Carbon Monoxide Alarm

[CambridgeCabby]

seeking recommendations please of suitable alarms for a boat .

There are so many on EBay (other sites are available) that I have no idea of their suitability for a boating environment 

[deebee29]

We have these at home and always take one with us when on a boat.

they are excellent and we don't get any false triggers

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kidde-Monoxide-replaceable-batteries-Warranty/dp/B00ABGEL62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496337558&sr=8-1&keywords=co+monitor

[tjg1677]

Kiddie or dicon are the types that the fire brigade usually hand out or for. Beware buying this stuff off eBay, one day your life may depend on it.

Trev

[oceandawn]

We have three of these on our boat. They are very sensitive(a good thing). When we were in the wetshed just running the engine in a smallish space would trigger them off. It makes you wonder what you breathe in when moored next to a boat running it's engines.

[MauriceMynah]

Hmmm, Time to duck me thinks.

Much has been said about CO and the detectors for it. Don't get me wrong, I have one, I just don't know what to do about it. We have one at home too, and lt went off last winter. We could find no source of CO and it was a devil to reset. It was 1am and raining. I asked the members here what action I should have taken, but nobody really knew. Perhaps more importantly, I still have no idea what to do if mine goes off on the boat (for no obvious reason).

I have been boating for fifty years and I've never yet died of CO poisoning. I take the view that common sense and proper ventilation is all that's needed. Check flames on the cooker for yellowish tips and if present GET THE UNIT CHECKED OVER BY AN EXPERT. Smoke  and CO alarms can be used to back up your own instincts, but don't live by them alone.

[Guest]

My first stop was and still would be anything that has the recommendation of the fire service , co2 alarms should and hopefully one day be mandatory on a boat .

[dnks34]

Be wary of this type of carbon monoxide alarm sold on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291985534761 

I had one untill I saw a piece on Fake Britain about them being unfit for purpose when tested by the experts.  After exposure to high levels of carbon monoxide this model could be permenantly damaged and give future false readings.  Mine went in the bin. 

I now have 3 of these onboard:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121870907516 

They are the well known trusted kidde brand and I like the push in battery drawer feature as they can be deactivated if im leaving the boat for a long period with just 1 finger!

You have to be very careful with ebay for fake products, even the big brands get faked and sold on there.   

[BuffaloBill]

Link does'nt work.

[CambridgeCabby]

48 minutes ago, deebee29 said:

We have these at home and always take one with us when on a boat.

they are excellent and we don't get any false triggers

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kidde-Monoxide-replaceable-batteries-Warranty/dp/B00ABGEL62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496337558&sr=8-1&keywords=co+monitor

Thank you all for your advice , have ordered the above , thank you deebee29

[dnks34]

It might be because I copied the links in the app rather than on proper tinterweb.

try these

 

Avoid these:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sell-CO-Carbon-Monoxide-Poisoning-Gas-Sensor-Alarm-Detector-UK-stock-JKD602-/171307191932?hash=item27e2b44e7c%3Ag%3A-CYAAOSwBLlVUWdx&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa91339fb-46f9-11e7-8fa8-74dbd180be73%7Cparentrq%3A64f4ac5d15c0a9c4530833e4fffc3b1c%7Ciid%3A7

 

I now have these:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kidde-Combined-Smoke-and-Carbon-Monoxide-Detector-Alarm-10SCO-/121870907516?hash=item1c6012787c%3Ag%3A0ToAAOSwGotWn~Df&_trkparms=pageci%3Aed512b25-46f9-11e7-9651-74dbd180b226%7Cparentrq%3A64f66b9415c0ab6b44438ec5fffee51e%7Ciid%3A1

 

[Viking23]

We have one in the cabin with a digital display, and when the petrol outboard is running on the mooring and the rear of the cockpit cover open to the elements, you can smell the fumes coming in, sometimes the digital display reads 55 ppm but hasn't reached the trigger level, so time to do something about it.

It has also happened whilst cruising with the wind behind us and the canopy completely down, the fumes go passed us forward into the cabin, and readings of 33 ppm detected, we also have a fixed alarm with no display, but if that goes off, then we have been exposed to Co for a long time at much higher levels, so the display works for us. Early prevention, essential.

Just closing a hatch or opening a side window affects the Co levels very quickly, it can also make it worse, so in my opinion, ventilation alone without monitoring is just not enough.

Co alarms have been known to be triggered falsely by battery fumes, so good ventilation is essential, and best to use the vent kits with pipes going outside the boat to reduce the explosive gases and sometimes sulphur dioxide and hydrogen sulphide when the batteries are near the end of their lives.

If a Co alarm goes off in the night, ventilate the boat well, in extreme cases get the crew on deck.

