New Hire Boats For 2022

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

I must say though, I don't know what that bathing platform on the back is supposed to be for.  Are they suggesting swimming in the Yare?  Or perhaps in the lilies on Rockland Broad?  Or do they come towing a paddle board, as a tender?

I'm surprised that you of all people would suggest a hire yard was suggesting that! 

For clarification I have copied the relevant section from their Ts&Cs and the capitals are not mine.

"NO PERSONS PERMITTED ON THE FRONT DECK OF THE BOAT. OR ON THE REAR DECK ENGINE HATCH AT ANYTIME, OTHER THAN IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION OR M.O.B.

NO PERSONS ARE TO ENTER THE WATER FROM THE VESSEL UNLESS IN AN EMERGENCY ONLY OR M.O.B.

NO SWIMMING FROM THE VESSEL. LIVE PROPELLER UNDERWATER.

BUOYANCY AIDS ARE TO BE WORN AT ALL TIMES ON CRAFT INCLUDING SMALL INFLATABLE CRAFT.

The stated maximum number of passengers must not be exceeded. No further passengers to be collected or board outside Of Buccaneer Boats, all members of Hirers party must be present on commencement of hire and end of hire at Buccaneer Boats."

I really cannot fault their ethos and I hope they do succeed in their endeavour. With any luck a few other yards take note and maybe think there just might be another way of doing things. One that protects their investment and that of others who also want to enjoy the Broads in peace.

[Meantime]

25 minutes ago, andyg said:

How on earth is running an engine bad behaviour...

Because it's anti social and shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Wussername]

19 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Not at all I am all for maximising the area and for all to enjoy it, just a nice change to see someone in the industry being proactive regarding behaviour especially when it seems from their video that NBD are encouraging the opposite  advising their customers to run engines of an evening.

Fred

 

Maximising the area worries me. Canoes, Paddle Boards, Wild Swimming. It is having an impact on the river, on the broads. Safety issues, conflict on right of mooring, of access. There needs to be more positive direction from The Broads Authority.

I have a real concern that in the process of time there will be an incident. A tragic incident. Which will have  serious consequences throughout Broadland. 

It has already happened. Still on going after several months. 

We cannot afford a repetion, we must demonstrate that we recognise certain issues, and that we care. That we have a responsibility. We just need an authority that understands our concern. I have said it before, you can delegate authority but not responsibility, the latter is elsewhere.

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Wussername said:

but not responsibility, the latter is elsewhere.

Responsibility works both ways. If you wild swim in a navigable waterway make sure you have a bright float and can be seen. If you helm make sure your capable, sober and keep a good eye out. Make sure of your surroundings and above all else SLOW down when you pass canoes, paddle boarders, wild swimmers, oh and also moorings!

[rightsaidfred]

8 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Maximising the area worries me. Canoes, Paddle Boards, Wild Swimming. It is having an impact on the river, on the broads. Safety issues, conflict on right of mooring, of access. There needs to be more positive direction from The Broads Authority.

I have a real concern that in the process of time there will be an incident. A tragic incident. Which will have  serious consequences throughout Broadland. 

It has already happened. Still on going after several months. 

We cannot afford a repetion, we must demonstrate that we recognise certain issues, and that we care. That we have a responsibility. We just need an authority that understands our concern. I have said it before, you can delegate authority but not responsibility, the latter is elsewhere.

All rivers not just the broads belong to everyone and are there for the enjoyment of all, it is not for anyone to decide who can or can not use them as they see fit, just like the roads it is the responsibilty of all to act with due care for others.

Fred  

[FlyingFortress]

Wise words as always Mr W 

Unfortunately I think the responsibility for safety goes beyond the remit of The Broads Authority.

I will stop now before I get into more trouble on here.

 

 

[Wussername]

8 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Responsibility works both ways. If you wild swim in a navigable waterway make sure you have a bright float and can be seen. If you helm make sure your capable, sober and keep a good eye out. Make sure of your surroundings and above all else SLOW down when you pass canoes, paddle boarders, wild swimmers, oh and also moorings!

I do understand your concern.

Last year at Ranworth there were children on rubber rings, lilo's, swimming, paddle boards. A lido. In an area of 3 ton boats helmed by complete novices. Trying to secure a mooring. 

Would you please explain to me a child's perception of responsibility.  

Sooner rather than later there will be an incident. I hope that I am wrong.

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Wussername said:

I do understand your concern.

Last year at Ranworth there were children on rubber rings, lilo's, swimming, paddle boards. A lido. In an area of 3 ton boats helmed by complete novices. Trying to secure a mooring. 

Would you please explain to me a child's perception of responsibility.  

Sooner rather than later there will be an incident. I hope that I am wrong.

So it is up to the responsible parent to look after their children especially if in the water and unknowingly you have probably hit the other nail on the head. 

