Parking / Mooring Meters - Is This The Thin End Of The Wedge ?

[BITTERNBOY]

Please no....

http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/parking-ticket-machine-on-broads-mooring-causes-stir-amongst-boaters-1-5211488

[Vaughan]

If this was in France, then once the pheasant shooting season started, it would get both barrels from a twelve bore! The same as they do for radar cameras.

[JennyMorgan]

I fear that it is the thin edge of a rather alarming wedge. If folk want to charge and other folk want to pay then so be it, their right, but an eyesore parking meter on the water's edge, argggggggggg!

[TheQ]

The problem being if you made the meter to blend in no one would find it...

 As for the rights and wrongs someone has to pay for the maintenance of the mooring (and it does need some repairs). if BA won't use our money for it. then this is the way to collect it, putting someone across there for hours to collect money would spend most of the income..

[Chelsea14Ian]

You must have missed something. This is nothing to do with BA.

 

[Cockatoo]

Nothing wrong with the idea of a ticket machine per se. The problems arise when they try to impose penalties, dressed up as genuine fines, for any 'infringement'. They then realise that there is more money to be made from fining* people than there is from the parking mooring charges themselves and that's where it begins.

 

*and of course it's not a real fine, just an invoice made to look like a fine to scare people into paying it.

[Guest]

Unless owner/hirer at the time gives their name and address, how is the landowner to know who they are, to take the issue further? This statement is based on my belief that it would be infringement of data protection laws for either the boatyard or BA to provide this information.

[imtamping2]

Just now, Philosophical said:

Unless owner/hirer at the time gives their name and address, how is the landowner to know who they are, to take the issue further? This statement is based on my belief that it would be infringement of data protection laws for either the boatyard or BA to provide this information.

That's correct........so basically un-enforceable.........ticket machines ain't chap .........

[TheQ]

I didn't miss anything, BA have dropped out of paying for several moorings lately including these ones, the moorings  then went to the Ferry Inn who also dropped out. Now Len Funnel has taken them over and in order to provided the money to look after the moorings he has gone to the not inconsiderable expense of fitting a parking meter.

It would be quite possible to to take the boatyard to court as owner of the boat for the fees, if they do not pay, saying they are not responsible, the court would require the boatyard to provide details of the hirer.

The hire companies would then rapidly add to their terms any requests for mooring fees would come out of the deposit...

 

 Some one has to pay or there will be no Moorings left on the Broads...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TheQ said:

I didn't miss anything, BA have dropped out of paying for several moorings lately including these ones, the moorings  then went to the Ferry Inn who also dropped out. Now Len Funnel has taken them over and in order to provided the money to look after the moorings he has gone to the not inconsiderable expense of fitting a parking meter.

It would be quite possible to to take the boatyard to court as owner of the boat for the fees, if they do not pay, saying they are not responsible, the court would require the boatyard to provide details of the hirer.

The hire companies would then rapidly add to their terms any requests for mooring fees would come out of the deposit...

 

 Some one has to pay or there will be no Moorings left on the Broads...

I have no problem with paying to moor my boat on private land where the landowner has paid firstly for the land and secondly to build and maintain the quay. If I think the fee is excessive then I'll just look for somewhere cheaper or free.

I regard the broads as little bit of escapism from normal life; parking meters, yellow lines, little paper tickets with numbers to get served, temporary traffic lights in Brundall etc, so to see a parking meter which also happens to be quite unattractive is disappointing, particularly when it appears to offers the landowner little benefit for all his expense over a strong honesty box.

[Cockatoo]

25 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

Unless owner/hirer at the time gives their name and address, how is the landowner to know who they are, to take the issue further? This statement is based on my belief that it would be infringement of data protection laws for either the boatyard or BA to provide this information.

And yet DVLA make a lot of money providing owners names and addresses to parking companies.

[Guest]

Just now, SteveDuk said:

And yet DVLA make a lot of moneu providing owners names and addresses to parking companies.

 

Just now, SteveDuk said:

And yet DVLA make a lot of moneu providing owners names and addresses to parking companies.

I would hope that the legislation that allows this would not apply to boats (and a lot of other things) 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

And yet DVLA make a lot of money providing owners names and addresses to parking companies.

Your comment made me curious as to how they indeed do get the data, so I looked at the DVLA website for an answer. I attach a "cut n paste" from their website 

Private car parking management companies that give out parking tickets or trespass charge notices can only request information from DVLA if they’re members of the British Parking Association or the International Parking Community. 

[LondonRascal]

I really cannot see the issue. People complain about lack of moorings, they also complain about how funds are used by the Broads Authority, and I;d agree they could be used better - but they are not and that is where we are. As a result when leases come to ends, the Broad Authority no longer try and negotiate renewal of the Lease if the landowner is seeking an increase in premium.

So in the case of the moorings at Horning, they have been previously free for use under Lease to the Broads Authority then closed off, then opened back up all under the ownership of the Ferry Inn, and now under ownership of Mr Knight at Ferry Marina.  This all does cost money, not just to Lease them, but the obligations to look after them so if such is not being paid for out of Tolls income as would be the case if Broads Authority leased, what should one realistically do - Spend a fortune to Lease moorings and maintain them but out of the goodness of your heart let anyone use them for nothing?

This approach of the 'mooring meter' is a good one. It is a more formal arrangement than a tin box to put some money in, and it does not require the constant visiting of a Warden to collect money and issue receipts such as happens at other locations - Salhouse for one.

I am sure a good number of boats will moor and not bother to get a mooring ticket, and I suspect too there won't me much 'policing' going on so that gets around the issue of PCN's being issued for non-payment or overstaying - have we info on any sort of penalties or has so far talk of such been based on assumption?

