Car Talk

[BrundallNavy]

On 27/07/2024 at 12:28, floydraser said:

Ford are now doing a dual clutch auto along with a mild hybrid system, looks like fun in the Puma, just have to watch the wet belt engine.

The ecoboost is now chain driven   

[BrundallNavy]

On 26/07/2024 at 20:58, CambridgeCabby said:

DSG , VW group, gear boxes are excellent provided they have been serviced meticulously and oil changed regularly if there is no service record on a car with a dsg then you would be advised to get it checked or warranted before parting with your hard earned .

As a footnote , I’ve driven in excess of a million miles on DSG gearboxes  and never had a failure 

Started having issues on my golf at 60k it went soon after. It did have a full history as well.  For me it’s hard to beat the BMW 8 speed. 

[floydraser]

1 hour ago, BrundallNavy said:

The ecoboost is now chain driven   

Thank you for that, I had no idea. The wet belt controversey had put me off looking at a Puma but a friend who owns one looked into it and said the latest advice was to have the belts changed at around 40 to 50k. I'll be looking at a Puma later.

[BrundallNavy]

4 hours ago, floydraser said:

Thank you for that, I had no idea. The wet belt controversey had put me off looking at a Puma but a friend who owns one looked into it and said the latest advice was to have the belts changed at around 40 to 50k. I'll be looking at a Puma later.

I was quoted £1400 for a wet belt change. 

[floydraser]

Well I've just been to the local Ford main dealer to look at a Puma and asked about the chain/belt thing. The salesman assured me it was a still a wet belt but said something vague about it just doesn't go over the top pulley. I had a job to understand what he meant but I've just checked and all Pumas since 2009 have been fitted with chain driven cam timing! I hope the guys in the service department are more switched on than the sales team!

[BrundallNavy]

48 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Well I've just been to the local Ford main dealer to look at a Puma and asked about the chain/belt thing. The salesman assured me it was a still a wet belt but said something vague about it just doesn't go over the top pulley. I had a job to understand what he meant but I've just checked and all Pumas since 2009 have been fitted with chain driven cam timing! I hope the guys in the service department are more switched on than the sales team!

They changed the 3 cylinder ecoboost to chain a few years ago but it still does have a wet belt for the oil pump. 

[floydraser]

30 minutes ago, BrundallNavy said:

They changed the 3 cylinder ecoboost to chain a few years ago but it still does have a wet belt for the oil pump. 

Ah, that'll explain it then. In spite of the fact I actually asked him to explain it to me technically, he obviously assumes we mere customers could never understand such things. Anyway, he did say that Ford will sort out any related engine problems foc so long as there is a full service history by Ford dealers. I'm reassured.

We liked the car and will be back for a test drive next week.

[BroadAmbition]

That's us now home.  MrsG's Q5 racked up 1'554 trouble free miles, apart from the odd wrong turn, tailbacks and diversions

Those autobahns, dual carriageways and A roads are glass smooth, can't remember seeing ONE pothole.  The de restricted sections are - f a s t - but seem safe enough.  I did notice on the limited speed sections (Up to 130kph) that the Germans have a habit of taking away your braking space when pulling out.  They also know that indicating gives them the absolute right of way too.

All in all though enjoyed the experience

Griff

[Mouldy]

48 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

. . . . .  They also know that indicating gives them the absolute right of way too.

Eh?  Even in BMWs?  Indicating?  Are you sure?  Really????????

[FairTmiddlin]

On 27/07/2024 at 21:09, Turnoar said:

.

Seems a bit like Wankel engines and the NSU RO80. A great idea perhaps but never caught on, other than the Mazda rx7 & 8 from memory.

 

The Wankel engine lives on. Mazda are fitting a 2 rotor one to the New CX80 Hybrid

[annv]

It looks like a replay of when they first bought out a rubber cam belts with the escort it also had a 50,000 mile replacement they soon reduced this to 36,000 miles. the trouble is all the road testing is done by professional drivers not joe public, the 50,000 mile change was fine for reps and people that did long distance but when you get down to someone that only did town driving the trouble starts,  as 50,000 miles on motorways ect doesn't equate to the same engine revolutions as town driving. oh why dont they measure the number of engine revolutions as do BMW then the belts would be changed before they failed. Some things never seem to change. John 

[oldgregg]

22 hours ago, BrundallNavy said:

They changed the 3 cylinder ecoboost to chain a few years ago but it still does have a wet belt for the oil pump. 

Indeed. And it's the oil pump that's often the first to shed its teeth and block the oil pickup...

Frustrating as on paper it's a great engine. It baffles me why Honda copied the wet belt idea for their own three pot - Though unlike Ford they at least acknowledge the issue and suggest a (discounted) belt replacement every 6 years. 

