Cruiser Sailing Without Lights, Shock Horror, Lifeboat Called!

[JennyMorgan]

13 minutes ago, Baitrunner said:

Jonzo I do agree but if we have 500 members (many not boat owners) and to make it easy there are say 10000 boats on the broads. At best we represent 5% of boat owners. It isn't a significant proportion in my opinion. Hence getting more support from more private boat owners. 

Im still in favour of doing something, but we shouldn't get too disappointed if we don't get heard. 

I think the best that we can be is a lobby group to the NSBA, the Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association. Lobbying the Authority itself has repeatedly proven to be pointless, witness the Broads Bill leading up to the Broads Act, the Doctor knows best. The NSBA does have representation within the Broads Authority and is already established, does have both credibility and a meaningful mandate. The NSBA hasn't always got it right but it's the best chance that we have, membership is open to all, the more the merrier! 

http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/members/leaflet1.pdf

[Baitrunner]

A bit of team work and hanging up on the BA then. 

[Vaughan]

Since my post yesterday I have read your comments about the Broads Society and have also phoned a couple of friends this morning who, like me, have spent their lives around the Broads. They describe the Broads Society as a chocolate teapot.

Luckily I had not posted my cheque last night, so no harm done. 

My friends also suggested the NSBA, as does Peter, but I don't know anything about them myself - after my time! If they do have a representation on navigation matters then maybe the forum can back them up, with positive opinions, and positive proposals?

[johnm]

I know this place does thread drift but ...

2 points:

1. This sounds a lot like politics and will definitely involve 'political' discussions. Is the forum ready for that and will the ToS cover it. I'm not against it at all but just running a small warning flag up a flimsy pole!

2. If we think we might be ready for it, would it not be better to ave this running as a specific thread. After all, who would think that "Cruiser Sailing Without Lights, Shock Horror, Lifeboat Called!" is actually now 'Should we become a local political pressure group?'

[Bound2Please]

1 minute ago, Jonzo said:

And yes, a separate topic would be a good idea.

Seconded on that one

Charlie

[smellyloo]

I joined this forum for friendly discussion/debate of many issues & topics related to the Broads.

I don't & won't partake in any organisation with an agenda political or otherwise and would feel uncomfortable if the inevitable few were to adopt the role of spokesmen for this organisation on political issues.

If an individual wished to raise an issue here with a view to canvassing opinion then that would be welcomed my me.

 

[Jonathan]

12 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

and would feel uncomfortable if the inevitable few were to adopt the role of spokesmen for this organisation

Me too!  Partly because I view these "goings-on" from afar and have never been directly involved, other than as an occasional hirer (not quite a dedicated as some - sorry!). I do read the "BA" topics with interest, but since I (1) don't know all of the "history" most of the time, (2) don't live there, (3) don't work there, (4) don't own a boat, I am not sure I am the right person to harrang those that do.  If these ideas progress then perhaps a separate branch of the web site (similar to "members area") could be used to split off the political wing?  You could call it the Norfolk Broads Network Action Group (NB-NAG).

[JennyMorgan]

Smelly does raise a valid point nevertheless I go with Jonzo's comment, 'I don't think it's about becoming a local political pressure group per se, more that in this instance we can and perhaps should be doing something to help keep the broads great.'

I also don't see that any one individual person should be spokesperson however I see no harm in the membership who wish to become involved arriving at a consensus of opinion and that consensus being passed on to the relevant organisation. 

There is/was a forum that set itself up as the arbiter of opinion in regard to the Broads based service industries, in doing so, in my opinion of course, made something of a fool of itself. All well intended, obviously, but with absolutely no meaningful mandate whatsoever. I would hate to see this forum put itself in a similar position. 

Personally I would like to see a campaign page that people can, if they so wish, ignore. Others may wish to discuss concerns but at the end of the day I too would not wish to see the forum become a political animal in itself. A letter to the NSBA might start by saying that a group of members from the NBN forum have discussed so and so issue and the consensus is that blah blah blah etc.. Please be aware that this is the consensus of that group and not the NBN itself.

We have to remember that the forum is a very wide cathedral in itself and that opinions will vary thus the NBN surely can not claim to represent its membership in its entirety. 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Since my post yesterday I have read your comments about the Broads Society and have also phoned a couple of friends this morning who, like me, have spent their lives around the Broads. They describe the Broads Society as a chocolate teapot.

Luckily I had not posted my cheque last night, so no harm done. 

My friends also suggested the NSBA, as does Peter, but I don't know anything about them myself - after my time! If they do have a representation on navigation matters then maybe the forum can back them up, with positive opinions, and positive proposals?

Vaughan, hardly before your time! Surely you remember the Green Book, the annual Broads Bible, with all the regatta fixtures and a mountain of information for Broads navigators landing through your parent's letterbox on the green? You can also buy a nice new flag for your boat or dormobile! The NSBA used to be, if I remember correctly, the NSYA, yachting association. That was thought to be insufficiently inclusive so the Y was changed to a B, as in boating.

