Dunkirk (film)

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

And if it does so what? It was produced to be enjoyed for what it is, not to reflect accurately what occurred.

Daffodils.

[JennyMorgan]

Vaughan, you really do need to watch the film. I have more than a sneaking suspicion that despite the plastic fenders you will be impressed. Definitely no rose tinted glasses involved. 

[marshman]

Vaughan- why does it have to accurate? Most young people I know who have seen it were more than impressed by the film and what it portrayed! My guess is that the film would have a much greater impression that any accurate portrayal with correct piers and no plastic fenders would ever have.

Lots of people watch the BBC News expecting it to be factually correct but often its not, similarly the Daily Mail but people still watch and believe all of that, with no regard to the fact it can perpetuate "fake news"

[Vaughan]

Marshman I know you enjoy provocation but even I would have thought that my reply to you yesterday should have been sufficient.

I am certainly not going to rise to your bait on a subject which has nothing (directly) to do with the Norfolk Broads.

There's no point.

[JennyMorgan]

I might not agree entirely with Marsh's latest posting but in principle he does have a point. Absolute accuracy is probably unachievable now so why make another Dunkirk film? Mrs Miniver was undeniably a feel good propaganda film. The John Mills one was good, and probably reasonably accurate, but it lacked the biting atmosphere and raw emotion of the 2017 offering. At the end of which I was choked up, I really was and far more aware of what those that were involved must have felt, the terror and desperation was surely all pervading and that is what the film portrayed so effectively.  In my sincere opinion it is an effective tribute to those that were there.  Each to their own, but I believe that it needs watching.

[Bound2Please]

Mod hat off

It is a terrible shame that in another generation, the children of the UK and possibly the all the allies of the first and second world wars. Will only know of what there great grand parent stood up to for them to live how they are today. If inaccurate depictions of these two wars carries on, all accuracies of what happened will be lost, as these youngsters will think all the films are correct in the facts.

I do know that the first and and second world wars is no longer taught in the schools that my grand kids go to, as it might cause an upset to some nationalities that go to the school. I am sure that these schools are not alone in this, one of my grandsons got in trouble for wearing a poppy.

Enough of this, I hope those that enjoyed the film, thought of all who lost their lives in the actual event.

[Vaughan]

Thank you Charlie and you have hit it head on.

Perhaps I am not typical, since I was educated in a naval college, where almost all of the teachers had been reserve officers in the war. Even the headmaster was a serving Captain RN.

They told wonderful, and always funny, stories of what they had done. I remember our science master, who told of when his MTB flotilla in Southampton was fitted with a new secret weapon for sea trials. It was an adapted grenade thrower, designed to save ammunition by firing potatoes at the enemy! I only found out years later that this was a true story!

We also had engineering classes and the workshop was run by a warrant officer (E) who had spent most of the war on destroyers in the Med. Pangbourne is close to several airfields and whenever he heard the sound of a twin piston engined aircraft overhead, he dived under one of the benches and took cover. We were only 14 year old schoolboys but we never made fun of him. We understood, because all the adults we knew, had been through it.

We need to make sure that young people are told the truth about the war - especially such great events as Dunkirk - otherwise they will just read "war stories" and know no better.

[JohnK]

Aren’t these films produced to entertain and to make money?

Perhaps they shouldn’t be but that’s the harsh reality isn’t it?

As for the history doesn’t it just fade into the past given enough time? Again, perhaps it shouldn’t but it does doesn’t it? Can anyone other than historians give us an accurate description of Agincourt or Waterloo for example? Is that a problem?

Wouldn’t we expect accuracy from documentaries rather than films?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JennyMorgan]

Like Vaughan I grew up amongst those that had been there. My uncle had been an unwilling guest of the Japanese after the fall of Singapore, my school housemaster had been in Colditz Castle for the duration, an uncle ended up as a well decorated pilot, a close family friend drove diggers in Auschwitz filling up mass graves, I lost an uncle and cousin, both lost at sea and another as a victim of 'friendly fire' when the Hudson that he was flying was brought down. My father volunteered and went to the D-Day beaches on a US flak ship, hopefully to prevent them shooting down one of their own. He also flew in a Flying Fortress on one of the Thousand Bomber Raids for the same reason, he was in the Royal Observer-Corps. I could go on but I'm sure that you get my drift,  we mustn't forget, it's as simple as that. Dunkirk 2017 will help, I'm sure.

Vaughan, re Colditz, the Taverham teacher's name was Mr Long, Royal Norfolks. I only found out when a fellow pupil was loudly and continually waxing lyrical about Douglas Bader as being a hero. Obviously hit a raw nerve as Mr Long finally commented, relating to Bader's POW activities, he explained to those of us on his table just how he knew, the only time I ever heard him mention his wartime activities. Apparently Bader was rather foolhardy and put others and their escape projects at risk.

