The Broads Is Not A National Park!

[floydraser]

11 hours ago, Woodie said:

Powered craft on Windermere is a fraction of its former numbers since the speed limit was introduced. The 10knot limit was passed in 2000 with 5 years for business etc to change before enforcement in 2005. One of the LDNPA suggestions was for boatyards to sell canoes and kayaks to replace boat sales!! They suggested Loch Lomand as an alternative body of water-in another NP. They had to apologise for that one.

Businesses closed!

Heres the rub though. In the mid 90s their first attempt at control was to propose banning powered craft from Windermere. Think about that. Removing powered craft.

Fortunately they were reminded that Windermere has a legal right of navigation and legally they could not prevent any craft on the Lake. 

I can’t blame anyone for wanting to keep a close eye on the powers that be……..
 

Yes, businesses were given 5 years to adapt, so why were there boat sales businesses there still selling fast boats way after that date? Probably as a protest but still no surprise if they went.

The guardians of the Lakes are doing a good job of avoiding the fate of places like Newquay, Cornwall. It's where my youngest son did his courting/partying in the 90s. He finds it depressing now to see all the same venues still there, boarded up. Boom and bust.

I was up in the Lake District from Monday to Thursday last week. The hotel was as busy as I've ever seen it. We still had to queue for the buses which soon filled up. In early January. 

The Lakes are about the beauty of the place. Plenty of old quarries about to have a venue for fast boats and jetskis.

How about a few pot plant festooned narrowboats on Windermere? I'm sure someone could argue a right to live on one, affordable housing for the poor and all that. See what that would do for tourism!

[Tempest]

16 hours ago, Woodie said:

Powered craft on Windermere is a fraction of its former numbers since the speed limit was introduced. The 10knot limit was passed in 2000 with 5 years for business etc to change before enforcement in 2005

I had a speedboat registered in Lake Windermere.

Family and friends would go up most weekends for messing around on the water, water skiing and just enjoying the great outdoors.

We have wonderful memories of a vibrant place which catered for a wide variety of people from walkers, swimmers, water sports enthusiasts to those who just liked a coffee and cake and watch the world go by.

Sold it when the speed limit came in and haven't been back to Windermere since!

 

[marshman]

So, if you have not been back you will not be in a position to comment on whether its vibrant or not? The previous post seems to suggest it is just as so - like it or not I would suggest the ban came about simply because of the noise made by the high speed boats?

 It may be as vibrant but "quieter" as well !!!! I don't know but I guess the noise issue was caused by Windermere sitting in a natural basin and the noise just reverberated around - walkers on the fells surrounding the area certainly won't miss the noise caused by those boats. My guess is that in all probability there are just as many, but differing types of boats now.

I would be happy to be proved wrong and pictures of empty marinas will prove that!

[batrabill]

The visitor numbers dropped in 2022. 18 million visitors over a boom year in 2021 of 19 million. With an estimated revenue of £2.1 billion. 
 

Its hardly dying is it?

[Wussername]

Where is Lake Windermere ?  Can't find it on my Norfolk Broads map.

[rightsaidfred]

Please excuse my ignorance but why I are we discussing Lake Windomere, it is a glacial land locked lake and part of a much wider area ie the Lake District, the Broads are a tidal river system with some man made Lakes (broads) its chalk and cheese and has no bearing on the current discussion.

Fred

 

[batrabill]

It’s a good question. The main reason is that it is frequently said that if the Broads were to become a full National Park then boating would be banned/reduced. Hence a comparison with the other National Park where there is a substantial amount of boating. 
 

The incredibly obvious point being that there is lots of boating in the Lake District. 

[Wussername]

11 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Please excuse my ignorance but why I are we discussing Lake Windomere, it is a glacial land locked lake and part of a much wider area ie the Lake District, the Broads are a tidal river system with some man made Lakes (broads) its chalk and cheese and has no bearing on the current discussion.

Fred

 

I give up sometimes Fred, I really do.

Can we not have a constructive, focused discussion which relates to The  Norfolk Broads. 

Mission creep. Or Mission Control.

There needs to be a conversation, devoid of repercussions for those who fear retribution with regard to their sound believes concerning the future, our future.

 

 

 

[RS2021]

Another comparison would be Bannau Brycheiniog - like the Lake District a proper National Park. In 2016 Beacon Park Boats built a new boathouse and basin as a new base for their hire fleet on a greenfield site in the National Park. So boating businesses and National Parks are not necessarily incompatable. 

[floydraser]

It would seem that some people are so single minded about this National Park debate that they just don't want to hear anything about a National Park that is actually successful. The point I'm trying to make is that the success is down to those who embrace the idea and make it work, even with ups and downs. If the Broads could find a way, and find a trusted body to administer it....

It's a shame it can't be seen as a golden opportunity for the right reasons. It could be done for the future and with every respect for the past, it just needs work and some flexible ideas.

[grendel]

32 minutes ago, batrabill said:

The incredibly obvious point being that there is lots of boating in the Lake District. 

but does the national park there have the prime responsibility to maintain the navigation, i feel not.

[ExSurveyor]

The National Park model works quite well, the hybrid version that is suggested for The Broads doesn't under the existing leadership.

The Broads will never fit the NP mould and no amount of forcing it to will succeed, hence a separate and unique act of parliament was needed.

 

[batrabill]

This is like the good old days! In a moment Jenny Morgan will pop up to say John Packman is satan!

[Woodie]

Last post for me on this one, don’t want to hijack the thread with comparisons.

We are fortunate to spend a lot of our time ‘up there’ , having a couple of lodges in Keswick. Had a very pleasant Christmas and New Year there.(contact for details if you fancy a break-donation to forum. Unashamed ad!!)