[MauriceMynah]

I think Smellyloo has a good point, I have a sugestion. There is another forum called "Broadly Speaking" I and a number of others here are already members. That forum differed from this one in that it was far more serious. It was often refered to in "the other place" as the "Dark side".

As this other forum is already there and encourages serious debate perhaps that is where we could take such broadland political discussions. Further, should members of other forums wish to, they too could advertise "Broadly speaking" for this purpose.

I am aware that there is a certain level of bad blood between some members of some forums, I should know, I am one of them, however, sometimes there are occasions and subjects where such animosities need to be left to one side for the greater good.

Opinions please!

[addicted]

33 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I think Smellyloo has a good point, I have a sugestion. There is another forum called "Broadly Speaking" I and a number of others here are already members. That forum differed from this one in that it was far more serious. It was often refered to in "the other place" as the "Dark side".

As this other forum is already there and encourages serious debate perhaps that is where we could take such broadland political discussions. Further, should members of other forums wish to, they too could advertise "Broadly speaking" for this purpose.

I am aware that there is a certain level of bad blood between some members of some forums, I should know, I am one of them, however, sometimes there are occasions and subjects where such animosities need to be left to one side for the greater good.

Opinions please!

Before discovering NBN I was a member of another forum.  I wasn't aware that there was more than one forum for the Broads. I abandoned the other forum very shortly after joining. Finding it full of  rather nasty judgmental people who appeared to  me to spend their time watching the forum just waiting for someone to post something with which they could take issue. Often in a personal vey unpleasant way I didn't look at it for about 5 years or more when I did all that time later it was to find that it hadn't  changed a bit It was still full of seemingly nasty ranting .individuals.I then looked further and found NBN  Although it does seem .that some action is needed  to make the Broads more user friendly,It would be a pity to take any action that would change the ethos of NBN However, I'm not sure that I see this as a political issue. more a case of trying to get value for payment made. ie: boat owners licence fees going steadily up and up and facilities just as steadily decreasing, When a shop  gives poor value you have the choice of shopping elsewhere  Not a political decision, surely.Here unfortunately, we have no  such choice other than to attempt  hold the receivers of our funds to account. Is it possible for the NBN  to do this? Are all members singing from the same hymn sheet? probably not I would guess. I would suggest those most affected by the apparent neglect of boats requirements must be the hire companies.  they must be much better situated to apply pressure than we are

regards,

 Carole

[JennyMorgan]

A number of us are already NSBA members and, as such, are entitled to ask the secretary to raise whatever subject at committee level. I'm all for discussion and subsequent consensus which can then be passed on but not in the name of the forum. The NSBA is there for us all. 

Carole, wise words but the hire company's seem to have just one agenda, that of making money. For that reason I would welcome discussion between the good folk of the NBN if only to gauge  alternative points of view and stand-points.

On such issues as rubbish at moorings I suspect that, for once, we are all singing from the same hymn sheet and in rare cases such as that I see no real problem in the NBN becoming involved. However, perhaps we should have a page dedicated to the NSBA?

Re Speakers Corner/Broadly Speaking, I rather think that that has been superseded by the political pages on Face Book.

[addicted]

I am not on Facebook so have no idea of what it covers. Most things by all accounts. My reason for suggesting the hire companies is for the very reason given by Jenny Morgan they're only interested in making money.Of course they are they're businesses, I don't have a problem with that. It is in their interests to see that their customers are happy bunnies therefore it  isexpedient for them to take close interest in the quality of the facilities on offer for their client base. If it falls below  what's required their clients   havethe ability to go elsewhere.

Regrds,

Carole

[MauriceMynah]

32 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

The NSBA is there for us all.

Twitcher, walkers and anglers? or just boaters??

That is what the BA wants to happen, for the various users to divide into their own self interest groups, then they just play one off against the others.

[Wussername]

53 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Twitcher, walkers and anglers? or just boaters??

That is what the BA wants to happen, for the various users to divide into their own self interest groups, then they just play one off against the others.

United we stand divided we fall. By default we are divided.

[LondonRascal]

Honestly, I doubt very much that even if the Broads Authority had some kind of open Forum with the wider community – boat owners, hirers, business owners, etc be it through Facebook or a Forum such as this – would they really act upon what the majority were wishing or the good points that people were raising – call be a cynic but I think not.

The Broads Authority could, and should be more open – engage more with people too, and I don’t me in a formal manner through some committee or some obscure ‘coffee morning’ that about 5 people pop along to, but just as they recently said in the EDP article about attracting a new younger generation to the Broads (no bad idea) but for goodness sake learn to walk before you can jump and engage more with the people you’ve already got who use the Broads.

