Cruiser Sailing Without Lights, Shock Horror, Lifeboat Called!

[JennyMorgan]

I have absolutely no wish to enter into an argument but 17 hours later does suggest that the call out was the following day. However that in no way your fault and in no way is this a criticism of the Hemsby Lifeboat, more a criticism of the move by Coastguard Control from Gorleston to Humber thus the unfortunate loss of local knowledge. 

[HemsbyPie]

16 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I have absolutely no wish to enter into an argument but 17 hours later does suggest that the call out was the following day. However that in no way your fault and in no way is this a criticism of the Hemsby Lifeboat, more a criticism of the move by Coastguard Control from Gorleston to Humber thus the unfortunate loss of local knowledge. 

Where are you getting 17 hours from? I believe the boat went down late in the afternoon and we were paged just after 7pm...

Also have no wish to argue, but we have to try to keep these things factual.

With regards to the move from Yarmouth to Humber, there were a couple of teething errors to start with as you would expect, but they have been fairly good for the last year or so. People have a tendency of basing their judgement on half the story from poorly written articles, just gets a bit boring as I am sure you can appreciate!

[JennyMorgan]

Points taken, HP, but the 17 hours came from comments by a forum witness, on the original thread, who photographed the unfortunate crew of White Boat number 20 being hauled from the water. Once again, not your fault but the harsh reality is that the call-out, however well intended, two hours or twenty hours late, proved not to be necessary. No way do I suspect that the call was malicious but it did prove to be a false alarm.

Quite simply it highlights a problem, that of identifying the necessary from the unnecessary. Joe public does appear to be becoming overly keen to press that nine button three times and not just with the Coastguard. I have friends in the fire service, one who has told me of a similar problem, namely that of people seeing what they perceive as an emergency as they drive along but what in reality was nothing more, for example, than an innocent bonfire at an allotment. Apparently it gets even sillier when literally scores of calls come in that had the callers actually looked then they would have seen fire appliances already responding. Okay, so it's better to have an unnecessary call out rather than a tragedy and I appreciate that filtering that out can be a problem.  

With Archant's take on reporting fact it is becoming increasingly hard to pass judgement, I know that in regard to the recent boat collision on Oulton Broad that involved family friends. However it is inevitable that folk will form an opinion.

[Vaughan]

Gentlemen.

By that I mean JM and Hemsby Pie, but not necessarily all of you!

It is interesting reading back on this, as 17 hours is the figure quoted by TheQ (on a different thread) as the time between its being reported to this forum, and then later, to the authorities.

JM's estimate was actually 15 hours, as he could clearly see a high tide mark on the sail.

The thread wandered on and off subject for several days and ended with Broadscot and I quoting Rabbie Burns at each other (as you do), but I don't think we have ever heard what happened to this boat. Did the authorities actually check with the owner, as to what had happened? How was it eventually salvaged, or is it still there, with a light on it?

I very much understand where you are both "coming from" so I will leave you with a quote from TheQ - I hope somebody doesn't call them out every timesome-one capsizes during a sailing event. 

[HemsbyPie]

39 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Points taken, HP, but the 17 hours came from comments by a forum witness, on the original thread, who photographed the unfortunate crew of White Boat number 20 being hauled from the water. Once again, not your fault but the harsh reality is that the call-out, however well intended, two hours or twenty hours late, proved not to be necessary. No way do I suspect that the call was malicious but it did prove to be a false alarm.

17 hours would put time of sinking at 2:30am... So fairly sure that's incorrect.

with regards to false alarms, as long as they are reported with good intent it's not an issue to us - just part of the job (sometimes people get it wrong).

[Gracie]

Looking at the photo of the Crew that HemsbyPie posted, I'd jump in the river of my own free will

No one died and no one was hurt, that's the most important thing

Grace

[Bound2Please]

down darlin down ..... xx xx  

Charlie

[Broads01]

On the issue of hire boats moving after dark, whilst the vast majority of hirers are sensible about this, there's always been the issue of people pushing on well after dusk, mainly due to bad planning I think. They sometimes have the mistaken belief that switching the cabin lights on will somehow act as headlights! On several occasions I've moored for the last night on the outer edge of Richardsons and seen several boats coming in when it was dark or almost. Why they didn't moor much earlier and return to Stalham in daylight is beyond my understanding.

[JanetAnne]

On 12/09/2016 at 0:22 PM, Hylander said:

 When did we become a nation of people who have no common sense or aptitude.