Switch off ALL fuel burning appliances, heaters, gas fridges , generators, engines etc. Wear an extra pair of socks and a hat lol, but also consider you might be being poisoned by the exhaust of a boat on either side of you, more especially with stern on moorings, or where the quay heading is high and wind speed low, and a flume of Co gas building up around the boats. You might have to wake the crew on the offending boat, they might not have a Co alarm, and may well be exposed to fumes much higher than you. They won't like being woken, but better than not waking at all... Yes they could die overnight. Ask them if they suffer headaches, some will say yes of course, some through over indulgence, dehydration etc but others exposure to high levels of Co.

Co does kill, just because you haven't died so far isn't proof that all is ok, after all, how many times has you car seat belt saved your life, luckily most of us haven't been in that position, but we clunk click every trip.  Maybe some only do it because it's the law, but I would guess that most do it as a just in case situation. After all, an airbag in a car is not that effective if the seat belt is not in use as well.

Keep safe, keep your crew safe, keep your neighbours safe too, fit a Co alarm.

Richard

[Chelsea14Ian]

I think we got ours at Roy's in Wroxham. We have it in the front cabin.When I am cooking I shut the door.Just in case it goes off .One at home also.I agree going forward I would like to see them fitted to all new boats.

Ian

[ExMemberBobdog]

I believe the BA are currently promoting the use of CO alarms, particularly in response to the sad events of last year.  I understand that the Ranger launches have been fitted with alarms, and that the Rangers now carry such alarms on board for sale to the public.

[deebee29]

Herbert Woods now have both CO and smoke detectors fitted on all of their fleet from this season

I don't know if any other yard has followed suit yet

[Viking23]

10 hours ago, dnks34 said:

... I now have these:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kidde-Combined-Smoke-and-Carbon-Monoxide-Detector-Alarm-10SCO-/121870907516?hash=item1c6012787c%3Ag%3A0ToAAOSwGotWn~Df&_trkparms=pageci%3Aed512b25-46f9-11e7-9651-74dbd180b226%7Cparentrq%3A64f66b9415c0ab6b44438ec5fffee51e%7Ciid%3A1

 

I do have a reservation on these types, as the positioning of a smoke alarm   may well be different to the positioning of a Co alarm, and at best it's a compromise. But any alarm is better than nothing, but if wrongly positioned might as well not be there.

Instructions vary on alarms, for smoke alarm avoid the ceiling to wall corners but generally fit them high as smoke normally rises, however Carbon Monoxide is around the same density as normal air so fitting to a ceiling might not be the best place.... or is it?

I would like to see a data sheet as to where best to site a smoke alarm and a Co alarm and compare that to a combined smoke/Co alarm. 

A boat is different to a house, low ceilings, often more ventilation than a house too, so as conditions are different maybe something needs to be revised for fitting to a boat.

For reference, our Co alarm shows the ppm, and is positioned on a forward facing bulkhead, about 4' forward of the rear door, and about a foot down from the ceiling. The position is opposite to the cooker, and the Paloma instantaneous gas powered water heater, with no false alarms from those yet... So as it measures building Co levels from the engine when running, I think this is a good location for my application. However, it would not be a good position for a smoke alarm, due to false triggering from burnt toast, so the smoke alarm is placed on the ceiling further forward over the front "V" berth, this is an optical one, rather than the ionisation one, less prone to going off with toast lol.

I am not recommending where to position either smoke alarms or Co alarms, but this works for us in a rear cockpit single cabin cruiser of 23' length.  "I think" I adhered to the manufacturer's recommendations, but any further advice greatfully received. 

When fitting alarms, if all else fails, read the instructions... No this is not good advice, your life and others may depend on it, so read the instructions first, be preparred to resite them too if they are not performing well, and keep the instructions on board, and note the replace by date too. 

Keep safe.

Carbon Monoxide, the silent killer.

Richard

[JawsOrca]

Saved by these when our solid stove flue blocked in the middle of the night.. There's no excuses for not having one.. Things may have been different in the old days, single glazing etc... but modern world is far more draft free and natural selection is working better these days.

We have fireangel digital display (http://fireangel.co.uk/products/carbon-monoxide-alarms/co-9d/) this really is one thing to spend money on.  I have no idea why anyone would not have one or have a cheap unbranded one.

If they go off, turn off the gas or other dinosaur drinking device, open the windows, go outside and you will quickly start to wake up..without one then it's goodnight!

Reading the instructions contained within them is probably a good idea too.. as they need to be positioned lower than smoke alarms and probably give you some helpful advice.

[ExMemberBobdog]

27 minutes ago, deebee29 said:

Herbert Woods now have both CO and smoke detectors fitted on all of their fleet from this season

I don't know if any other yard has followed suit yet

Barnes Brinkcraft had them fitted last season.

