Fishermen Without Boats Fishing On BA Moorings.

[grendel]

I have seen both the anglers with a huge trolley full of gear dragging them great distances along the banks of the Yare, and similarly I have seen fishermen walking along a river with just a rod and a bag, occasionally flicking a line into the water, then moving on. I did wonder at the sheer quantity of gear that some anglers seem to need (ok one time there must have been a match on as there were dozens of anglers with the trolleys of gear), but as a non fisher I dont really understand I guess. also the one that seems strange to me are those that turn up with huge long poles that seem to reach almost to the opposite bank, who then when a boat comes along have to retract the poles to allow passage- its really amusing though when there are fishermen both sides seeming preferring the opposite side to where they are seated.

My only ask as a boater is that fishermen make themselves visible more, I try and move more to the middle when there are fishermen, but some seem to delight in wearing camoflage and using rods that are invisible against the bank, so my apologies if I havent moved to the centre of the river in every instance as its more than probable I didnt see you.

[YnysMon]

To echo Grendel’s post. I generally try to be considerate of fisherfolk by moving to the centre of the river, but it’s sometimes difficult to spot them until last minute. 

[rightsaidfred]

12 hours ago, Norfolkangler said:

Well I know this is a while since the original posting but it seems that we have got nowhere.

I write this purely as a local angler for the last 50 + years. I must say that I agree with both sides. I sympathise fully with the boating fraternity as I know the tolls are not cheap. All I seem to read about lately are the loss of BA 24hr moorings so I totally agree that you are paying more but getting less. 

Some of you state that there is lots of bank available for the fisherman, please feel free to share these areas because I, as a local to the Broads, and most of my fellow anglers are not aware of many. That's exactly why the 24hr moorings get used by anglers.

Yes I agree again with the fact that the EA along with the BASG have provided platforms and purpose built swims in certain places, the two that are regularly mentioned being Postwick and fleet dyke. It looked great progress at poswick when they  first cleared the bank put the swims in in but look at the wider picture and you will see that they never even bothered to clear the weed, cabbages and lillies that are predominant along the bank of this particular stretch of the Yare, or if they did it came back with in the first season meaning that if you were to catch any decent fish, the probability is that it would be lost along with tackle in that weed,  hence the reason why (I must point out that I don't) anglers choose to fish from the moorings opposites the pub as the weed is not there because the bed is dredged or whatever to allow for mooring and are not loosing tackle continuously. Combine that with the parking issue if all the swims were to be taken, where would all the cars park?

Fleet dyke, again great platforms but the closest parking is the public car park at the stathe. anyone fancy dragging their tackle all that way from the car park to the platforms. I dont know of anyone. Perhaps if agreement/permission could be sought from the boatyard at the end of the lane for a small charge. £5 a day/night would seem a reasonable charge and would be extra revenue (all be it small) for the boat yard that would encourage anglers to use them. It certainly would do it for me and talking to other anglers it would do it for them to.

I have (and always will) move to allow a boat to moor up, but I have, on one occasion, at Bramerton, with yards of bank both sides of me, had a boat insisting on mooring where I and my friend were fishing. It was is if he was making a point that he could.

We should, and must ALL get on. As has been mentioned several times on this post, the Broads are for ALL to enjoy, not those who pay the most.

Whilst we are on the topic of 24Hr moorings, I walk my dogs along the Waveney regularly, and this year have seen more and more of the liveaboards tied up for extended periods. On one occasion two boats were moored at Somerleyton for in excess of 5 weeks on the 24hr moorings.  

 

    

As both an Angler and boat owner I can sympathise with most of your comments, however while I agree access is limited on most of the system if you only want free fishing there are spots like Geldston Dyke, Beccles, Oulton Broad, Langley, top of Upton Dyke, Thurne Mouth above Potter Heighm Bridge, Ludham Bridge, Waterworks Staithe and Swan corner etc. If you are happy to buy a club ticket then there are the NDAA waters and the other match stretches at Langley to Rockland etc.