Would that be when we embraced 'elf n safety to way beyond its intended remit?

[Matt]

4 hours ago, Broads01 said:

Why they didn't moor much earlier and return to Stalham in daylight is beyond my understanding.

Probably because the chances of being caught and action taken is negligible.......

[ChrisB]

Which is why when the shout comes the guys have to respond. If the morons can't be trusted to look after themselves, god knows what would happen if they were left to their own efforts.

I think you have to accept that a section of society are pretty incapable of, really doing very much. If that is so then the rest of us have to look after them, that is what a civilised society does.

Just hope we are not being duped by those too lazy to put in a reasonable effort.

[tjg1677]

On ‎12‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 0:22 PM, Hylander said:

I know what you mean,  a bit like these people who rock up to A & E with a cut finger looking for a plaster.   When did we become a nation of people who have no common sense or aptitude.      Emergency services are there in case of dire emergency not at everyone's beck and call whenever they feel the whim to dial them up.

 

 

When we became a nation ruled by the health and safety culture..........

[Gracie]

I remember years ago my Dad going to the aid of an elderly couple with a grandchild on board, they were making an awful shamble of mooring up, bashing into the bank and bashing into us. My Dad and Brothers called out to them asking if they would mind if they helped, which they didn't. When they were safely moored up, they told Dad it was their first boating holiday and although the tuition at hand over was very good, they were terrified and asked my Dad to take them back to their hire yard. It wasn't their first attempt at mooring, they had tried the stern on under the bridge at Wroxham and were met with shouts from people not wanting them to hit their boats and one woman shouted something along the lines of "Do these hire companies know what class of idiot they're are hiring out to now", Before we start calling people, morons, numpties and idiots please try and remember it's not always the case and there may be genuine reasons that people get themselves into such predicaments

They were the sweetest old couple you could ever wish to meet but they won't be going back to the Broads any time soon

Grace

 

[Wussername]

Well said Gracie.

Andrew

 

[SwanR]

We did meet a very nice elderly gent last week who we helped to moor up. He told us that after six hours of finding himself unable to moor he had returned to Richardson's to ask for another trial run so they could show him how to stern-on moor again. I would imagine that someone helped him and that it was the next day that he went back to the yard. They said he was doing everything fine, he just needed to do it a bit more slowly. 

As for hirers being out and about too late in the day, I suspect that partly this is what happens when the moorings are so full - it's not like when you are out in your car and it's probably only a few minutes to somewhere else that you can stop. Not everyone would be confident to wild moor - we've never done it ourselves. Mud weighting in a broad would be our next option ... but you've still got to get there first.

[Baitrunner]

Talking to a friend who was out last week he said it was extremely busy and they had problems finding mooring spots on a few occasions, especially up North. So easy to get caught out if your a first timer.

There are definitely different types of hirer out there - those that know it all (but dont) and those that aren't that bad, but probably lack confidence. The latter often accept help, the former will blatt around full forward, full astern and hitting things and refuse to accept any help.

I have met both, offered help to both and it takes about 3 seconds to realise what type they are.

I helped a guy in at Surlingham last week - tight stern on mooring and just told him to go dead slow which he did. Took his rope from the bow of one of the moored boats (would have asked if it was alright to walk on their boat, but they were in the pub) and walked him into the mooring, but to be honest he had it perfectly lined up anyway. I told him he did it perfectly and think he was well chuffed. 

I have also seen the quay heading bashers who despite 3 ramings still refuse to listen.

So all sorts in both hire and private boats.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Jonzo said:

It was absolutely rammed this weekend, you just wouldn't believe it was September. We felt like we'd had the bargain of the year though, having paid just £100 a head for the long weekend and getting proper summer weather for it.

On saturday night we tried a few regular spots but weren't able to get moored and so headed on to Eastwood Whelpton which I know to usually be a good bet. It wasn't mega late, but probably half six by the time we were moored up. There were a few other boats behind us, with the others electing to head for Acle / Stokesby, which I can't imagine having gone well.

The loss of the Woodbastwick Staithe moorings has made a difference in my opinion, there's really nowhere to moor up for lunch etc in Horning now which is not good. I can't think of another waterway system with so few moorings compared to the number of boats on it.

Perhaps it's a case of too many boats for the available infrastructure? Horning & Wroxham are both saturated so why go there? 