I say it is more to see how often people do bother to pay, but I don't think the idea of pay to moor is wrong one bit.  It would perhaps be nice if for payments you got more back (as I have said in my long posts of the past on the subject) but while this is not as technically advanced as some of my ideas, it at least brings an easy, semi-autonomous way for people to pay to moor and I suspect it won't have been lost on others this could be the future, perhaps also for coin-op water refilling if not for mooring. My prediction: More of this to come in the future but from the Broads Authority themselves.

 

[Bound2Please]

You live in real world Robin well said

Charlie

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I really cannot see the issue. People complain about lack of moorings, they also complain about how funds are used by the Broads Authority, and I;d agree they could be used better - but they are not and that is where we are. As a result when leases come to ends, the Broad Authority no longer try and negotiate renewal of the Lease if the landowner is seeking an increase in premium.

So in the case of the moorings at Horning, they have been previously free for use under Lease to the Broads Authority then closed off, then opened back up all under the ownership of the Ferry Inn, and now under ownership of Mr Knight at Ferry Marina.  This all does cost money, not just to Lease them, but the obligations to look after them so if such is not being paid for out of Tolls income as would be the case if Broads Authority leased, what should one realistically do - Spend a fortune to Lease moorings and maintain them but out of the goodness of your heart let anyone use them for nothing?

This approach of the 'mooring meter' is a good one. It is a more formal arrangement than a tin box to put some money in, and it does not require the constant visiting of a Warden to collect money and issue receipts such as happens at other locations - Salhouse for one.

I am sure a good number of boats will moor and not bother to get a mooring ticket, and I suspect too there won't me much 'policing' going on so that gets around the issue of PCN's being issued for non-payment or overstaying - have we info on any sort of penalties or has so far talk of such been based on assumption?

I say it is more to see how often people do bother to pay, but I don't think the idea of pay to moor is wrong one bit.  It would perhaps be nice if for payments you got more back (as I have said in my long posts of the past on the subject) but while this is not as technically advanced as some of my ideas, it at least brings an easy, semi-autonomous way for people to pay to moor and I suspect it won't have been lost on others this could be the future, perhaps also for coin-op water refilling if not for mooring. My prediction: More of this to come in the future but from the Broads Authority themselves.

 

Maybe the land owners could offset the cost of the meters and gain addition revenue through sponsorship. Image a meter with a sign" This mooring meter has been sponsored by the Broads Authority"

[Guest]

They could have at least changed the P on the side to an M

 

[Poppy]

A thought occurs to me.  With the 'Blessed Authority' having to shell out less in providing moorings as is indeed the case, will this be reflected in a reduction in tolls charged ? 

Bet not......

[Cheesey]

Can't wait to see them clamp a boat 

[imtamping2]

1 hour ago, 40something said:

They could have at least changed the P on the side to an M

 

That's for the dogs benefit.........

[JennyMorgan]

I really can not see how 'parking' can be enforced if no one is going to police both the meter and the mooring. So I choose not to pay, so what? If someone is going to have to patrol the mooring then they might as well collect the fees. Mr Funnel is normally pretty much on the ball but in this case I really don't see this one as having been thought through. At least he's not expecting folk to e-mail him and pay by credit/debit card or risk having to pay double! 

[Matt]

I really cannot see the issue. People complain about lack of moorings, they also complain about how funds are used by the Broads Authority, and I;d agree they could be used better - but they are not and that is where we are. As a result when leases come to ends, the Broad Authority no longer try and negotiate renewal of the Lease if the landowner is seeking an increase in premium.
So in the case of the moorings at Horning, they have been previously free for use under Lease to the Broads Authority then closed off, then opened back up all under the ownership of the Ferry Inn, and now under ownership of Mr Knight at Ferry Marina.  This all does cost money, not just to Lease them, but the obligations to look after them so if such is not being paid for out of Tolls income as would be the case if Broads Authority leased, what should one realistically do - Spend a fortune to Lease moorings and maintain them but out of the goodness of your heart let anyone use them for nothing?

I think the issue is that there was such a large toll increase his year for some boats yet the BA moorings start to disappear....

Thunders toll went up around £100 this year and the benefit is two lost BA moorings!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dnks34]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

I think the issue is that there was such a large toll increase his year for some boats yet the BA moorings start to disappear....

Thunders toll went up around £100 this year and the benefit is two lost BA moorings!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

At least you can share any added cost burden amongst your owners!

We really did pay an extra hundred quid for nowt. 

Im still waiting for the next years toll increase rumours to start, even a rise inline with inflation will be to much as far as im concerned.

[marshman]

Although Matt you say there were two lost moorings, methinks you have forgotten Acle Bridge. Was that new to the BA and now free??

Robin is absolutely right in his post And why does everyone on the Broads think the moorings should be free? You hire a motor caravan and everywhere you go you pay extra - extra for parking in towns, on viewpoints, at many many visitor attractions ( often extra on top! ) and at campsites. How much for e.g do you pay at a basic campsite for not a lot??

Equally I have never known Len Funnel do something without a reason, and I am sure he has one. But even if I knew I doubt I would tell you and I suggest we wait to see further developments over the longer term!

[BroadAmbition]

even a rise in line with inflation

Oh if only, we have had 'B.A' recommissioned ten years this month.  Over the past ten years, EVERY SINGLE years toll has risen way above the annual inflation rate.  In 07 'B.A's toll was £275, it now sits at £514.  I would bet the next increase will take us over the £550 mark meaning it will have doubled in 11 years.  I wish my income / pension went up at the same rates

Griff