Parking / Mooring Meters - Is This The Thin End Of The Wedge ?

[Matt]

Although Matt you say there were two lost moorings, methinks you have forgotten Acle Bridge. Was that new to the BA and now free??

 

 

Your right I had and also Thurne mouth coming back but smaller so I guess they offset each other a fair amount?

 

 

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[Matt]

At least you can share any added cost burden amongst your owners!

It's not an exclusive members club- anyone can buy a share!

But not in Thunder as there are not any for sale :-)


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[ZimbiIV]

What bothers me more is how long before parish councils think this is a good idea?

Reedham refused BA the ability to charge.

Rockland, Horning, Wroxham/Hoveton, Coltishall et al decide, we councillors can have a pay rise out of this.

paul

[Matt]

 
Your right I had and also Thurne mouth coming back but smaller so I guess they offset each other a fair amount?
 
 
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And I had also forgotten the loss of the moorings opposite Horning Staithe......


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[BITTERNBOY]

Sorry there has to be a better way to fund moorings so we can keep the charm of the Broads that we all love surely the answer is not PARKING METERS lining our beloved waterway. THEY JUST DON'T LOOK RIGHT ! 

[Timbo]

I think I'm in agreement with Bitternboy. To my mind, our broads and rivers 'littered' with parking metres is a bit of an obscenity and one that does not bode well for the future of boating on the Broads both esthetically or financially.

The situation regarding moorings is a double-edged sword. Landowners need to generate an income in order to maintain the land and the moorings. I don't mind paying for moorings with facilities, Salhouse, for example, has the quay headings, fresh water, a place for your barbecue, walks, climbing and play areas for the kids and above all solid and effective management of the land for the future of the broad, boating, wildlife and the people that work on and for that estate. To be honest, Salhouse is an example of the kind of land management strategy the Broads Authority should have employed, but don't.

But, for every night I would pay to moor at Salhouse I would want to spend two or three night's moored 'in the wild' so to speak. To enjoy the 'freedom' of the landscape and boating, not to mention the costs of mooring. As we all know, boating is not an 'inexpensive' hobby, past time or holiday. If we are rapidly heading towards a £10 a night mooring fee across most moorings on the broads that an extra £140 onto the price of your two-week holiday. My fear is that the Broads Boating Holiday will become more and more exclusive experience as the opportunity to wild moor, get off the beaten track or use free public moorings get fewer and fewer. 

My time is a bit short this morning, however, I did look at the 'numbers' in the last BA statement regarding the amount of mooring lost year on year. Even with the new development and acquisition of moorings at Acle and Thurne by the BA, the year on year loss of moorings is considerable. To be honest, I don't buy into the 'chunder' about greedy landowners demanding more money for rents coming from the Broads Authority. The Broads Authority, an authority with responsibility for the local plan and powers that go with that responsibility. Powers that come under section 226(1)(a) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 or section 226(1)(b) of the 1990 Act. If there is a will, there is a way and to be honest, I don't think landowners are the problem. Yes the parking metres are ugly and a bit of guidance from an authority that knew what it was doing would have been appropriate...and I mean guidance, not a big boot. There are better ways and means, most of them come from the landowners and not the BA, but the pressure on the available cost-effective public mooring is only going to increase as time goes on.

[Vaughan]

14 hours ago, marshman said:

why does everyone on the Broads think the moorings should be free? You hire a motor caravan and everywhere you go you pay extra - extra for parking in towns, on viewpoints, at many many visitor attractions ( often extra on top! ) and at campsites.

 

That's an excellent post, Timbo and I would like to reply to Marshman at the same time.

Firstly, as a camper van owner, there are plenty of opportunities for "wild mooring" and we almost never use organised sites as we have solar panels. 

I come from the days when NO-ONE charged for mooring on the Broads. All the pubs were free and all the boatyards as well. If you moored on an earth bank with rhond hooks you could pick wild mushrooms in the meadow in the morning and then go and see the farmer to buy milk and eggs.

If I remember right, the first place to start charging was Yarmouth yacht station, after Blakes gave up the lease. The real malaise, in the 70s and started by Horning Ferry, was when pubs started to charge their own customers for parking their boats so that they could patronise the pub! You wouldn't pay to park your car in a pub, so why a boat?

I seriously believe that this trend to charge for moorings everywhere was largely responsible for the disastrous recession in tourism of the 1980s, from which Broads boating has never even half recovered. As for the farmers, in the 70s, a lot of work was done on the river banks to protect their land and this involved made up quay heading, as the banks were being eroded by water pollution. So the farmer ended up with what looked like a made up mooring, provided free by the Commissioners and thought "Oh good! I might as well charge people to moor on it".