Quote "A lido. In an area of 3 ton boats helmed by complete novices."

I also hope your wrong, but if things don't change, they stay the same unfortunately!

[andyg]

27 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Because it's anti social and shouldn't be necessary.

 

Absolute nonsense, anti social...

[Wussername]

9 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

All rivers not just the broads belong to everyone and are there for the enjoyment of all, it is not for anyone to decide who can or can not use them as they see fit, just like the roads it is the responsibilty of all to act with due care for others.

Fred  

Fred. It is not just the Norfolk Broads. Look at the stastics concerning Mountain rescue. Every day, 24/7, 365 days a year. 

I used to be a boatman, and every thing that entails, nothing more, nothing less. How do you delegate responsibility to a person of tender years, a person who has by default, limited understanding of the river, of tides, wind, rain, cold.

The impact of these variables.

[Wussername]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

So it is up to the responsible parent to look after their children especially if in the water and unknowingly you have probably hit the other nail on the head. 

Quote "A lido. In an area of 3 ton boats helmed by complete novices."

I also hope your wrong, but if things don't change, they stay the same unfortunately!

You cannot delegate responsibility. Ultimately it rests with those in authority.

[rightsaidfred]

2 hours ago, Wussername said:

Maximising the area worries me. Canoes, Paddle Boards, Wild Swimming. It is having an impact on the river, on the broads. Safety issues, conflict on right of mooring, of access. There needs to be more positive direction from The Broads Authority.

I have a real concern that in the process of time there will be an incident. A tragic incident. Which will have  serious consequences throughout Broadland. 

It has already happened. Still on going after several months. 

We cannot afford a repetion, we must demonstrate that we recognise certain issues, and that we care. That we have a responsibility. We just need an authority that understands our concern. I have said it before, you can delegate authority but not responsibility, the latter is elsewhere.

While I share your concern and nobody wants to see any tragedy especially with a child life isn't and never will be risk free, you cannot sanatise life to that extent that nobody does anything, as for responsibilty people need to step up and accept responsibility for themselves,  keeping on delegating responsibility to authority has increasingly turned us into a nanny state which most of us dislike.

Fred

[Meantime]

14 minutes ago, Wussername said:

You cannot delegate responsibility. Ultimately it rests with those in authority.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. As an example last week I was on the Yare approaching Thorpe when coming towards me was about 12 children all in canoes with a couple of adults. Some kind of organised outing. They were three or so abreast and covering more than half of the rivers width. The adult at the back was shouting instructions to them all and as I got close to them he shouted for them all to start paddling backwards! The lead canoe didn't hear and carried on straight forwards and the rest which up to that point had been heading in reasonably straight lines were now paddling backwards and heading all over the place, towards each other and in one case straight across the river into my path. 

I judge that the two adults present were responsible for the safety of the children in their group and I judge it was irresponsible of the adult in charge at the back to shout for them all to start paddling backwards when there was a large river cruiser closing in and they presumably had far better control paddling forwards as they had been up to that point. The children were relying on the adults present for tuition and ultimately their safety. In turn I'm guessing the responsible parents had entrusted "delegated" their children's safety to the responsible adults providing the tuition.

On the other hand I am responsible for my boat and my safety, the safety of those on board and trying my best to look out for the safety of those around me. I had already upon seeing such a large group adjusted my speed accordingly as I always do when passing more vulnerable river users and with the command to paddle backwards with the ensuing chaos I throttled astern to halt my progress completely and let them sort themselves out and the adult at the back then issued the command to paddle forwards again and once they were all past me I carried on ahead again.

I know that part of the river well, you get rowing club boats moving very fast with the accompanying safety boats, canoes from the pub and paddle company, stand up paddle boards, day boats from Thorpe Green,  the occasional wild swimmer and sail boats from the Norwich frost bite sailing club. It is my responsibility to be aware of those around me and helm my boat accordingly.

However to quote you from earlier again, " In an area of 3 ton boats helmed by complete novices." had such a boat been in the same location it might have been a different matter. Ensuring that complete novices are not in charge of a 3 ton boat without full and proper tuition is the responsibility of the hire yard and ultimately the navigation authority. 

[Andrewcook]

Hi over the years the Broad's activities have changed quite a lot such as Canoes / Paddle Boarding. & More Day Boats. The Broads Authorities ought to look at the Riles On Boats either. Hiring & Private including Sailing. There is one Rule No Engines after 8 pm that must be put on signed Boards as this is very annoying for other Boaters. 

[FlyingFortress]

Mrs FF goes a bit mad when she sees dogs walking unsupervised around a boat.

My answer is that kids do it all the time.

I also comment that some parents would not even discover a child missing until they tuck them into bed.

And IMHO not even that can be guaranteed.

