Interim Accident Report

[andyg]

My comments were in regard to the incident at St olaves and not Yarmouth. I stand by them, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out the potential hazards when approaching a bridge in such a high boat. It happens way to often for it to be a mishap. Clearly as boats get bigger and are equipped with more  gadgets ( bow and stern thruster etc ) the handover process needs a massive re think for these types of boats. I'm on dazzling light in a few weeks time and il be interested to see how the handover goes. I've absolutely no idea how much a commodore costs to build but I guessing 250k minimum. Surely its in the interest of the owners to do all they can to protect their investments. Or has the non refundable damage wavier made everyone complacent. Just my thoughts.

[Coryton]

On 07/09/2021 at 09:37, ChrisB said:

I have not been for a number of years, but on the Shannon Erne waterways a 45 minute video was mandatory before you got anywhere near your hire craft. We used to hire from Portumna, Northern most Lough Derg but I can't remember the company I think they may have been bought out.

When we hired on Lough Erne a few years ago I think we were probably sent links to videos we should watch beforehand, but when we turned up at the boat yard we weren't shown a video - we just just went straight onto the boat for the handover.

[grendel]

I still think that after passing under a bridge fine once, some new inexperienced people might forget to check the clearance next time, after all you go under a bridge in your car, it doesnt suddenly get lower the next time you go through, I found the first few trips on the broads I was too busy concentrating on going in a straight line and didnt always see the speed limit signs, its easily done if you are not thinking about it, a minor lapse in attention, and I bet 90% of the times it happens people get away with it and think, ooh that was a lot closer this time than last.

[Meantime]

All of that is fine except that to get to St Olaves they must have navigated some of the most tidal stretches of The Broads and be well aware that the tide rises and falls. At the very least they will have already navigated three low bridges and a couple of taller ones.

Not wanting to turn this into a hirer V private debate, but I cannot remember the last time a privateers boat got stuck under a bridge, perhaps the helmsman's head striking the bridge  cue another forum member to provide input , but privateers must have as many lapses of concentration and distractions with family and children on board. Perhaps being the owner of the vessel in question focusses the mind more?

[Scotty]

I know when we come for two weeks in Oct and air draft at 8ft6" if I can't use St olaves I'll head to Reedham down the cut onto Oulton broad that way just pay alittle attention to the bridge marker before the split just after breydon but in my eyes being a hirer if in a high air draft boat it's down to planning the tides and getting right for the lower bridges and if it looks low or close just use your eye if possible to the highest part of the boat if in any doubt about possible damage easier and safer to turn around and either wait or find a different route but that's just me 

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

and if it looks low or close just use your eye if possible to the highest part of the boat

All bridges have a height gauge some distance before them. All hire boats should have the clearance needed on a plaque near the helm or in the skippers manual. There should never be a need to eye a bridge up for clearance. Although some hire yards may err on the side of caution when quoting the clearance needed and some of the bridge height gauges might be set to allow a margin of error, never take a chance. Go by the quoted clearance needed and the height gauge and if there is not enough clearance wait even if you think there might just be enough room, because you also might just scrape or just get stuck under the bridge.

[Oddfellow]

5 minutes ago, Meantime said:

All hire boats should have the clearance needed on a plaque near the helm or in the skippers manual. 

It is a requirement of the Hire Boat Operators License that the air draft is clearly marked at all helms. 

[YnysMon]

It took me ages to spot where the one upriver from Somerlayton Bridge is. I'm not sure whether it was just obscured, as it's between moorings, but I searched on several occasions before eventually spotting it. Maybe I was just look in the wrong place!

[Scotty]

1 minute ago, Meantime said:

All bridges have a height gauge some distance before them. All hire boats should have the clearance needed on a plaque near the helm or in the skippers manual. There should never be a need to eye a bridge up for clearance. Although some hire yards may err on the side of caution when quoting the clearance needed and some of the bridge height gauges might be set to allow a margin of error, never take a chance. Go by the quoted clearance needed and the height gauge and if there is not enough clearance wait even if you think there might just be enough room, because you also might just scrape or just get stuck under the bridge.

Oh I know exactly what you mean by this I'd never jeopardise the boat in anyway shape or form I'll always err on the side of safety better being safe than sorry

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

It took me ages to spot where the one upriver from Somerlayton Bridge is. I'm not sure whether it was just obscured, as it's between moorings, but I searched on several occasions before eventually spotting it. Maybe I was just look in the wrong place!

I think you mean the one downriver from the bridge? It was placed at the end of the moorings then a few years back they extended the public moorings, but left the bridge marker in the short gap between the moorings.

[Scotty]

4 minutes ago, Oddfellow said:

It is a requirement of the Hire Boat Operators License that the air draft is clearly marked at all helms. 

