Sutton Staithe Moorings.

[Vaughan]

Alpha Craft.

Blue Cruisers.

Bounty Boats.

Brundall Gardens Yacht Station.

Charter Craft.

Coral Craft.

County Craft.

Fisher Marine.

Fletcher.

Harvey Eastwood.

Peterkin Craft.

Robin G. Smith.

Springcraft.

Wing Line.

Bell Boats.

C.J.Broom & Sons.

Swancraft.

Tidecraft.

Anyone get the common denominator in this list?

They were all Blakes and Hoseasons yards operating out of Brundall in 1971.  There may have been others, who were with Bradbeers agency.  As well as Blakes long dyke, there was also a dyke of public moorings leading up to the Yare hotel.  Why so many?  Right beside a mainline railway station.

Notable for me, there are only 4 Blakes yards, of which 3 were on the river front. This would be because one of the conditions of membership of Blakes was that the yard must offer decent made up moorings, with toilet and shower facilities and a bit of garden, ideally in a popular cruising location, so as to offer a welcome to other Blakes boats on holiday.  Hoseasons ones were not turned away, since if you made them welcome and "chatted them up" they would probably come back and book with you next year!  So you didn't tend to get many Blakes yards stuffed away down long dykes.

So what is Brundall like now, as a visiting "destination" for cruising on holiday?

[RS2021]

Interesting reading about how Blakes did so much for the infrastructure on the Broads to make their customer's holidays great. At this time how did you get on with moorings if you were a private boat? I know there weren't as many about, but were there free 24 hour moorings? Could you moor at a Blakes (or Hoseasons) yard? Did you have to pay for moorings?

[Vaughan]

16 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

Interesting reading about how Blakes did so much for the infrastructure on the Broads to make their customer's holidays great. At this time how did you get on with moorings if you were a private boat? I know there weren't as many about, but were there free 24 hour moorings? Could you moor at a Blakes (or Hoseasons) yard? Did you have to pay for moorings?

I haven't really touched on private boats in those days but there weren't very many and a great deal were sailing yachts.  They tended to disappear into boatyards or private wet-sheds for the winter and spend the summer on sailing club moorings, such as Wroxham Broad or Oulton.  They sometimes ventured out for a barbecue on Salhouse Broad for the day but otherwise, they might be seen out on the main river on their way to and from a regatta, where they would spend a week moored on a mud weight.  That is a huge generalisation of course    but there really weren't all that many and they were often sea boats, so that they could "pop across" to Holland now and again.

Some might tell you different but in my experience, private boats were not turned away from boatyard moorings for the night.  There were so few that they were not in the way and very often, they knew all the boatyard owners personally! Also, the only turn-round day was Saturday, so yards were empty all week in the season.

I think it's fair to say that the business was a lot more of a "league of gentlemen" in those days.  Perhaps that is why they never made a lot of money??

Edited to add : Did you have to pay for moorings - NO!

The concept of being fleeced by anyone who has a bit of riverfront to spare (including pubs) only started to creep in (like a bad cold) in the 70s.  Before then, if there was no sign saying private, then you moored anywhere.

[BroadAmbition]

Why do so many private private properties have signs stating they are just that and no mooring - isn’t kinda obvious?

If I owned a riverside property my sign would state:-

‘This Sign is Out of Order’

Griff

[Meantime]

22 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I have been trying to make the point that, in my opinion, cruising the Broads is in danger of losing its appeal (private and hire) because of the lack of facilities and service, compared to what used to be offered in the "heyday" of the hire boat business.

Is that not true of many different businesses? that adapt and find economies of scale and push the smaller businesses to the brink? but we as customers complain and carry on using the bigger ones that are left, even if the choice of quality and varied produce is much reduced in favour of the corporate brands.

A classic example is with Richardsons who could have retained their yard at Acle and carried on operating out of two centres, or three if you include Horning Pleasurecraft. That alone would have created two extra places for their hire boats and others to use for mooring and facilities. You say that yard owners are not greedy, but they are businessmen. They closed those two yards to make the business more streamlined and profitable overall.

