depends on where the missing comma was intended to be placed. Before or after "properly".

Duvets... ... Isn't that what posh people hang their dinghys from?

Looks like Martham to me!

I rarely see details of holidays abroad that hold any interest for me, but that one I like the sound of... very much!