I always try and do research on a boat if I've been on it before 

[YnysMon]

2 minutes ago, Meantime said:

I think you mean the one downriver from the bridge? It was placed at the end of the moorings then a few years back they extended the public moorings, but left the bridge marker in the short gap between the moorings.

Sorry, yes I did mean downriver. Doh!

[Coryton]

35 minutes ago, Oddfellow said:

It is a requirement of the Hire Boat Operators License that the air draft is clearly marked at all helms. 

When I hired on the Broads a few years ago the boat had two signs giving the air draft.

Curiously they disagreed with each other.

(And according to the Herbert Woods web site it wouldn't go through Wroxham, but the pilots happily took it through both ways).

On Lough Erne there are very few low bridges to worry about. There was nothing on our boat giving air draft so we assumed we'd be OK but we sighted along the lower ones just to make sure. 

[CeePee1952]

Interestingly on Sovereign Light which we are on at the moment, HW website states 7' 11" airdraft, on the boat and in the skippers manual it states 8'  an inch can make all the difference!

Chris

[annv]

You do have to allow for full/empty tanks,  between full and empty is nearly 2 inches air draft on my boat. John

[Coryton]

3 minutes ago, annv said:

You do have to allow for full/empty tanks,  between full and empty is nearly 2 inches air draft on my boat. John

I'm not sure that explains a company giving different values for the same boat though. Unless they measured it more than once (I'm now wondering how they do actually measure the air draft of a boat...)

[Meantime]

18 minutes ago, annv said:

You do have to allow for full/empty tanks,  between full and empty is nearly 2 inches air draft on my boat. John

On a hire boat you don't need to allow for anything. The clearance quoted at the helm will be the worst case scenario in terms of clearance needed to provide a safe passage under the bridge. Yes full tanks or more passengers might provide even greater clearance, but should never be used as a means of risking a passage at anything less than the quoted clearance on the boat.

 

14 minutes ago, Coryton said:

I'm not sure that explains a company giving different values for the same boat though. Unless they measured it more than once (I'm now wondering how they do actually measure the air draft of a boat...)

As above I would always go by the clearance quoted on the boat you are on. Brochures or websites might give figures for a "class" of boat and mistakes can be made in updating such publications.

When I measured the clearance for my boat I simply used a long piece of wood and a spirit level and placed it on the highest part of the boat and then measured down to the water. I did this with the roof and windscreen up, with the roof down but windscreen up and with the roof and windscreen down. I then added three inches to all those measurements and they are the ones I go by. 

There are bridges I pass under when I should be near to my safe height and I'm often surprised to see 7 or 8 inches of clearance, not all the bridge height gauges are set with the same degree of margin of error. I've yet to see one that has any margin of error in the wrong direction. However if you treat them all as being totally accurate you should always have a safe passage.

[Coryton]

18 minutes ago, Meantime said:

As above I would always go by the clearance quoted on the boat you are on. Brochures or websites might give figures for a "class" of boat and mistakes can be made in updating such publications.

Absolutely. Though as I said above on the boat I hired there were two signs physically on the boat which gave different values.

I wouldn't be surprised if hire companies added a bit to the actual height they quote.

19 minutes ago, Meantime said:

There are bridges I pass under when I should be near to my safe height and I'm often surprised to see 7 or 8 inches of clearance, not all the bridge height gauges are set with the same degree of margin of error. I've yet to see one that has any margin of error in the wrong direction. However if you treat them all as being totally accurate you should always have a safe passage.

Interesting that it would be that large.

[Mouldy]

2 hours ago, CeePee1952 said:

 . . . . . . . . . . . . an inch can make all the difference!

Chris

Ooh err, Mrs!!  😉

[Meantime]

Interesting interview with Greg Munford on ITV Anglia. Ironic though that near the start there is a clip with two people standing on the front of the boat near the toe rail with no life jackets on whilst underway.

ITV Anglia 

 

[YnysMon]

18 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Interesting interview with Greg Munford on ITV Anglia. Ironic though that near the start there is a clip with two people standing on the front of the boat near the toe rail with no life jackets on whilst underway.

ITV Anglia 

 

and another lot jumping up and down on the top of another boat!

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

and another lot jumping up and down on the top of another boat!

Yes, one could be tempted to say that the reporting team waited a while to find those examples but in reality I don't suppose they would have had to wait more than 5 mins in any of the popular spots to film such behaviour.

[Oddfellow]

50 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

and another lot jumping up and down on the top of another boat!

If you think that's bad show, two or three years ago, there was a huge picture of some young women without lifejackets on the fore roof of a cruiser. This was in Broadcaster. 

[annv]

It is there choice there decision to go against advice, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. John

[marshman]

Bit like wearing face masks - some do ,some don't!