I do NOT agree that it should now be accepted that wherever you now go on the Broads you should have to pay, with or without any facilities provided.

I have always seen this as killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.

 

[Stranger]

its bad enough the Ferry Inn charging you a fiver to go eat in the pub at lunchtime for mooring then the foods rubbish so it will be continued to be missed  

 

[Wussername]

It would seem that the Ferry Inn Horning is to go for auction by Allsop on the 17th October. Lot 132.

Anticipated value £750,000 to £850,000

  

[NorfolkNog]

That's interesting, got a lottery ticket, will check it later. Just hope for a good outcome, not one of the best pubs on the Broads (and I'm being polite)  

[JennyMorgan]

Vaughan has mentioned the downward turn in the fortunes of the Broads. On the other hand James Knight has suggested that a tenner to moor is not much, or words to that effect. Well, I tend to side with Vaughan on this one, and not just because I had a good fry up of marsh mushrooms today! A tenner is nothing to some folk, to others it's an hour or more of hard work. However you look at it mooring charges could add up to fifty quid to the cost of a week's holiday, on top of car parking, leccy hook-ups and pump outs. 

[dnks34]

Just now, JennyMorgan said:

Vaughan has mentioned the downward turn in the fortunes of the Broads. On the other hand James Knight has suggested that a tenner to moor is not much, or words to that effect. Well, I tend to side with Vaughan on this one, and not just because I had a good fry up of marsh mushrooms today! A tenner is nothing to some folk, to others it's an hour or more of hard work. However you look at it mooring charges could add up to fifty quid to the cost of a week's holiday, on top of car parking, leccy hook-ups and pump outs. 

Putting it like that and after reading Vaughan's thoughts I am actually inclined to agree. 

I was looking at it from the angle that mooring facilities need to be maintained and the money to do that needs to come from somewhere but then on the other hand we are getting charged for absolutely every little thing possible these days and its fast become a culture of greed. 

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, dnks34 said:

Putting it like that and after reading Vaughan's thoughts I am actually inclined to agree. 

I was looking at it from the angle that mooring facilities need to be maintained and the money to do that needs to come from somewhere but then on the other hand we are getting charged for absolutely every little thing possible these days and its fast become a culture of greed. 

Exactly.

Some businesses take and have taken huge amounts out of the Broads . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

                                  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a pity that they didn't and don't put something worthwhile back in. 

[marshman]

Timbo - I just cannot find the figure the the BA admit to being "lost moorings"? My recollection is that it is the other way - although I agree they would say that!! Equally whether you believe it or not, some of the "lost" moorings ARE as a result  of landowners putting up the leasing costs to a level which the BA cannot, or will not pay. These days they rarely do anything without advice and I can almost guarantee that they will have on file advice from someone like the District Valuer, or whatever they are now called, says is the market value! However you decide that!! If they offered them "free" to the BA , I am sure there would be plenty of moorings!

Vaughan - I don't like the charging trend either and it is indeed a long way from your day - but that was perhaps at least 50 years ago and in reality, like it or not, life has actually moved on!

[Vaughan]

2 minutes ago, marshman said:

Vaughan - I don't like the charging trend either and it is indeed a long way from your day - but that was perhaps at least 50 years ago and in reality, like it or not, life has actually moved on!

But has it changed for the better?

I would suggest that the decline, and eventual death, of so many pubs on the Broads began when they started charging for moorings.

 

[JennyMorgan]

Fifty years ago we didn't have the culture of greed & sleaze that we do today. Life doesn't always move on for the better.

[JennyMorgan]

A lesson could be learned from Gt Yarmouth. For far too long YH has been milked and milked again. Yarmouth has subsequently lost its greatness.

[Bound2Please]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

A lesson could be learned from Gt Yarmouth. For far too long YH has been milked and milked again. Yarmouth has subsequently lost its greatness.

Southend was like Gt Yarmouth in the 70/80's yjey saw the error ot their ways invested in it and now it thrives again. Clacton in 80/90's became neglected, but now due to huge investments is starting to pick up again.

I would hate to see the Broads go down like the Essex towns, as its easy to let it go to pot, but much much harder to revive once at rock bottom.

Charlie

[Timbo]

4 hours ago, marshman said:

Timbo - I just cannot find the figure the the BA admit to being "lost moorings"? My recollection is that it is the other way - although I agree they would say that!! Equally whether you believe it or not, some of the "lost" moorings ARE as a result  of landowners putting up the leasing costs to a level which the BA cannot, or will not pay. These days they rarely do anything without advice and I can almost guarantee that they will have on file advice from someone like the District Valuer, or whatever they are now called, says is the market value! However you decide that!! If they offered them "free" to the BA , I am sure there would be plenty of moorings!

