Radio Norfolk And Broads Speeding

[Poppy]

There was some coverage this morning of the thorny issue of speeding boats again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056zc19

It wouild seem that those who say the problem is worse this year may have a point.....

[dnks34]

Someone hung their phone out the window of their boat and filmed us passing the Beachamp Arms over the weekend.  

Not sure why as I wasnt speeding, we were very near to the opposite bank and against the tide, our boat also creates very little wash.

My 12 year old son was driving anyway!!

[JennyMorgan]

Maybe, dnks34, the owner of of the phone was a busybody and concerned about the young age of your son.

Navigation Bylaws, (1) Subject to paragraphs (2) (3) and (4) no person below the age of 14 years shall be at the helm of a power-driven vessel. (2) Subject to paragraph (5) a person who has reached the age of 8 years but is below the age of 14 years may be at the helm of a power-driven vessel provided that the following conditions are satisfied: (a) The vessel is an open boat of 4.5m (14 feet 9 inches) length or less; and (b) The vessel if propelled by an outboard motor has engine power of not more than 4.47 kw (or equivalent rating) or if powered by an inboard motor is incapable of attaining a speed greater than 8 mph through the water; and (c) That person is under the supervision of a person, whether or not in the vessel, over the age of 18 years.

[Gracie]

Oh dear, my dad taught me to helm from the age of about six, I thought pinching a Cadbury's Cream Egg from a shop once was as bad ass as I've ever been........You don't suppose Stuart will arrest me now, do you? (I live in hope )

Grace

[dnks34]

Never even considered that JM!

I was sat right behind him but hes very good, hes even allowed to do the Chet and the New Cut! 

[ExMemberBobdog]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Maybe, dnks34, the owner of of the phone was a busybody and concerned about the young age of your son.

Navigation Bylaws, (1) Subject to paragraphs (2) (3) and (4) no person below the age of 14 years shall be at the helm of a power-driven vessel. (2) Subject to paragraph (5) a person who has reached the age of 8 years but is below the age of 14 years may be at the helm of a power-driven vessel provided that the following conditions are satisfied: (a) The vessel is an open boat of 4.5m (14 feet 9 inches) length or less; and (b) The vessel if propelled by an outboard motor has engine power of not more than 4.47 kw (or equivalent rating) or if powered by an inboard motor is incapable of attaining a speed greater than 8 mph through the water; and (c) That person is under the supervision of a person, whether or not in the vessel, over the age of 18 years.

Yup, that's paragraph 2 regarding navigation by minors, but paragraph 3 makes clear that youngsters between the age of 8 and 14 can helm bigger vessels, for example hire cruisers, provided they are under the direct supervision of an adult.

[Wyndham]

6 minutes ago, Bobdog said:

..... youngsters between the age of 8 and 14 can helm bigger vessels, for example hire cruisers,......

.....better than Mrs W, and she won't even clump me for saying so.

Regarding speeding, by far the majority observe the limits, a few go too quick, just like on the roads. it's not right but it's the way things are, IMO of course.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Bobdog said:

Yup, that's paragraph 2 regarding navigation by minors, but paragraph 3 makes clear that youngsters between the age of 8 and 14 can helm bigger vessels, for example hire cruisers, provided they are under the direct supervision of an adult.

Quite right, Bob, but just maybe the 'busybody' wasn't aware of para 3!

[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, dnks34 said:

Never even considered that JM!

I was sat right behind him but hes very good, hes even allowed to do the Chet and the New Cut! 

And quite right too!

[Chelsea14Ian]

Grace hello hello hello.You will be fined a large bottle of wine for such a crime

[ExSurveyor]

I watched a young lad of about 10 practicing mooring side on and stern on in his grandads boat while grandad was happily reading his paper.  He tied up,  turned off,  restarted, cast off and maneuvered around the river.  Granddad relaxed.  Not a bow thruster to be heard. Oh,  the boat was a twin engine 45 foot gin palace.  That young man was an expert single hand  helm,  very calm and competent.  So much for the rules

[ZimbiIV]

We came past the Beauchamp yesterday and there was a sign next to the speed board saying. Speeding will be filmed and reported.

This was on both up and down river signs, I didn't notice them on Monday.

paul

 

[Wildfuzz]

12 hours ago, Gracie said:

Oh dear, my dad taught me to helm from the age of about six, I thought pinching a Cadbury's Cream Egg from a shop once was as bad ass as I've ever been........You don't suppose Stuart will arrest me now, do you? (I live in hope )

Grace

Oh the temptation Gracie   I cannot believe you would really want a 6` man in uniform with handcuffs to deprive you of your liberty

[RumPunch]

Back to the speeding thing. There is no requirement to have a speedo, is there ? Therefore if you are pulled for being a mile or two per hour over the limit, how can they prove intent or knowledge, especially if you are not in sight of other vessels to compare relative speeds.

If you are belting along and it's obvious that's a different matter....

[Poppy]

17 minutes ago, RumPunch said:

Back to the speeding thing. There is no requirement to have a speedo, is there ? Therefore if you are pulled for being a mile or two per hour over the limit, how can they prove intent or knowledge, especially if you are not in sight of other vessels to compare relative speeds.

If you are belting along and it's obvious that's a different matter....

WASH!  Watch your wash.