Join the likes of this Forum, monitor the main Facebook Groups out there, react, post, generally join in with things so you are seen to being ‘human’.  Even the Blog the Broads Authority run is such a half hearted attempt I am not sure how to take it.  One the one hand one could see it as if someone is so keen to try and break out of the tangle of red tape around them, they somehow were allowed to set such up – so long as they did it in their free time and at no cost so used Blogger – a free platform run by Google to do it. 

The truth is, someone said it is ‘the in thing’ to Blog these days, and I have found out you can using Blogger and it is run by Google so its free – we will find a template that sort of matches our own corporate colours and every now and then post something but on no account respond to any comments left on it. 

So this Forum is a great place to have a debate – and long may it continue – but understand that it is just that, ‘us lot’ having a chat – much the same we may in a pub, or round a BBQ but don’t expect that to be overheard by those we are talking about or anything acted on – should we want that, it’s best to go direct to the horse’s mouth but better still with a large group so they might take some notice.

[ranworthbreeze]

20 hours ago, Jonzo said:

Also, there seems to be a new membership form for the NSBA here and it looks to be a tenner now?

http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/members/members_application.asp

Hi John,

I have emailed Julia at the NSBA for information regarding membership be it personal or if they have a syndicate membership (this may be of interest to all of our fellow syndicates on the Broads).

When I get the details I will pass them on in the syndicate section.

Regards

Alan

 

[Vaughan]

On 15 Sep 2016 at 4:12 PM, addicted said:

I am not on Facebook so have no idea of what it covers. Most things by all accounts. My reason for suggesting the hire companies is for the very reason given by Jenny Morgan they're only interested in making money.Of course they are they're businesses, I don't have a problem with that. It is in their interests to see that their customers are happy bunnies therefore it  isexpedient for them to take close interest in the quality of the facilities on offer for their client base. If it falls below  what's required their clients   havethe ability to go elsewhere.

 

I am pleased that, whilst saying that boatyards are "only" interested in making money, you also acknowledge that, to remain in business, you have to be!

After almost a lifetime in the game, I can assure you that very rarely is there any money in it but we do it, and love it, as a wonderful way of life. We also realise that it is a service industry which relies on regular customers. If they are not happy with their holiday (even if they don't tell us why) then they won't come back again. There are a lot of holiday choices out there in the world today.

We have always regarded the Broads as our "stock in trade". If they are not beautiful and well maintained then we are out of business.

But now there is a sea change on the Broads. The service and facilities in the old days were there for all, with more than 100 boatyards around the area - I have never counted them all but in 1964 Blakes had 43 members, some of whom had more than one yard. They also leased and ran many moorings of their own, especially Malthouse Broad and GYYS. There were also a lot more pubs, of course.

That infrastructure is no longer there and so the few remaining yards don't have the power now, to provide facilities in the way that they used to, so we must look elsewhere for the finance, and the action. Don't forget that hire boats already pay a much greater river toll than private boats.

I am looking forward to hearing more details from Alan about the NSBA as it is possible that the forum can provide a volume of opinion to add weight to their efforts.

[Vaughan]

On 15 Sep 2016 at 0:54 PM, JennyMorgan said:

The NSBA used to be, if I remember correctly, the NSYA, yachting association. That was thought to be insufficiently inclusive so the Y was changed to a B, as in boating.

Yes, I remember now, and in fairness, I think it was mainly concerned with sailing in those days.

Also, boating always tended to be known as yachting. Hence a sea-going cruiser would be known (by Lloyds) as a T.S.D.Y. - twin screw diesel yacht.

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Yes, I remember now, and in fairness, I think it was mainly concerned with sailing in those days.

Also, boating always tended to be known as yachting. Hence a sea-going cruiser would be known (by Lloyds) as a T.S.D.Y. - twin screw diesel yacht.

Boating for the masses, yachting for the few, perhaps wrong but it was the thinking of the day.

[ranworthbreeze]

36 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I am looking forward to hearing more details from Alan about the NSBA as it is possible that the forum can provide a volume of opinion to add weight to their efforts.

Hello Vaughan,

Julia got back to me it would seem that there is only an individual member option.

I will contact Julia again when I return from holiday.

Regards

Alan 

[JennyMorgan]

The NSBA is open to membership by relevant clubs and associations, would/could the NBN be regarded as such? Perhaps we could be the NBNYC for the mods, or NBNBC for us minions?

[JennyMorgan]

Jonzo, my meaning was that the NSBA consists of boating clubs rather than internet forums thus the NBN might need to be a practical club within the NSBA's remit and understanding.

[smellyloo]

NBN is a "clicky" club as opposed to a "Clique" club.

Long may it remain so ....................

[JennyMorgan]

22 minutes ago, Jonzo said:

Well we are a club of sorts... We have essentially a committee and regular members, it's just that the structure is a little different.

It's a bit like the .com boom days when websites weren't seen as regular businesses, and then everyone realised it was just basically a reworking of a mail order business.

Put it to Julia, hopefully an open minded, forward thinking person.

Trouble might be that the NSBA has a membership fee based on the applicant club's membership number.