Vaughan - I don't like the charging trend either and it is indeed a long way from your day - but that was perhaps at least 50 years ago and in reality, like it or not, life has actually moved on!

Morning Marshman. I found the notes I made after a bit of digging on my old works hard drive.

 

You were quite right in thinking that there had been an increase in moorings between 2006 and 2016, well on paper anyway. In 2006 the BA was responsible for 5,969m of moorings. In 2016 that figure had increased to 7,426m of moorings. However, the adoption of the 2006 Mooring Strategy sort of jiggled the numbers a bit. You see,  2,457m of those moorings were counted twice in the final figure as they were designated double moorings with the adoption of the Integrated Access Strategy in 2013. So if we 'un-massage' those figures we see that somewhere between 2006 and 2016 they lost 1090m of moorings. We do have to bear in mind that 'wild' moorings are counted in that figure, so I'm thinking areas like Fleet Dyke will be included in that loss. So far this season there has been an overall loss of an additional 174m of mooring bringing the total loss over ten years to 1264m. 

Looking at the Mooring Strategy going forward there is quite a concern regarding further losses. It appears that the Environment Agency will be no longer footing the bill for piling work, instead passing on the costs to the landowner/leaseholder. If landowners and the BA are suddenly having to foot the bill for piling, they will need to cover the costs of that work. Hence the landowner wanting more money from the lease and the BA shedding leases where the piling will need replacing shortly.

Out of 37 assets in 2016, seven have been vacated, nineteen are unsettled with negotiations still underway regarding lease and who is going to foot the bill for piling. This leaves only eleven sites secured.

Worried? I am, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why any rational organisation is not doing everything in its power to provide facilities for an increase in tourism? The more facilities, more tourists. More tourists, more Broads Authority Grant from Central Government. More facilities for boats, more privately owned boats, more boats, more tolls.

[Cheesey]

Simple really. If we could have a do over, then BA would take over every bank and broad and would be no problem.

But the Broads evolved piecemeal and typical of this country an impressive sounding name covers limited powers.

As income and transport moved away from the broads most land owners no longer had to fight the rising waters or tend to the banks, the river became just another field boundary.

A major change in law is needed. The EA should take over all river banks to 3 meters.

Why should public money pay for flood defence and we then denied the use of it?

If the landowner can't or won't pay then we have it off you and the public will still be protected.

Because believe me, if the Broads don't get more free moorings then it will turn into an elitist destination.

[Timbo]

14 minutes ago, Cheesey said:

Because believe me, if the Broads don't get more free moorings then it will turn into an elitist destination.

On that last bit, I do agree with you Cheesy, wholeheartedly. But, I don't think the BA should take on control of all of the banks. That's a hell of a lot of money that would need spending and the BA just don't have the pockets for it. Tolls would skyrocket and we would be back to the Broads being an elitist destination, just more so. 

As for more powers for the BA, they have considerable powers as it is. They just don't exercise them when they need to and, on many occasions recently, drag them out and dust them off inappropriately. My former colleagues at UNESCO and ICOMOS had fits of jealousy when they saw the range of powers at the disposal of a small quango such as the Broads Authority. As a planning and port authority, they have a superb 'toolkit' of far-reaching powers to tackle anything dropped in their laps, all neatly bundled in the two Broads Acts. The only thing missing is someone that knows their anorectum from their lateral epicondyle to use the tools.

 

[Cheesey]

That was a best scenario.

Is it the remit of BA? Trying to keep everybody happy they vibrate in place?

Me personally, since the place is about as natural as a tuna sandwich, I would place the boating world slightly higher than the rest. Keep people coming back to it, keep them loving it and keep people interested in it.

Where I work very few people know of the Broads and those that do know is often memories from old holidays.

I've been going there on and off for 30 years and I have seen the decline of the Broads as a place to visit but at least nature is doing well.

I now sail around the s.e. coast in my boat but I still come back to the Broads and indeed plan on sailing right in for a week next year.

But I'm still puzzled why it's so hard to moor in Wroxham, Horning and the like and the sad end of world that is Potter and yet Beccles provides?

Or that getting water is getting harder and that no mooring signs are a growing industry.

Sad rant over.

[TostockTimonier]

It's just occurred to me, if the mooring is now part of Ferry Marina and they are members of the Broads Hire Boat Federation, is it free to moor for hire craft?

[marshman]

So on that basis, I assume you think that if there is a space in the private marina bit of Ferry, you could moor there as well???

 

[TostockTimonier]

marshman, I try not to think too much, it usually gets me into trouble.