Coming out of the second world war every town, village or district had its own corner shop grocers, bakers, greengrocers and butchers. Mainly independents and now pretty much all closed. Now we have the big four supermarkets. Tescos, Sainsburys, Morrisons and Asda. But look at the list below that have either been put out of business by them or bought by them.

Alldays

Bejam

BP Safeway

Carrefour

Circle K

Fairway

Fine Fare

Gateway Supermarkets

Grandways

Hintons

Irwins

International

Key Markets

Kwik Save

Liptons

Mace

Netto

Presto

Pricerite

Quality Fare

Richway Supermarkets

Safeway

Savacentre

7 - Eleven

Somerfield

Victor Value

Running your own small business should leave you better off than working 40 hrs a week 9 to 5 for some large company. The sad fact is that for many they end up doing 70 or 80 hours and realise they are earning less than if they worked 40 hrs a week for someone else. So they sell up to one of the big boys and retire or diversify. Take Silverline as an example of diversifying for a better lifestyle and probably as much money as before.

Hire yards are no different to supermarkets or package holiday companies. Standing still as a small family business no longer pays.

 

[DAVIDH]

Vaughan's focus on the provision of better facilities for the holidaymaker is the right one. Holiday abroad tour operators are the main competitors to the Broads businesses, not each other. Funnily enough, these tour operators see their main competition as the electronics and white goods industries, so all businesses are fearful of losing trade to other sectors. It seems in years gone by, the yards realised that facilities had to improve to compete, and came together under the Blakes organisation to make that happen. Today, the yards are once again competing against themselves and it seems are blind to the lack of available visitor moorings, as nobody wants to invest in something that would benefit all visiting craft, not just their own.

That's what's missing today, an outward looking industry. Yet it's this lack of desire to improve the infrastructure that may sound the death knell of the Broads as a holiday destination. I've read on social media many times, compaints of returning holidaymakers of not being able to find a pub mooring after 4pm in the summer school holiday months... you know, like they see on the advertising images. The more experienced crews will know how to get around this, but for the first time visitor it's not a good look and they simply won't return. Bang.... a new visitor stream has gone. Perhaps it's time for the remaining boatyards to get together to prevent their business relocating elsewhere, whether that be overseas or elsewhere in the UK. It will cost money, but sustaining your business model always does. 

[Vaughan]

37 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

Vaughan's focus on the provision of better facilities for the holidaymaker is the right one. Holiday abroad tour operators are the main competitors to the Broads businesses, not each other. Funnily enough, these tour operators see their main competition as the electronics and white goods industries, so all businesses are fearful of losing trade to other sectors. It seems in years gone by, the yards realised that facilities had to improve to compete, and came together under the Blakes organisation to make that happen. Today, the yards are once again competing against themselves and it seems are blind to the lack of available visitor moorings, as nobody wants to invest in something that would benefit all visiting craft, not just their own.

That's what's missing today, an outward looking industry. Yet it's this lack of desire to improve the infrastructure that may sound the death knell of the Broads as a holiday destination. I've read on social media many times, compaints of returning holidaymakers of not being able to find a pub mooring after 4pm in the summer school holiday months... you know, like they see on the advertising images. The more experienced crews will know how to get around this, but for the first time visitor it's not a good look and they simply won't return. Bang.... a new visitor stream has gone. Perhaps it's time for the remaining boatyards to get together to prevent their business relocating elsewhere, whether that be overseas or elsewhere in the UK. It will cost money, but sustaining your business model always does. 

Very wise words, from someone who knows, how this industry is marketed.     

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

The sad fact is that for many they end up doing 70 or 80 hours and realise they are earning less than if they worked 40 hrs a week for someone else.

Tell me about it !

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

A classic example is with Richardsons who could have retained their yard at Acle and carried on operating out of two centres, or three if you include Horning Pleasurecraft. That alone would have created two extra places for their hire boats and others to use for mooring and facilities. You say that yard owners are not greedy, but they are businessmen. They closed those two yards to make the business more streamlined and profitable overall.