Fred

[Gracie]

I and my family are really just pleasure anglers and fair weather fisher people, we don't care what we catch although we do go for carp on our local lakes. Those lakes have Sunday matches and the amount of gear some of them have, I do wonder why they need all that stuff. All we ever take is rods, net, landing mat and bait and normally have a thoroughly lovely time.  They must need that amount of gear for a reason, especially when in a match I suppose.

Please could someone tell me why on earth the ruddy great poles that are cast practically to the opposite bank, just fish on the opposite bank   x

[rightsaidfred]

9 minutes ago, Gracie said:

I and my family are really just pleasure anglers and fair weather fisher people, we don't care what we catch although we do go for carp on our local lakes. Those lakes have Sunday matches and the amount of gear some of them have, I do wonder why they need all that stuff. All we ever take is rods, net, landing mat and bait and normally have a thoroughly lovely time.  They must need that amount of gear for a reason, especially when in a match I suppose.

Please could someone tell me why on earth the ruddy great poles that are cast practically to the opposite bank, just fish on the opposite bank   x

The main reason for a pole over other methods is the degre of control it gives.

Fred

[Mouldy]

29 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

The main reason for a pole over other methods is the degre of control it gives.

Fred

They might give a degree of control over where you fish, but anglers using them on busy rivers during the main boating season strikes me as being selfish.  Don’t get me wrong, if I see an angler, I will try to move into the middle of the river, but it really grinds my gears when one is hiding in the reeds, fishing with a pole, that you can’t see and you get a waved fist and a torrent of abuse from them as you pass.

Surely, common sense dictates that you either make it so that either you, or your tackle (fishing) can be seen by passing boat traffic.  It’s obviously not so bad during the quieter months with less boat traffic - save the poles for the winter! 

[rightsaidfred]

27 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

They might give a degree of control over where you fish, but anglers using them on busy rivers during the main boating season strikes me as being selfish.  Don’t get me wrong, if I see an angler, I will try to move into the middle of the river, but it really grinds my gears when one is hiding in the reeds, fishing with a pole, that you can’t see and you get a waved fist and a torrent of abuse from them as you pass.

Surely, common sense dictates that you either make it so that either you, or your tackle (fishing) can be seen by passing boat traffic.  It’s obviously not so bad during the quieter months with less boat traffic - save the poles for the winter! 

I wouldn't use the word selfish that applies more to those on boats who spread themselves out on a mooring and not just Anglers, I agree that on the rivers the use of a long pole is not appropriate at times nor always necessary but that is an individuals choice, as for hiding in the reeds that is usually more to do with the terrain than choice, the big need here is for tolerance on both sides and accepting that we all have the same right to use the waterways in our preferred way.

Fred

[Mouldy]

23 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I wouldn't use the word selfish that applies more to those on boats who spread themselves out on a mooring and not just Anglers, I agree that on the rivers the use of a long pole is not appropriate at times nor always necessary but that is an individuals choice, as for hiding in the reeds that is usually more to do with the terrain than choice, the big need here is for tolerance on both sides and accepting that we all have the same right to use the waterways in our preferred way.

Fred

To me, if you fish in an area that is busy, hiding in the reeds with a pole that extends across the river, on The Thurne between Thurne Mill and Womack Dyke for example, it should come as no surprise to an angler that neither he/she nor his/her pole, will be seen and he/she will be disturbed.  In that case, although it’s an individual’s choice, malevolence towards someone passing on a boat, is unnecessary.

Its a similar situation to that when you arrive at a popular mooring, such as Neatishead Staithe, during the tourist season, to find an angler at the dyke end of the moorings, with kit spread out and two or three rods on rests, who becomes visibly annoyed at having to move to allow a boat to moor.

As in all walks of life, exercising just a modicum of common sense could prevent confrontational situations from arising.

[rightsaidfred]

Quite agree

Fred

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, rightsaidfred said:

Quite agree

Fred

So do I.

Over the years I have found that a lot of this boils downs to  "Who owns the rivers, then?  You on your boat or me, with my rights to fish where I please?".   Someone has also posed the question "Who pays for the navigation?"  Fishermen pay for a licence (to some quango or another) but does this pay for the maintenance of the waterway in which they fish?