[MauriceMynah]

I shall say again, I am not against co alarms, I have one. Where I do have a problem is that it seems to have made people paranoid.

Question. If you were to stand in Oxford Street holding one when the traffic levels were reasonably high, would it go off?

No, I don't know either but I suspect levels there will be higher than when the boat next door to you runs it's engine in Salhouse.

2 hours ago, Viking23 said:

If a Co alarm goes off in the night, ventilate the boat well, in extreme cases get the crew on deck.

Sorry Richard but this is kinda what I mean. Ok, Its 1am and its raining slightly. The co alarm has gone off. I can find no reason for it to have done so, so I'm standing on the bank and all the boat windows are open. I've also left all the doors open too. There are no other boats close and no engines/c-heating running. Now what? What's next? What do I do?

In the morning (having stood on the bank all night) what do I do now? Who can tell me what happened? How can I prevent it happening again? From whom should I take advice?

Has the device saved my life or am I going to die of pneumonia for nothing?

I'm not just 'banging on' about it, I genuinely want to know the answers to at least SOME of those questions. At  home when it went off, I finally managed to silence it and my sister and I went back to bed.(our separate ones before anybody gets any ideas !!!) We each slept quite badly wondering if we were going to wake up again but apart from that Nothing! The alarm proved itself as useless purely because we didn't know what to do! 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, deebee29 said:

I don't know if any other yard has followed suit yet

The boat I had from Richardsons had a CO alarm in the galley and a CO2 alarm in each sleeping cabin.

[deebee29]

I don't know the answer to this MM

I do know that we first got ours (at home) after a dear friend who's 90 now almost died in her home when her well serviced central heating system developed a fault. She had no symptoms other than feeling tired so told her doctor who acted quickly.

she was one of the lucky ones because she survived 

needless to say that she has an alarm now

[Viking23]

Just now, MauriceMynah said:

...The alarm proved itself as useless purely because we didn't know what to do! 

We have two Co alarms, we found the digital display version more sensitive to low levels, and in the worst case, you could move it forward or aft to help locate the source of the Co. Co alarms do go faulty, so maybe best to have two, from different manufacturers or go for three and go for a majority fail ie what do 2 out of three say? We can get paramoid on this, but since we bought a non display version first, that is still on the boat, so we can sleep well at night. I'm not sure if Co alarms are susceptible to moisture, eg from the shower or kettle, I know some smoke alarms are.

Richard

[MauriceMynah]

Fair enough DeeBee, but I find myself having even more questions.

How can you test a unit to check that it's working properly?   Should I put the unit where probable sources are, or where I'm most likely to be?

Richard, Yes, 2 votes out of 3 is a good idea, but lets say two of them are screaming "Get outta there" , after evacuating and ventilating, then what?... actually I think I have part of the answer to that, it's occurred to me that the best option would be to wrap up warm and then sleep with all doors and windows wide open. Further investigation to take place in the morning. 

[Viking23]

I think MM if two alarms are screaming at you, then I think this would be very rare, if all fuel burning aplliances are extinguished. Ventilation should quieten down the alarms anyway, but it might be possible that certain under arm spray, air fresheners could damage the sensing elements of the alarms, so maybe look at aerosol usage too.

I will now mention another cause of false alarms....  baked beans or any other food that causes vast amounts of wind lol. If in doubt, share your sleeping bag with your Co alarm lol...

Richard

[MauriceMynah]

2 out of 3 (or even all 3) would tell me that there IS a problem and it's time to act. fair enough, life saved, investment justified. Now I need to prove "was it outside coming in or inside and not getting out" the latter will be most likely if no engines / c-heating is running so sleep in over ventilated boat.

Now, if there IS an engine running (or central heating unit) place co detector on deck outside, next to the window nearest to the probable source.  if it fires off again (assuming its not MY c-heating) ... well I'll leave that option to peoples imagination.

Yes, 3 detectors seems to be a satisfactory solution. Next question is... "At what level of CO should the alarm be set at?" 

[ZimbiIV]

From what I understand ( from a fire safety course at work ) is.

Most CO alerts are caused by a weak battery, change it yearly.

A sealed unit change it every 5 years.

Every unit will have a death date on it, change it the year before that date.

If the unit activates and you feel groggy get the HELL out there immediately.

If you feel ok move the unit and yourself into the fresh air, wait 10 mins then go back inside, try the test button, then stay awake for at least 1 hour. If there are no further alerts, open a window. Change the battery asap.

A freestanding CO monitor should be positioned at normal sitting height.

It may seem a pain to do this in the middle of the night, but it is better than not waking up! (I think as I have not tried not waking up).

Some decaying rubbish can give of CO so put any rubbish out of the cabin before retiring to bed.

I lost a very good friend and nearly his family when they went to sleep in a caravan with a cooling barbeque outside an open window!

paul