There is no logistical or practical sense in having 3 bases within an hour and a half's cruising of each other.  Now if they had decided to have a base in Brundall as well as Stalham, offering a week's one way cruise between the two, whilst less than an hour away by road, that would make business sense!  That is what the big Jenners development in Thorpe was all about in 1966 and if it were not for cash flow and start-up finance problems, it might be still successful today.

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

Is that not true of many different businesses? that adapt and find economies of scale and push the smaller businesses to the brink?

I think you miss the point that Blakes was a non-profit co-operative of its member boatyards, some with 180 boats (Woods) and some with only 10 (like me) but in the 70s it was a multi-million pound business in its own right.  So all the little private members had a lot of marketing "clout".

What went wrong? We could write a book on that but we must look ahead to the future of the Broads.  The BA's 4th responsibility (as member of the NP family) to maintain the interests of navigation, doesn't just mean dredging!

[Meantime]

56 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

Perhaps it's time for the remaining boatyards to get together to prevent their business relocating elsewhere, whether that be overseas or elsewhere in the UK. It will cost money, but sustaining your business model always does. 

The toll multiplier for hire boats used to be 3x what a privateer pays. Sometime back the BA reduced it, and now I believe it is down to 2.25 times. It ultimately left less money in the BA's coffers for improving the infrastructure. I wonder where that saving went? It could have been used by the yards in the same way as Blakes used to provide facilities for hirers. Was it used to reduce the price of boating holidays? Or was it used to produce more profit for the yards at the expense of investment in the infrastructure?

[Vaughan]

3 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Or was it used to produce more profit for the yards at the expense of investment in the infrastructure?

Probably used to try and cover for the fact that in the recession of the 80s, an average season went down from 28 weeks to 16.

You have also not factored in that the existence of 3000 private boats now, redresses the balance.

[floydraser]

Another factor maybe modern standards of education and expectation. Kids study business at school and can then go on to study it further, as compared to the seat of the pants businessmen of years ago.

Away from the Broads over here: Years ago a chap buys a lorry and starts his own business. He expands and buys more lorries and a big yard. People work for him for years and speak about him with affection. He contributes a lot to the local community. His son takes over and restructures the business. Merges with another company, expands into warehousing. The son moves away to a more affluent village. The third generation takes over - warehouses sold off, family name gone from the lorries, yard sold off for housing estate. No trace of the family round here anymore.

[marshman]

No - it was not Bells dyke. They were adjacent to the yard and the "Blakes" dyke was further upstream and around the bend, almost bang opposite the western entrance to Surlingham - it was never Bargate in those days!!!!!

Bells did try and dig a dyke out just upstream of the yard but whilst doing it they nearly lost a Ruston dragline which fell off its "mat" - now they didn't half struggle to rescue that and lost their enthusiasm methinks!!!!

The Blakes dyke was an entirely different issue and access to it was down Church Loke and over the line there, nowhere near Bells. To the best of my knowledge there was never a yard there - come on Vaughan you can do better than this, dredge back a bit further into your mind! It may have had something to do with the Brundall Gardens Estate - certainly it is they who own that land immediately adjacent to it now.

A quick look at any map will show its a long way from Bells and I can almost certainly confirm it had nothing to do with them - at that time we had moorings in Bells yard and it was certainly never mentioned to my knowledge by Vic Bell as them owning it. I assumed then Blakes owned it but looking back it was probably on land leased  by Blakes and perhaps leased from Brundall Gardens - look on Google Maps (there are others!!) and its quite obvious how far away it was from Bells!

[Cheesey69]

also don't forget aspiration. (if that's the right word)

As a kid, I can remember the boat shows were massive, many people really wanted a boat or its lifestyle. Many 70's and early 80's TV shows or films included the rich lounging around on a boat.

And I think the Broads gave us a slice of that life. Just look at early cine films of The Broads with the crews with their boatyard colours on a bobble hat.