So who is responsible for those children's safety?

Someone, somebody in fact anybody except the parents. Must be BA ,or the Hire Company, or Environment Agency, Natural England,The Government or even The National Parks.

One major Shipping Company have a notice on every mirror on the ship , saying " You are now looking at the person responsible for your safety".

Wise words 

[rightsaidfred]

3 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

Hi over the years the Broad's activities have changed quite a lot such as Canoes / Paddle Boarding. & More Day Boats. The Broads Authorities ought to look at the Riles On Boats either. Hiring & Private including Sailing. There is one Rule No Engines after 8 pm that must be put on signed Boards as this is very annoying for other Boaters. 

Andrew, that is a request not a rule and should be removed as it gives totally the wrong impression, bye law 84 is the definitive 24 hours a day and it is that which needs publicising.

Fred

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, rightsaidfred said:

Andrew, that is a request not a rule and should be removed as it gives totally the wrong impression, bye law 84 is the definitive 24 hours a day and it is that which needs publicising.

Fred

Bit of a dodgy subject imho.  Whilst you may think it needs to be removed, I don’t.  The problem nowadays is that some people don’t respect others, all too evident with anti-social behaviour that can be witnessed in towns and cities everyday, as well as on the rivers, where craft (both private and hire) are frequently seen speeding passed moored craft, causing them to be thrown around in their wake.

Whilst out for a break on our boat last autumn, I broke one of my own rules and stayed overnight at Ranworth.  The people who were moored next to us went to the pub and returned to their boat at 22:00, just as we were going to bed.  They immediately started their engine and we spent about twenty five minutes listening to a noisy old diesel thrumming away before I had to pull some clothes on and tap on their window.

Had their intention been to start the engine to fire up their heating for five minutes, no problem, but it was evident that they were happy pumping toxic fumes into the atmosphere for a lot longer.

The problem for me is that far too many hire yards tell their customers to run the engine when starting their heaters to cover for the fact that the batteries are shot and require replacement.

 

 

[rightsaidfred]

2 hours ago, Mouldy said:

Bit of a dodgy subject imho.  Whilst you may think it needs to be removed, I don’t.  The problem nowadays is that some people don’t respect others, all too evident with anti-social behaviour that can be witnessed in towns and cities everyday, as well as on the rivers, where craft (both private and hire) are frequently seen speeding passed moored craft, causing them to be thrown around in their wake.

Whilst out for a break on our boat last autumn, I broke one of my own rules and stayed overnight at Ranworth.  The people who were moored next to us went to the pub and returned to their boat at 22:00, just as we were going to bed.  They immediately started their engine and we spent about twenty five minutes listening to a noisy old diesel thrumming away before I had to pull some clothes on and tap on their window.

Had their intention been to start the engine to fire up their heating for five minutes, no problem, but it was evident that they were happy pumping toxic fumes into the atmosphere for a lot longer.

The problem for me is that far too many hire yards tell their customers to run the engine when starting their heaters to cover for the fact that the batteries are shot and require replacement.

 

 

It needs to be removed because to many regard it as permission to run engines during the day when fumes are just as big a problem as I have experienced a couple of times recently not helped by conditions this year, yards are not just telling them regards heating but as standard practise.

Fred

 

[rightsaidfred]

9 hours ago, Wussername said:

Fred. It is not just the Norfolk Broads. Look at the stastics concerning Mountain rescue. Every day, 24/7, 365 days a year. 

I used to be a boatman, and every thing that entails, nothing more, nothing less. How do you delegate responsibility to a person of tender years, a person who has by default, limited understanding of the river, of tides, wind, rain, cold.

The impact of these variables.

I don't disagree situations happen in life because that is life, an employer is responsible for the safety measures in place in the workplace it is the individuals responsibility for his own actions, the BA state no swimming from their moorings, they don't own the broads or most moorings on them or the boats, they can't stop people entering the  water, it is a parents duty to supervise their children nobody else's.

Fred

[Meantime]

4 hours ago, Mouldy said:

Bit of a dodgy subject imho.  Whilst you may think it needs to be removed, I don’t.

How would you feel about a sign that said "No loud music to be played at the mooring between 8pm to 8am"

On the surface a very sensible suggestion, but it also suggests it is acceptable therefore to play loud music at the mooring during the day.

As RSF has already said, Byelaw 84 is enforceable and states:

"The master of a vessel shall not permit the vessel to emit smoke or fumes or make any noise or nuisance which gives reasonable grounds for annoyance to any other person."

So rather than adding a sign which has no backing in the BA's own byelaw's and suggests it is ok to run your engine at moorings during the daytime, in contravention of their own byelaw, why not publish Byelaw 84 on the mooring signs?