[floydraser]

Having taken nearly all the cars I've ever owned "around the clock" mostly for reasons of economy, I am now happily at the stage of my life where I no longer need to worry so much about the car's longevity as even the cheapest new car on the market will have more of it than me!

 

[MargeandParge]

15 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Having taken nearly all the cars I've ever owned "around the clock" mostly for reasons of economy, I am now happily at the stage of my life where I no longer need to worry so much about the car's longevity as even the cheapest new car on the market will have more of it than me!

 

Not sure about that as some fail to serve your needs after a while. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[ChrisB]

On 29/07/2024 at 14:59, BrundallNavy said:

They changed the 3 cylinder ecoboost to chain a few years ago but it still does have a wet belt for the oil pump. 

I was told it was part of the ecoboost going mild hybrid in 2019.

[oldgregg]

8 hours ago, ChrisB said:

I was told it was part of the ecoboost going mild hybrid in 2019.

That's correct, yeah. But they've kept quiet about the oil pump being on a wet belt.

I think initially they went belt for timing because when chasing efficiency (and Euro 6, ultimately) every little helps and in theory a wet belt can further improve efficiency - Potentially quite considerably.

Chasing a CO2 figure to avoid the EU fines (and avoid expensive hybrid systems, which no-one other than Toyota and Honda have really mastered) is what it was all about really.

[ChrisB]

Out of interest I checked with a Ford Main Dealer yesterday and they still say for my 6 year old wet belt with 25000 miles 10 years or 150K miles.

But I to have concerns about leaving the car unused as I mostly use the little Fiat hybrid cabriolet in Summer and the Ford in Winter.

For Ford "Buffs" the Ecosport is a Romanian built Mk2 with an Ecoboost through a conventional torque converter automatic box. Not an Indian built. I was at a Ford garage and the Ford UK area Manager said he was not aware of any other Romanian cars, built for the UK with a full size spare as I had specified as it was only offered for a matter of weeks.

[floydraser]

Anyone remember the Ford Pinto engine with it's spray bar lubrication for the overhead cam? Seems like deja vu to me.

Food for thought: I wonder how many ecoboost engines have failed out of the thousands produced? I wonder how many owners skimp on servicing to save money? How many garages skimp on servicing for greater profit? I remember going into a car accessory shop for oil and seeing quite a variety of different grades just for various Ford engines so I would guess it's easy to get the wrong one. I know one back street garage who has a 45 gallon drum of oil and whatever make or model of car you've got, that's the oil you get.

So I reckon Ford's mistake may be that they are guilty of ignoring reality and designed a fantastic engine that requires aircraft style attention to detail for maintenance. I have read that apart from the timing chain they have changed the material of the oil belt and added a decent tensioner. 

So don't miss a service, use a main dealer and keep an eye on any warning lights; gawd knows there's enough of them these days! 

[ChrisB]

I really seem to pick them.

They say the little 1.0ltr 3 pot Firefly in the Fiat should only ever be given Selenia Eco2 0W-20.

[oldgregg]

0W20 isn't that bad once you're used to it.... My Honda used to only drink that (and had quite a taste for it towards the end of my ownership) and you can buy it for sensible money if you shop around.

[BroadAmbition]

Anyone remember the Ford Pinto engine with it's spray bar lubrication for the overhead cam? Seems like deja vu to me.

Yep, still own one the 2:0Ltr version in this:-

Balanced, blueprinted, uprated cam etc, goes like stink too

Griff

 

[Troyboy]

I remember the old Pinto engine in my Cortinas. The camshaft and followers had to be changed at about 40,000 miles if I remember correctly. Mind, using the old 20/50 oil probably didn't help. Oil technology has come a long way since the 1970s.

[annv]

Hi Most off the problems with the cortina engine were down to not changing the oil every 6,000 miles or yearly and keeping the breather pipe clear,  along with using a quality oil. We used Castrol and had known issues with our customer's who followed this advice.The early 1200 three bearing crankshaft engine did however had a camshaft that wasn't hardened correctly and a crankshaft that stretched, certainly had issues and if oil changes' were neglected it was made worse. John

[ChrisB]

1 hour ago, Troyboy said:

I remember the old Pinto engine in my Cortinas. The camshaft and followers had to be changed at about 40,000 miles if I remember correctly. Mind, using the old 20/50 oil probably didn't help. Oil technology has come a long way since the 1970s.

You are right. It seems nowadays every engine has it's own fully synthetic, developed in a manufacturer, oil company partnership.

Back then everything I had got Castrol GTX.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Seem to recall Castrol GTX had Liquid Engineering in the adverts and on the label.