Now not so much. A better house,car or holiday abroad. The Broads are in competition with the rest of the world. 

BA have to get to grips with the mooring situation or come up with novel ideas. Last october we met a couple who loved the holiday but hated that they just could not moor up where they wanted and because they believed the advertising, they never had enough food on board because they thought they could moor up outside pubs and eat. 

And my last point is, have a look at the average age of hirers, younger or older?

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

come on Vaughan you can do better than this, dredge back a bit further into your mind! It may have had something to do with the Brundall Gardens Estate - certainly it is they who own that land immediately adjacent to it now.

So we must be talking about Mike Garrett, who renovated the pavilion at Brundall gardens, dug out the present-day mooring basin and ran hire boats under the name Brundall Gardens Yacht Station.  He did all that with his own Ruston drag-line, which he was proud to demonstrate to my parents, whenever we stopped on our way down river to call in on him.  I was given a go on it myself, but I wasn't big enough to operate the "spragging handles". *

All the same I have a feeling that Blakes would have had their work done by Ho' bro's, at Griffin Lane (later May Gurneys).

 

* I am sure that is a term which can be "googled".

[Smoggy]

Close looking on OS maps I guess the red arrowed one is Bells and the purple arrowed one is the one I always think of wrongly as Bells, I don't think I have ever noticed entrance to the real Bells dyke then.

[marshman]

Correct!!

To be honest I am not sure the red one was ever really anything - I seem to remember there was a big old boat moored in the mouth there and someone lived there, but I think access was only by boat.  All behind was pretty wet as the digger driver found out - my recollection is that they had to get another one in to get the stuck one out, but with bigger mats!!! Undoubtedly Hobrough was indeed involved but I cannot remember sometimes what day of the week, it is let alone what happened 60 years ago!!!!

I do remember, a bit earlier though ,when there was still a foot ferry at Coldham Hall. We used to ring the ol' bell to get him to row across, then run like hell!!!

[Vaughan]

37 minutes ago, marshman said:

I seem to remember there was a big old boat moored in the mouth there and someone lived there,

It was a Fairmile "D" motor torpedo boat, called Longmynd.

[marshman]

I just knew you would know that Vaughan!!!!!!!!! 

[rightsaidfred]

3 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

also don't forget aspiration. (if that's the right word)

As a kid, I can remember the boat shows were massive, many people really wanted a boat or its lifestyle. Many 70's and early 80's TV shows or films included the rich lounging around on a boat.

And I think the Broads gave us a slice of that life. Just look at early cine films of The Broads with the crews with their boatyard colours on a bobble hat.

Now not so much. A better house,car or holiday abroad. The Broads are in competition with the rest of the world. 

BA have to get to grips with the mooring situation or come up with novel ideas. Last october we met a couple who loved the holiday but hated that they just could not moor up where they wanted and because they believed the advertising, they never had enough food on board because they thought they could moor up outside pubs and eat. 

And my last point is, have a look at the average age of hirers, younger or older?

This will probably be contraversial but having been afloat for most of the year with the obvious exceptions and not using pub moorkngs I havnt witnessed a problem with moorings, there have even been spaces at PH and Ranworth at times, although I have seen HW turn boats away for lack of space, for me given the current and foreseeable future the biggest problem will be a reversal of the current trend for short breaks.

Fred

[LizG]

We used to love mooring at Brundall Dyke in the 1960s. Full of marsh gas and by the railway line Giant Hogweed! Great for train spotting plus hearing a coaster coming along and running down to end of the dyke to see it go past. The footpath over the railway went past the small church. It was just called Brundall Dyke then.

[LizG]

It was the one with the purple arrow!

[LizG]

Two of Brundall Dyke in the 60s

[Smoggy]

Could you get into brudall from there or was it just surrounded by swamp?

[marshman]

Easily - walk up the track, over the railway line and Church Loke and it came out by the church and the Ram.

Very central, not like the other end!

[Smoggy]

As good as church fen moorings then, nice!