[Vaughan]

8 minutes ago, Meantime said:

So rather than adding a sign which has no backing in the BA's own byelaw's and suggests it is ok to run your engine at moorings during the daytime, in contravention of their own byelaw, why not publish Byelaw 84 on the mooring signs?

Personally I have always found this everlasting dispute about charging batteries on moorings to be rather tedious.

All the same I think your suggestion here is a very good one.  Only problem then is - what are reasonable grounds for annoyance?

For me, the sound of an engine running at a constant slow speed is all part of being on the water on a boat.  We can hardly call the Maltsters' quay a wild mooring, can we?

[rightsaidfred]

13 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Personally I have always found this everlasting dispute about charging batteries on moorings to be rather tedious.

All the same I think your suggestion here is a very good one.  Only problem then is - what are reasonable grounds for annoyance?

For me, the sound of an engine running at a constant slow speed is all part of being on the water on a boat.  We can hardly call the Maltsters' quay a wild mooring, can we?

The noise level depends on boat type, the bigger problem is fumes which have become a bigger problem this year possibly down to weather conditions, also it's not a Ranworth problem I have had it when moored stern to stern on side on moorings, what really jumps out is the larger yards promoting Electric and hybrid boats as being ecologicaly friendly and then telling people to run engines.

Fred

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

For me, the sound of an engine running at a constant slow speed is all part of being on the water on a boat.  We can hardly call the Maltsters' quay a wild mooring, can we?

I have to say I've gone to some lengths to provide sound deadening in my engine bay and actually find the noise of my own engine a little tedious after a long cruise and am glad when it's turned off. Having strayed over to the dark side on a few occasions (a Hunters boat) I do really appreciate the peace and tranquility that being under sail can provide. I can imagine how galling it is to get to a mooring under sail and moor up, only for the peace to be shattered by the constant throb of engines.

I never understand why engines need to be run at moorings. To illustrate this, last week I was on the Yare for a few days break. About 2hrs after leaving the marina the 12V gauge started flicking between 12.6V and 14V and the rev counter started to flicker in unison. I pulled over at the nearest mooring which happened to be Cantley and investigated. All wiring checked and no loose wires found and I decided it was probably the regulator breaking down. What to do? Head back to the marina and cancel my trip? No I disconnected the charge lamp wire going to the alternator, which also acts as the alternator startup and restarted the engine. All good the gauge is sitting steady ay 12.6V. The alternator is spinning, but providing no charge. The important bit, the fan belt is still driving the water pump so there should be no issues with continuing my trip other than not recharging the 12V batteries.

However due to design and engineering and more than a little planning, the boat also has a 24V alternator. It also has a small invertor connected to 12V to provide power for a TV and recharging laptop and phone etc. It also has a much larger invertor connected to the 24V batteries for running the microwave and the immersion element in the calorifier should I want hot water on a mooring without running the engine. I also have 4 stage battery chargers for both 12V and 24V for when I'm connected to shore power.

So I was able to turn on the 24V invertor and the 12V battery charger and recharge my 12V batteries as needed. I didn't need to plug into shore power at any mooring. I didn't need to run my engine at any mooring. My batteries are in a good enough condition that they could handle the extra load of having to charge the 12V batteries and more importantly I didn't have to cut short my trip.

The very scenario that happened was planned for when I enhanced the fit out of my boat. I even have a temporary fan belt on board in the event that the 12V alternator was to have a bearing break down or seize then I could use the temporary fan belt to just go straight between the crank and the water pump and remove the 12V alternator altogether. Should the 24V alternator ever fail then I can again recharge those batteries off the 12V invertor and 24V charger, although the 24V tends to be less important to me than the 12V systems.

I continued with my trip and upon the return to the marina removed the 12V alternator and took it home for further inspection. Having stripped it down and cleaned it, I'm reasonable confident I have found the culprit, a loose crimp on one of the connections on the regulator. This weekend I shall be returning to the boat for another trip out for the bank holiday weekend. The alternator will be refitted and hopefully the problem is cured, but if not I shall simply disconnect the charge light wire again and continue with my trip and worry about further fault finding upon my return.

[andyg]

Simple answer to engines being run at night !!! Improve the infrastructure and yards need to improve battery maintenance. We were one of four boats at Ranworth last October having there batteries swapped out. We live in a technology driven world, teenagers want access to WiFi and electricity etc it's as simple as that. I can remember back to my early childhood holidaying on the broads engines running after dark wasa common practice. Engine's back then were far more polluting. I'm with Vaughan on this engines running on a mooring rarely bother me. 

[CeePee1952]

I'll throw this one into the current topic! 

"Noise is sound which is unwelcome and can cause distress, annoyance or disturbance to unwilling listeners."

That is the current definition, how it can be regulated in the general public area is another matter! Not to be confused with controlling noise pollution in the workplace!

Chris