[JennyMorgan]

I shall be heading up North in a week or so, under 'that' bridge but will I be heading up towards Wroxham? No, for one thing I probably won't be able to get a mooring!

[BroadScot]

37 minutes ago, Jonzo said:

We did, but the trouble is the lack of moorings displaces others meaning the usual less busy spots are more busy.

I don't think it's too many boats for the infrastructure, there are a lot less than there were and really boats aren't that much bigger. An RC45 is only three feet longer than a 1970's Aquafibre 42 and a foot longer than a Fair Entrepeneur 44 from 1986.

There are however,less smaller two berth hire craft than of days of old, Skipper. Like a whole fleet of Hamptons ! For example.

Iain

[BroadScot]

Just now, Jonzo said:

Yeah, very true. A two-berth in 1990 was still around 25ft, whereas now it'll be 35ft.

I think most yards had a Hampton bar Astons n Brooms.

[BroadScot]

Oops Southgate's didn't have either but they had lots of smaller craft.

[LondonRascal]

I don’t think one can blame new hire boats being longer, thus taking up moorings that once would have been able to accommodate more boats.  

Things do change and people are wanting more space on board a boat, and clearly these new larger craft which cost a great deal to hire are being well received by the fact they are booking well. 

What has suffered is infrastructure loss. This means finding a mooringh becomes a real issue – and many reviews I read from holiday makers praise the area, service from boatyard but talk of the anxiety of finding a mooring or having to moor up at lunchtime to sure the best places for the evening – it’s not good.

I remember as a kid going away with my parents that we sometimes would find ourselves cruising past mooring after mooring being full – but we also had in our minds the less nice but ‘back up’ plan of mooring in another companies boatyard.

There were many such boatyards – Wroxham, Horning, Potter Heigham, Womack Water, Stalham, Acle etc that be them Blakes or Hoseasons would have spaces – as such yards have closed as hire businesses and become increasingly taken up with private moorings, housing developments or simple lost to the sands of time pressure came on the other available riverside moorings.

Now we are losing many official BA moorings, the Environment Agency have done there bit too with the work they have done on flood defences and ‘re-profiling banks’ sweeping away many a nice mooring where one could use their Rhonde Anchors. 

The larger boats simple make the issue all the more noticeable.  

I know this is not popular, but the fact is it comes down to money.  If you own land and such land is used for mooring for hire boats or private craft alike, you do not make money out of it – if begin to  charge for mooring boats, I think rightly, people are miffed for paying for something that gives them nothing back – just a place to stop.

The only way forward I can see is if you had land owners working with the Broads Authority whereby riverside moorings were made available, managed through the Broads Authority, but paid for by all craft who moored there – with the provision of, for example Water, Electricity and refuse collection.

People would then get something for their mooring fee. How you collect such fees be it a chap coming round every few hours or an automated collection system it would mean they were being paid for independently which means their provision would surely be more prolific.

[grendel]

why not have paid moorings such as you suggest, with a camera system to take the registration number, then when you get back to the hire yard at the end of your stay, you pay the mooring fees, similar to the bridge pilots fees. this avoids the need for someone to collect the fees. the only difficulty would be with private boats- how to collect from them?

[Baitrunner]

Private boats go free.

The other issue is public liability insurance.

Wild mooring is an option or mud weighting, but I bet a lot of visitors want to be near a pub, restaurant, take away, shop when they moor. It's OK having food on board for those days you cant moor, but some people do want to know where they will be and what they will be eating. 

Pre-booking works, but many places you can do that will soon get booked in advance if everyone does it.

Come October it will be getting quiet again until Easter.

[JennyMorgan]

Have the Hamptons in private hands grown bigger? I doubt it & they are still around. 

What has happened, I think, is that the provision of private moorings has blossomed but the trouble is, unlike most of the the hire yards and their boats, private boats need two moorings, their home base mooring and one for wherever they choose to go. A hire boat base mooring becomes vacant and available to other hire boats. Where that fails is in the case of Richardsons, their seven hundred odd moorings might remain vacant as 700 odd boats from other yards don't visit Stalham. If the Waveney 24hr moorings are anything to go by then at weekends private boats rush off to their favourite mooring and hog that mooring all weekend rather than actually going boating/cruising meaning that hireboats are often excluded at the weekend hence their searching for moorings on their first night. I really do think that private boat mooring providers should accept visitors to vacant moorings, that simple solution would surely be in every one's best interests.