[ranworthbreeze]

It is the effects of your wash on the river banks which is the issue. The wash can vary from boat type to boat type. The worse wash I have seen on the rivers tends to be from the small boats used for accompanying sculling crews.

Regards

Alan 

[Poppy]

Planing hulls used within the Broads speed limits also create far more wash than is acceptable, being operated well below their design speeds.

 

[RumPunch]

Very true - In a rescue launch, on the plane, I make less wash than at 5 kts

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

It is the effects of your wash on the river banks which is the issue. The wash can vary from boat type to boat type. The worse wash I have seen on the rivers tends to be from the small boats used for accompanying sculling crews.

Regards

Alan 

Well said that man , it most certainly is those pesky boats I reported one only last Friday , he flatly refused to slow down even when asked his speed at this point was approximately 10 mph in a 5 mph zone right past the moorings , his excuse was he's allowed he's its a coaching boat , OK do how do you coach a rowing team when they are behind you ?? , as usually it was the arrogant Norwich school again , they think they can do just what they dam well please BA on the other hand know full well as do I that they can't and can only speed under certain conditions and they must not disturb others by creating huge wash at a BA mooring , my advice would be to ring it in as on a few occasions i have talked to them directly I have had students square up to me n I'm not joking either even the UEA have done that n they are just as bad hence now if I need to speak to them I take the dog with me , BA know all about them they are without a doubt the biggest cause of bank erosion on the upper yare by a long way .

[JennyMorgan]

In my mind there is some confusion over speed-limits and no doubt that the Authority needs to sit down and reconsider their bylaws. For a kick-off the issue of speed through the water or speed over the land, long been a contentious issue with experienced boaters, especially those of us on the more tidal rivers. Hire yards are happy to fit every known comfort of home, provided it's electrical, yet they don't generally have GPS on their boats. No excuse for folk to speed but a rethink by all concerned would seem reasonable, especially as modern technology has come on leaps and bounds since the bylaw was drawn up.

[addicted]

Rowers on the River Great Ouse were a nightmare in particular the accompanying  boats which went at whatever speed they fancied and any attempt to get them to slow down was met with foul mouthed abuse, they behaved as if they owned the river and on the Cam were even worse.  We used to moor on the river front  on Ely marina and the Kings school used to have a group of  rowers supposedly under instruction, except the arrogant so and so who was supposed to be  supervising them was usually off enjoying himself while his pupils were crashing into the hulls of moored boats Any attempt to make him do his job was met with rudeness.

On the subject of young helms people, No.1 Granddaughter Mollie was 4 when granddad first allowed her to take the helm of our Fairline 29' under very close supervision of course, She actually made  a very good job of it.

 

 

Carole

[Paladin]

3 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

In my mind there is some confusion over speed-limits and no doubt that the Authority needs to sit down and reconsider their bylaws. For a kick-off the issue of speed through the water or speed over the land, long been a contentious issue with experienced boaters, especially those of us on the more tidal rivers. Hire yards are happy to fit every known comfort of home, provided it's electrical, yet they don't generally have GPS on their boats. No excuse for folk to speed but a rethink by all concerned would seem reasonable, especially as modern technology has come on leaps and bounds since the bylaw was drawn up.

GPS is cheap, easy to fit (or hand-hold) and accurately indicates speed over land to 0.1mph. The radar guns used by the rangers, while not especially cheap, are just as easy and accurate to use to measure a vessel's speed over land.

What equivalent technological device is available  for the rangers to use to enable them to measure speed through the water of a vessel some distance away from them?

[addicted]

3 hours ago, RumPunch said:

Back to the speeding thing. There is no requirement to have a speedo, is there ? Therefore if you are pulled for being a mile or two per hour over the limit, how can they prove intent or knowledge, especially if you are not in sight of other vessels to compare relative speeds.

If you are belting along and it's obvious that's a different matter....

We were once told by a BA ranger who, even though we were not speeding, was complaining about our wash that such was the esteem they were held in by magistrates that if they took a speeding boater to court they (the BA) would not be  required to prove that the offence was committed their word would be enough for the magistrate to convict! I hope not!

 

 

Carole

[Viking23]

My grandson, aged 3 3/4 took the helm of our Viking 23 a couple of weeks ago, I could clearly see the river and all users through the cabin windows, as I kept a hand over the steering wheel, now to all intents and purposes, any passing boat would only see our grandson at the wheel, and possibly a shinny bald head out of shot. lol.

Now he soon got the hang of it, when a boat came close he said...

"Hide Grandad ... Hide"  we had to chuckle. 

He took great pride in knowing he was seen as the skipper.

We took his high back car seat from the car and lashed that to the boat helm seat, he had his life jacket on and he was really comfortable. 

Starting them early, is not a bad thing, as long as there is a responsible adult within arms reach of the helm at all times.

 

Richard

[JennyMorgan]

29 minutes ago, Paladin said:

GPS is cheap, easy to fit (or hand-hold) and accurately indicates speed over land to 0.1mph. The radar guns used by the rangers, while not especially cheap, are just as easy and accurate to use to measure a vessel's speed over land.

What equivalent technological device is available  for the rangers to use to enable them to measure speed through the water of a vessel some distance away from them?

Surely a simple case of adding or deducting tidal flow from the measured speed of the vessel. Where there is a will then surely there is a way.