By the way, a little question of definition :  These long poles that we are talking about are called "Perch poles".

Does this mean they are specially adapted for the catching of Perch - which are (or at least were) common on the Broads - or does it refer to the French word "perche" which means to reach out over a distance, especially when referring to a crane jib or a derrick?

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

 

By the way, a little question of definition :  These long poles that we are talking about are called "Perch poles".

 

I don`t know where that comes from, I know they are popular in many countries but in the UK they were always know as Roach Poles, the original Sowerbutts bamboo poles go back to the 17th century and were only limited by weight, I grew up using one in the 1950s once I had enough strength to hold one.

The modern poles have grown in length as lighter materials have become available, fibre glass, carbon fibre, graphite and now various composites, to help with understanding of their use they have largely been developed for match fishing where they allow more delicate and accurate presentation at distance over other methods and at speed.

As for the broads no one group or mode has any more right of use over anyone else, while some activities might have to pay for access the waters are free to all.

Fred

[floydraser]

Fishing poles fascinate me. As Fred said, they used to be called Roach poles. Back when I started fishing with my older brother there were certain things we were taught that don't seem to apply these days. Don't make a noise on the bank because the fish can feel it through the water. Roach were said to be very "tackle shy" and the normal splash of conventional tackle would frighten them away so we used very light tackle for them. The idea of the pole was that you could quietly drop the tackle into the water without the splash.

Fast forward 40 years and it's a different kettle of.... oh.

I've just checked, Angling Direct have a special offer and the most expensive pole is currently reduced from £7,150 to a mere £5,500, grab a bargain quick!

Watching the pros use them on Youtube is an eye opener: If the fish aren't biting one technique is to flip the end of the pole so the tackle whips over the top and makes a splash! This is because a lot of matches take place in commercial lakes where the stock comes from a fish farm, where the fish are used to being fed by someone chucking food into the water.

It's why I can't see the point of using a pole on a natural water or canal. Especially a canal where the pole sticks out behind the fisherman so apart from boats, he has to move for dog walkers etc. as well! Fishing poles are also beefed up to catch large carp now.

[rightsaidfred]

The reason they are used on canals is because of the shallowness and clarity most fish hug the far shelf, the biggest issue is that most non fishing boaters don't understand angling and likewise many anglers don't understand boating.

Fred

[Norfolkangler]

12 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

As both an Angler and boat owner I can sympathise with most of your comments, however while I agree access is limited on most of the system if you only want free fishing there are spots like Geldston Dyke, Beccles, Oulton Broad, Langley, top of Upton Dyke, Thurne Mouth above Potter Heighm Bridge, Ludham Bridge, Waterworks Staithe and Swan corner etc. If you are happy to buy a club ticket then there are the NDAA waters and the other match stretches at Langley to Rockland etc.

Fred

Thanks for the info Fred. I am familiar with most of the places above but it goes back to Access. Not rights of way access but distance. I am not a youngster being in my 60s and most of the places above entail a lengthy walk which I have done in years gone by but unfortunately am no longer up to it. Yes I know that's me I am talking about but I would say that this applies to a lot of the local anglers  (or at least this is my experience with most of the anglers I meet on the broads except holiday anglers) as the younger generation seem to want the commercialised ponds etc as its easier fishing, and almost guaranteed to get a result. 

Yes there are some good clubs out there, and they are not unreasonable prices to join, but as I no longer fish matches, and prefer to fish a variety of locations throughout the system I really don't want to tie myself down to one particular area.

Yes I do take a lot of gear with me (no where near as much as the match angler with barrows etc) because most of my fishing is at night. This is for two reasons. I have learnt over the years that bream in particular, feed better after dark but also  It avoids being disturbed  (mostly, there are still a few who insist on moving after dark)by the boats.

A lot of this issue with access, as I understand it is down to rights of way and landowners. Understandably, land owners do not want just anybody on their land so favour leasing it to an angling club. The clubs in turn require public liability insurance which will not cover access during the hours of darkness. 