 

The Lake District is certainly not struggling for visitors, New Year being high season was very busy. Indeed the present Authority are doing a reasonable job considering all the different groups and activities wanting their needs met, let alone the locals trying to make a living. I do know that the LDNPA are not overly popular with the locals! Indeed, I’m sure boating in all its forms only makes up a small proportion of tourist footfall.

Additionally, like Mr Raser,  these groups believe their ideals and vision for the NP are the right ones and activities they feel are not compatible are justifiably curtailed. A view they are fully entitled to. Mine is in this crowded isle of ours room is surely available for all with the relevant regulation to try and reduce anti social elements. Tricky to achieve I’m sure! That is probably where we are with the Broads now.

Oh, and don’t for one moment think Windermere is a quiet and peaceful area. As one of the main tourist centres  the amount of visitors, cars, motor bikes etc ensure it certainly isn’t. Many areas in the Lakes are peaceful if you know where to look! Again, each to their own, and the variety is good.

But none of the above is the drift of my original post. I was more concerned with how the Authority railroaded what they wanted and deemed correct through. From the farcical public enquiry where, amongst other issues, the lake rangers were not permitted to give evidence because in their view any minor issues were easily solvable (they even briefly went on strike until apparently their jobs were under threat!) How the Park Authorities refused to discuss or consider any alternative to a blanket limit. Their disregard for people’s livelihoods. As an aside the NP CEO at the time  stayed in position to see the limit introduced and retired almost immediately afterwards. Starting to sound like someone we know……

His successor has done a reasonable job given the above, and has just given his intention to leave at the end of the year.

I could go on, but I think you get the drift. We do need to be aware of how these Authorities seem to operate. 

It may be that overall boat numbers are similar, but comprise different craft.I really don’t know , but is that what we want for the Broads. Similar numbers, but different craft. Canoes, paddle boards etc. Think I know someone who might quite like that possibility.

Enough from me now. You hardly hear a peep from me, then this, although I usually pop on a couple of times a day. Must post more……..

 

[marshman]

Don't worry Woodie - every single thread suffers from thread drift and my suggestion on that is, if you don't want to read it, then don't!!! Do something more constructive with your time perhaps by scrolling through Faceache or watch Netflix!!

[rightsaidfred]

3 hours ago, RS2021 said:

Another comparison would be Bannau Brycheiniog - like the Lake District a proper National Park. In 2016 Beacon Park Boats built a new boathouse and basin as a new base for their hire fleet on a greenfield site in the National Park. So boating businesses and National Parks are not necessarily incompatable. 

Apart from all the other non boating differences there is also the major difference in that boats on NP waters don't pay for the upkeep, unlike the tolls for navigation upkeep on the Broads National parks only charge a small registration fee, so again I say why are we comparing the two when they are totally different animals, there are plenty of other waterways with far more in common with the Broads than NP ones.

Fred  

[Vaughan]

11 hours ago, batrabill said:

In a moment Jenny Morgan will pop up to say John Packman is satan!

Oh.

I thought he was Alladin?

[MargeandParge]

13 hours ago, Woodie said:

. As an aside the NP CEO at the time  stayed in position to see the limit introduced and retired almost immediately afterwards.

The difference between  characters is that some linger on poking and prodding for what seems like eternity. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Vaughan]

I notice that Rogerbarnes, who dug up this discussion on Thursday, has not yet returned to read the results.

Still, we seem to be getting on fairly well without him!    

[Woodie]

Prodded the hornets nest and ran….

28 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I notice that Rogerbarnes, who dug up this discussion on Thursday, has not yet returned to read the results.

Still, we seem to be getting on fairly well without him!    

 

[Vaughan]

10 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Prodded the hornets nest and ran….

I suppose one can hardly blame him!

 

[marshman]

Oh well - that's put that to bed with a bit of luck! Again!!!!

[floydraser]

12 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

, so again I say why are we comparing the two when they are totally different animals, there are plenty of other waterways with far more in common with the Broads than NP ones.

Fred  

Because people like you and I Fred, keep hitting the keyboard. It's just a harmless forum. 

This thread started as one of Jenny Morgan's weekly "lets keep the national park in the top of the top ten threads" actions. His legacy is still with us obviously.

[floydraser]

15 hours ago, Woodie said:

 

Additionally, like Mr Raser,  these groups believe their ideals and vision for the NP are the right ones and activities they feel are not compatible are justifiably curtailed. A view they are fully entitled to. Mine is in this crowded isle of ours room is surely available for all with the relevant regulation to try and reduce anti social elements. Tricky to achieve I’m sure! That is probably where we are with the Broads now.

 

 

Yep, it's truly a forum alright. That reads like I believe my ideals are the right ones. Not so. I just pointed out that whoever is making the decisions are doing a good job and I like what they are doing. If I didn't, I would go elsewhere. But It's a forum so you are free to interpret a view in a certain way so as to punctuate your own. 

[Vaughan]

17 minutes ago, floydraser said:

This thread started as one of Jenny Morgan's weekly "lets keep the national park in the top of the top ten threads" actions. His legacy is still with us obviously.

Excuse me but that one is "below the belt".

He is a very old friend of mine, largely because our fathers were as well.  They both played a leading role in the first Broads Study and Plan, by the Nature Conservancy in the 60s, and upon which the present day management of the Broads area is still very largely based.

Peter himself is an ex member of the BA and as such, was the only one I know who took the trouble to contribute to this forum in the way that he has.  His criticisms of the BA are based on his own (somewhat bitter) inside experience.   In other words, he knew what he was talking about.  There is no-one on the present forum who can say the same on this subject, including me.

Yes, he got a bit passionate at times and was eventually muzzled by moderation.  When we look around us at the shenanigans going on right now, we might reflect that he had very good reason!