[TheQ]

I'm having a similar discussion on a kilt forum, due to enthusiasts for Outlander, which is a big hit there, but not here. Explaining to Americans that film and TV have little to do with real history, is sometimes difficult. 

This is the problem with inaccurate films, now an odd fender won't make much difference. But that travesty called Braveheart , or even worse the film U571. Both have people believing that that was true.

[JennyMorgan]

U571 was such a travesty of fact that I'm quite certain that it will go down in history as being just that. Coincidentally there is an incredibly interesting book out there written by the American naval commander that captured her. I later came to understand that in his quest for glory he came very near to being court martialed for jeopardizing the whole Enigma program in the run up to D-Day. 

[JennyMorgan]

A quick Google shows that my facts about U571 are also in error, see here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/774427.stm

[TheQ]

I'm glad you found that out, I had a book which mentioned the capture of u 110 long before the film came out.. I have a particular interest in the enigma machine and Bletchley park as I lived  there for a year and had lessons in some of the decoding rooms . Now it's a museum It would be interesting to go back and see what the particular rooms were used for.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Some interesting points of view on this, but i have`nt seen the film, so can`t comment. One thing i WILL say is that i`m in total aggreement with Vaughn in that i`m a bit of a stickler for accuracy in film and tv, because youngsters today NEVER get taught the true facts of important historical events.   If this film is NOT accurate, why call it Dunkirk, why not just call it a ficticious name, and say it`s is BASED on true events, "based" meaning just that, based on, not true to fact?.  Whether i watch the film or not remains to be seen, but the one thing i DON`T like in modern films is far too much reality in the form of blood and gore. Yes i like accuracy, but accuracy of events and outcomes, but not too much finer detail.   Watching other modern war films, i`ve seen screen shots where people get shot, and their chest, or back, or head is blown apart with blood etc splattering everywhere. Far to much fine detail, which i sometimes think MUST influence some in certain ways, and not neccesarily good ways.   I know some will say it shows what really happens etc, but if people watch such a film with young children around, i can`t help but think they may just find it very disturbing, and possibly have some effect on them.  It`s this sort of over dramatising reality that really and truly puts me off a lot of modern films, that and too much computer generation. 

Bring back the ABC minors i say, good old innocent films.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

On 12/30/2017 at 21:13, JennyMorgan said:

A quick Google shows that my facts about U571 are also in error, see here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/774427.stm

Yes, very inaccurate indeed, the yanks were never involved. As for the film itself, why did`nt the film makers used British actors, and made the submarine look like a British one. Hollywood twisting history again.   I beleive they even made a remake of the Dambusters using Liberators as the planes?.

[JennyMorgan]

Good ol' days!

[deebee29]

I remember going to these Saturday cinema mornings in the 60’s and they were as packed as this film shows. (Remember the adverts and prices as well)

It was the highlight of the week for us kids, everybody went

[CambridgeCabby]

Watched it last weekend , my youngest got it for me for Christmas , whilst I enjoyed it I much prefer the 1958 offering 

[stumpy]

I believe I'm still barred from Ipswich ABC (now shops) - a peashooter and the front row of the balcony were involved.

[JennyMorgan]

The balcony front row did seem to attract the trouble makers, at least in Ipswich and here in Lowestoft.

[TheQ]

I think the first time I went to the cinema was about Aged 17, there aren't to many cinemas, in the wilds of wiltshire or the outer hebridies...

[smellyloo]

Ahhhh ..... wonderful memories of the local flea pits.

Re: accuracy in the movies. Really? Movies are designed to entertain and evoke feelings. They would be very dull, and very long if they were to be true to real life events.

If you want accuracy then I feel you would be better served reading books on the subject that reflect all sides of the event.

[CambridgeCabby]

The first film I can actually remember seeing at the cinema was The Magnificent Seven , the most recent was an imax of Return of the Jedi 

[oceandawn]

We watched this over the New Year. Although it may not have been factually correct what it did do was to bring home the horror of it all. These soldiers were just kids. My late father in law was at Dunkirk and had related many of the dreadful things that these lads went though to my husband. Standing waist deep in water for hours on end tide after tide . Having legs crushed by the landing  craft . Keith could relate to the film and the stories that his Dad had told him.Lest we never forget.

[TheQ]

Actually at this stage in the war many of the soldiers were still full timers or reservists, not national service, so their average age was much higher than later in the war. My grandfather was 39/ 40 Having joined up in 1919.