I guess if I am perfectly honest, unless money is involved and forthcoming, I really can not see anything changing.

We are not asking for purpose made platforms etc, most would be happy to just have some bankside vegetation/reeds cut etc, to allow fishing from upstream and downstream of various moorings  or locations. That is what the good old "Rivers Authority" used to do back in the day.    

[rightsaidfred]

53 minutes ago, Norfolkangler said:

Thanks for the info Fred. I am familiar with most of the places above but it goes back to Access. Not rights of way access but distance. I am not a youngster being in my 60s and most of the places above entail a lengthy walk which I have done in years gone by but unfortunately am no longer up to it. Yes I know that's me I am talking about but I would say that this applies to a lot of the local anglers  (or at least this is my experience with most of the anglers I meet on the broads except holiday anglers) as the younger generation seem to want the commercialised ponds etc as its easier fishing, and almost guaranteed to get a result. 

Yes there are some good clubs out there, and they are not unreasonable prices to join, but as I no longer fish matches, and prefer to fish a variety of locations throughout the system I really don't want to tie myself down to one particular area.

Yes I do take a lot of gear with me (no where near as much as the match angler with barrows etc) because most of my fishing is at night. This is for two reasons. I have learnt over the years that bream in particular, feed better after dark but also  It avoids being disturbed  (mostly, there are still a few who insist on moving after dark)by the boats.

A lot of this issue with access, as I understand it is down to rights of way and landowners. Understandably, land owners do not want just anybody on their land so favour leasing it to an angling club. The clubs in turn require public liability insurance which will not cover access during the hours of darkness. 

I guess if I am perfectly honest, unless money is involved and forthcoming, I really can not see anything changing.

We are not asking for purpose made platforms etc, most would be happy to just have some bankside vegetation/reeds cut etc, to allow fishing from upstream and downstream of various moorings  or locations. That is what the good old "Rivers Authority" used to do back in the day.    

I totally understand where you are coming from, being somewhat older I fully appreciate having my own mobile peg and tackle carrier and doubt I would be able to cope otherwise, just by its very nature most of the system will always be inaccessible to bank anglers.

Sadly as with most things a few have spoilt it for the many, I am quite happy to share a mooring with anglers and have done so many times as long as they don't hinder me mooring up, I always enjoy the company and think we have learnt from each other, unfortunately there are those on both sides who won't compromise.

If you want to night fish with easy access you could try either end of the Parish staithe at Irstead or the  car park section at Woodbastwick opposite the Ferry Inn, there is also the upstream bit  by Decoy Broad.

Good Fishing

Fred

[Norfolkangler]

3 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I totally understand where you are coming from, being somewhat older I fully appreciate having my own mobile peg and tackle carrier and doubt I would be able to cope otherwise, just by its very nature most of the system will always be inaccessible to bank anglers.

Sadly as with most things a few have spoilt it for the many, I am quite happy to share a mooring with anglers and have done so many times as long as they don't hinder me mooring up, I always enjoy the company and think we have learnt from each other, unfortunately there are those on both sides who won't compromise.

If you want to night fish with easy access you could try either end of the Parish staithe at Irstead or the  car park section at Woodbastwick opposite the Ferry Inn, there is also the upstream bit  by Decoy Broad.

Good Fishing

Fred

Thanks Fred,

I can remember in years gone by, (several years gone by) early mornings, sharing a cup of tea and even breakfast was not uncommon with folks on boats. I suppose we all reminisce back to the "Good old days" 

I have spent time this season emailing and talking to various local clubs. The NDAA along with Gt Yarmouth and district which are the 2 main ones with most bankspace have been more than helpful but unfortunately, the situation we find ourselves in is mainly down to irresponsible anglers. I note you mention the car park at Woodbastwick which was one of my winter haunts for years. There are now signs up informing us that it is NDAA members only and NO night fishing.

