MauriceMynah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Sorry Robin, I can't agree. There is ample scope for sufficient profit to make that pub a going concern. It's current issue is that there are two groups trying to get their hands on that profit, the landlords (Pubco or whoever) and the tennents. If the tennents owned the place, they wouldn't get rich but they would make a comfortable living.Your say people will go past and just go to where they were going, I think they will stop (and in significant numbers) because that's where they were going! Generally speaking the broads holiday is still a water-born pub crawl just as it ever was.If not too many people have their hands in the till, the pub can and will work. It is that which needs to be proved. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 MM and Keith have summed this up very succinctly especially the last sentence in Keith's post. If the Berney was allowed to compete on a level playing field I'm sure that it would be viable. Pubco's are very good at blandly claiming pubs are not viable, there are numerous examples of pubs thriving when freed from the shackles of rapacious owners. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockham Admiral Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I do like that, Howard. "Freed from the shsckles of rapacious owners" I'll put that in my memory banks! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadScot Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I do like that, Howard. "Freed from the shsckles of rapacious owners" I'll put that in my memory banks!I do believe its part of Yorkshire school phraseology John....init Howard?Sorry, couldn't resist! Iain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I was told they don't pay rent but a % of takings. So unless the % is to much it will depend how much trade they do. I was in there 3/4 weeks ago on a Saturday night and was the only boat there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea14Ian Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Sorry to go over old ground,but if our last visit is anything to .go by,they need to up there game.I have been a Chef for most of my life(Sixty years) now working in the trade for over forty years.They were more interested in taking/looking at there phones,then taking to us.There are problems running a pub at Berney,but engage with customers,offer a service,Good food so on.It can be done,but these people are not helping.For me the pub was always the start to the hols.I won't return unless they improve the pub.Perhaps they need to visit others well ran pubs on the broads,i.e. the New Inn Horning ,White Horse Chedgrave,white horse neatishead.These pubs are well run,offering a good service,food and beer.Most of all you feel welcome.I will and have many many times spent large sums of money if sevice,food and drink is good.Berne can again be a good pub,if they take the bull by the horns. Ian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quo vadis Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Or re-name it the White Horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've not been in the Berney for a while so can't comment re the service. It was closed the last time I visited. However I take on board Ian's comments, I believe that the pub is viable in the right hands but of course regardless of who is there it must be run with professionalism and dedication if it is to succeed (as with any pub). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Bit more about this in the EDP. It appears Mr Hollocks will appeal against the ACV listing which is no great surprise. But I would think unless the Broadland Council didn't follow the correct procedure and given the weight of opposition to the planning application I can't see it succeeding. But you never know, fingers crossed. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/new_hope_for_isolated_broads_pub_berney_arms_1_4280397 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So providing someone is happy to buy it and carry it purely as an appreciating asset, (which it may not be), with little or no return and in the mean time and lease it out, or if someone is prepared to buy it and use it as a lifestyle business choice it has a chance. Unfortunately someone is going to have to buy the property from Pubco in the first place and that cost is going to have to be recovered somewhere in any business plan. if it is a pub chain then they are going to want a return on capital and the Berney, at least by recent history, is not capable of producing one with a few quid left over for the Landlord. The lifestyle choice I fear would purely extend the current run by as much money as the new owner had to burn. If it is going to succeed it will need a professional management that are able to find something that recent operators have not. The locks has land access and much of its resurgence has come from people attending from the road rather than the river. OK the Berney has more passing river trade but I doubt it is enough to warrant any major investment, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Berney has train access, is on a walking route, is next to a nature reserve and is well placed to catch the super rich gin palace trade so perhaps all is not lost. I think that if the planners have an open mind then perhaps there is hope. Just as a pub I don't see a healthy future but both The Locks and the Waveney River Centre have shown that being miles from anywhere can be a recipe for success. Perhaps Berney needs additional attractions, glamping maybe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I would point out that the Berney is not a Pubco it's owned by a Mr Hollocks who is well known in the Yare Valley. The reason it's struggled is that the freeholder expectations are over and beyond what could be construed as reasonable return on capital (sounds familiar, Pubco style). IMHO the pub would be viable if whoever owned would charge an workable rent. Rapacious developers are closing pubs up and down the country claiming they are not viable. That's suits them because they can make a fortune turning them into flats or flogging them to McTesco or the Co op. Sounds familiar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 At one point the rent on the Berney was twice that of the Locks. No wonder the Locks is thriving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Senator, Whilst I can see your argument I can't help but feel you have made one or two assumptions that may not be correct. Take two identical properties. One is a private dwelling, the other is a pub and there is a reasonable amount of land (and by that I mean carpark, beer garden etc.) The dwelling would have a higher market value than the pub. This is why so many pubs are being bought by speculators, getting de-licensed and being turned into dwellings. If the Bereney Arms was purchased by its current owners at 'dwelling value' then they were short sighted, got it wrong and are trying to recover their losses by either rent or selling on. Or... If the Berney arms was purchased at 'pub value' then they are trying to make a killing on the deal by 'proving non viability' de-licensing and selling on at dwelling value. If the pub is valued and sold at 'pub value' then it is a viable business for an owner/publican. It might still be tricky if it were still trying to suceed as having an owner letting it to a tennent. I say tricky, as possibly still not impossible if nobody asks too much of the business. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 10 hours ago, senator said: ......The locks has land access and much of its resurgence has come from people attending from the road rather than the river....... That is indeed a really crucial point when comparing almost any Broads Pub with the Berney Arms. Virtually every riverside Pub has much more "mooring" capacity for cars than boats. The waterside location and the moored boats provide really attractive surroundings for drinking and eating, so they're a big draw for land based customers and locals. If you count the number of cars parked compared to the number of boats moored, (plus the unknown number of punters in villages arriving on foot), it is very clear how the bulk of the customers arrive. In the Winter, it is even more pronounced, with the moorings often empty, but the car park still showing a steady throughput. The tourism industry for the Broads that travels around by car is often overlooked on forums, but the number of guest houses and self catering accommodation dramatically exceeds the 1000 or so hire boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 On 11/20/2015, 12:48:15, JennyMorgan said: Berney has train access, is on a walking route, is next to a nature reserve and is well placed to catch the super rich gin palace trade so perhaps all is not lost. I think that if the planners have an open mind then perhaps there is hope. Just as a pub I don't see a healthy future but both The Locks and the Waveney River Centre have shown that being miles from anywhere can be a recipe for success. Perhaps Berney needs additional attractions, glamping maybe. If you could come to some agreement with the adjoining land owner for access on Saturdays and get some form of made road through so that normal cars can get across even if it rains then I think you are pretty much there Peter. I guess you could even run a ferry service out from somewhere like Burgh Castle to offer the ultimate away from it all type break. Now where did I put those plans for my entertainment centre, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTRIPLE Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 On 20/11/2015, 00:48:15, JennyMorgan said: Berney has train access, is on a walking route, is next to a nature reserve and is well placed to catch the super rich gin palace trade so perhaps all is not lost. I think that if the planners have an open mind then perhaps there is hope. Just as a pub I don't see a healthy future but both The Locks and the Waveney River Centre have shown that being miles from anywhere can be a recipe for success. Perhaps Berney needs additional attractions, glamping maybe. I think that last line says it all. Any pub is a struggle, so a pub with limited access is going to be even more so. If however, the pub was bought with freehold by someone with a lot of investment who could either lease, or buy some of the surrounding land, it would make an ideal riverside touring caravan and camping (glamping) park, also with a possible B+B. The downside is the transport links, or lack of them, which will always be the fly in the ointment. I can`t honestly see the local authorities going down the route of building a road, and the utility companies upgrading services for only a pub. Build an estate of so called affordable housing, and they`ll throw money at it. Does anybody think it would be suitable for a tesco express?. .....................I`l get me coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitrunner Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Tesco express would be handy if you were short of beer before crossing breydon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Good old Tesco. Destroyed more pubs than Hitler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranworthbreeze Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 Hi Howard, I don't shop at Tesco and would never shop at Tesco Express, we have one on our main road, never been in, far too expensive and the death of local shops. Regards Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadScot Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 14 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said: Hi Howard, I don't shop at Tesco and would never shop at Tesco Express, we have one on our main road, never been in, far too expensive and the death of local shops. Regards Alan Hi Alan, They closed the Tesco Express here in Troon, folks can count up here! It was dearer than Waitrose, and always empty of customers. Thankfully the locals support all the private local shops here. Which brings me back to the thread, the pub requires to be well supported to survive! IMHO. Iain 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Is it still open now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Passed by on Wednesday but couldn't stop. Hard to tell if it was open or not. Historically it always closed in the winter. Will try to have a look on the way back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Well we are moored outside the Berney at the mo. No sign of life and a small sign in the window saying we are closed. There was a window open upstairs so there is probably someone there. It's probably best not to leave it empty. The old licence I think only covered something like March to November unless anything has changed. New paint looks quite smart though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracie Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I absolutely love that place, you know you are on the Broads but kind of get the feeling you are out in the wilds, every year on my childhood holidays we would stop there, sitting outside with a packet of crisps and a real beer shandy watching boats come and go was pure heaven, I seem to remember it was always busy when we stopped there, if only it could be so again Grace 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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