When I spoke to the club secretary of the NDAA  I was told  that they were approached by the landowner (Cator), and asked to take this part on as well as the downstream stretch because he was fed up with all the goings on at night down there.  Apparently loud music, drinking and BBQs that as soon as a fish was caught were being thrown straight on the BBQ !!!!!.

I fully understand and would agree that if it were my land I would have done the same thing. Another stretch of bank gone!!!

I have spoken to the secretary of another club and it looks more promising in as much as providing you are a season ticket holder and not a day ticket holder, and providing you pre arrange with the secretary by supplying membership number and vehicle details it is possible to fish through the night. I fully intend to join next season as that will allow me to fish through out the summer months in what are essentially "Wild" swims and a concessionary season ticket is extreme good value. Parking will not be an issue which should allow me ta access a variety of swims.        

[grendel]

7 hours ago, Norfolkangler said:

We are not asking for purpose made platforms etc, most would be happy to just have some bankside vegetation/reeds cut etc, to allow fishing from upstream and downstream of various moorings  or locations. That is what the good old "Rivers Authority" used to do back in the day.

in places this lack of trimming back is affecting the boaters too, a large portion of the quay heading along rockland dyke wasnt trimmed last year rendering a few hundred yards of mooring as unavailable because of nettles right to the quay heading making it impossible to get off to attach the ropes - some people are taking measures such as carrying cheap cordless strimmers and clearing sections for themselves which benefits both fishermen and boaters.

[Norfolkangler]

Well we finished off the season at Neatishead staithe. I know it can get busy so leave this venue till late on. Sat there at the entrance on Monday and around the middle of the afternoon, a large boat comes along. Not an issue. Lines came out of the water for them to come in. There were only TWO other boats at the staithe, one half way down, the other at the end by the recycling bins. This particular boat decided to moor up dead opposite our spot at the entrance.  Yes I know they had the right, but with only 2 other boats and 80% of the moorings available why choose to moor directly in front of where we were fishing.  

[grendel]

Isnt that where the electric post is though, so understandable if they wanted an electric hookup.

[rightsaidfred]

The electric posts are halfway down.

Fred.

[bucket]

If you are planning to leave early the next morning it is much easier to get away if you are moored at the end. It spares your neighbours from a bumpy early awakening, particularly if there are a couple of the newer, larger cruisers opposite each other.

It is also far more interesting viewing at the end, both wildlife and watching the boats turn. 

I don't know if these were the reason yesterday, but for me personally, the end of the dyke is one of my favourites.

[BroadAmbition]

Yes I know they had the right, but with only 2 other boats and 80% of the moorings available why choose to moor directly in front of where we were fishing.  

Because they were being inconsiderate imho

Leaving early next morning can still be achieved no matter how quite / busy the moorings are with care and consideration.

As for picking that spot for the view - Selfish - considering you were already there first.  I would have been embarrassed to disturb your swim and would have kept well clear.  Then offered you a hot drink as I do to most if not all bank side fisherman

Griff

[bucket]

I respect your views as always Griff, but we all have our favourite moorings, for different reasons.

[NorfolkNog]

We encountered a very considerate fisherman at Neatishead in February. We always approach slowly, he asked if we wanted the Staithe, Mrs Nog indicated we did. He moved his rod for us, we pulled in, moved down and gently turned the boat on the ropes before mooring. I have also reversed out before now. But it's possible that if a boater doesn't want to turn the boat or reverse out they will moor at the top. As Griff says, a bit of condsideration can work both ways. Incidentally we often turn the boat on the ropes but it's suprising the number of folk who don't seem to  understand what we are doing.

[rightsaidfred]

26 minutes ago, bucket said:

I respect your views as always Griff, but we all have our favourite moorings, for different reasons.

While there is no right or wrong here it does demonstrate the lack of  thought and consideration towards others and the I will do what I want attitude that has become more prevelant in recent years. 

It's often remarked on here about the attitude of a minority of Anglers towards boaters,while it is sometimes justified with unacceptable  behaviour it is not helped when a little bit of thought from boaters could save a lot of the antagonism, there is or should be room for everyone to get along together whatever their preferences.

Fred