Rescue Service News.

[ChrisB]

[ChrisB]

I think they are in the correct order, but it is pretty self-explanatory.

I always thought that rescue trucks, say for want of better Mountain Rescue could use blue lights and that it was only when exceeding speed limits ie Police, Ambulance, Coast Guard, Fire special training was required.

I am sure there must be loads of trucks with blue lights who should not use them.

[Ray]

What is also hard to believe is that a member of the public complained about them using their blue lights... 

 

[Chelsea14Ian]

And just one person.There is no difference  between  Hemsby  Lifeboat  and the RNLI,using blue light.Infact in my opinion  this ruling suggests that Independent  stations are not as skilled as The RNLI.

[ChrisB]

The legislation needs urgently changing. Many, many years ago I drove an inland rescue ex army equipment 4 tonner. But was told traffic lights, speed limits etc were all to be obeyed. I don't think it had a siren though.

[ChrisB]

Mind you, those old 4WD ex forces  Bedfords would be hard pushed to break any speed limits. By the time you were approaching 30mph you invariablely need to stand on the anchor because very early deployment was needed.

[CambridgeCabby]

Highlights the stupidity in not allowing any flexibility with some rules/regulations .

I remember a couple of years back where a motorcyclist (whose vehicle was accordingly liveried) was transporting donor organs between hospitals where their transportation was very time dependant was prosecuted successfully for exceeding  the speed limit on the A11 , he had received the appropriate specialist driving (riding) training and was travelling in clear conditions with little or no traffic , but the laws the law .

[MauriceMynah]

The problem is that laws are sloppily written these days owing to the writers only having a passing knowledge of the English language.

It's  not "woke" to ask of them if they understand the language, much better to let people die rather than offend the inarticulate.

[Ray]

12 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

The problem is that laws are sloppily written these days owing to the writers only having a passing knowledge of the English language.

It's  not "woke" to ask of them if they understand the language, much better to let people die rather than offend the inarticulate.

and yet here you are not understanding or using the word woke properly!

"What is the Collins Dictionary definition of woke?

1. Woke is the past tense of wake. 2. adjective. Someone who is woke is very aware of social and political unfairness."

[Meantime]

15 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

The problem is that laws are sloppily written these days owing to the writers only having a passing knowledge of the English language.

Except in this case the law is clear. They do not have the right to use Blue lights. I make no judgement on whether that is right or wrong, clearly many feel that the law needs to be changed myself included, but there is no ambiguity, just an ignorance to date of the law.

Not wishing to undermine the sterling work that Hemsby inshore lifeboat do, but I wonder if they have had full Blue light training? What many maybe do not appreciate is that there is a reason why the use of Blue lights is so restricted. People when suddenly faced with Blue lights and sirens around them do the stupidest of things at times, which the Blue light training is all meant to help avoid.

For instance if you are driving along a single carriageway and there are double white lines along the centre and a Blue light comes up behind you what should you do? A lot of people panic and attempt to slow down and pull over to one side, however unless you can pull over completely out of their way, you are doing the wrong thing. The double while lines are there because they are dangerous to cross and this also applies to Blue light vehicles. The best course of action is to keep going as close to the speed limit as possible without breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit. It is no defense to break the law getting out of the way of emergency services.

For their part Blue light services will often turn off the lights in the situation described above until the double white lines end and it is safe for them to overtake, or you to pull over.

Blue light training is much more than learning how to safely drive fast. It is also about understanding the law, the road conditions and when is the best time to use them bearing in mind the traffic situation at the time.

I would fully support the law to be changed to allow other emergency services such as the inshore lifeboat use them, providing the vehicles are only ever driven by people who have done the full Blue light training.

[Chelsea14Ian]

They undertake the same training as the RNLI.( They are allowed  blue lights).

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

They undertake the same training as the RNLI.( They are allowed  blue lights).

Although they are not as recently clarified by the Police! The law might need to be changed, but it is clear.

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 state that only "emergency vehicles" are allowed to have Blue lights on them, irrespective of whether they are used or not.

An "emergency vehicle" is defined as follows in law;

“Emergency vehicle”

A motor vehicle of any of the following descriptions–

(a)

a vehicle used for fire brigade, ambulance or police purposes;

(b)

an ambulance, being a vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) which is constructed or adapted for the purposes of conveying sick, injured or disabled persons and which is used for such purposes;

(c)

a vehicle owned by a body formed primarily for the purposes of fire salvage and used for those or similar purposes;

(d)

a vehicle owned by the Forestry Commission or by a local authority and used from time to time for the purposes of fighting fires;

(e)

a vehicle owned by the Secretary of State for Defence and used–

(i)

for the purposes of the disposal of bombs or explosives,

(ii)

by the Naval Emergency Monitoring Organisation for the purposes of a nuclear accident or an incident involving radioactivity,

(iii)

by the Royal Air Force Mountain Rescue Service for the purposes of rescue operations or any other emergencies, or

(iv)

by the Royal Air Force Armament Support Unit;

(f)

a vehicle primarily used for the purposes of the Blood Transfusion Service provided under the National Health Service Act 1977(4) or under the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978(5);

(g)

a vehicle used by Her Majesty’s Coastguard or Coastguard Auxiliary Service for the purposes of giving aid to persons in danger or vessels indistress on or near the coast;

(h)

a vehicle owned by the British Coal Corporation and used for the purposes of rescue operations at mines;

(i)

a vehicle owned by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution and used for the purposes of launching lifeboats; and

(j)

a vehicle primarily used for the purposes of conveying any human tissue for transplanting or similar purposes.

 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

From what I`ve read this has been the situation for over five years so it is nothing new. Have Hemsby now thrown the toys out of the pram.

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

From what I`ve read this has been the situation for over five years so it is nothing new. Have Hemsby now thrown the toys out of the pram.

My guess would be its a situation that the Police have turned a blind eye to. Now that somebody has complained the law is the law. Will be interesting to see if the Blue lights get removed. No point having them if you cannot use them, but it also makes the vehicle illegal technically.

[marshman]

I would suggest that in reality, the blue lights make little or no difference to the effectiveness of the call out - often it is well after the actual  emergency that they arrive and speed is not necessarily "of the essence". Whilst, as Ian says, the crews may well be well trained, they are not trained blue light drivers, nor should they be given that authority.

[Gracie]

I know the law is the law and you can very much blind me with science (I think that's how the saying goes) and my goodness it goes over my head like a ruddy jet, how some one can complain about sirens and blue lights when they were very probably on their way to save some ones life, that's what beggars belief.

I really don't like this expression very much and usually only use it in jest but there really are some people who need to get a life, a life they should hold dear and hopefully not find themselves in a boat accident or drowning where these brilliant men and women will risk theirs to save it x

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, Gracie said:

I know the law is the law and you can very much blind me with science (I think that's how the saying goes) and my goodness it goes over my head like a ruddy jet, how some one can complain about sirens and blue lights when they were very probably on their way to save some ones life, that's what beggars belief.

I really don't like this expression very much and usually only use it in jest but there really are some people who need to get a life, a life they should hold dear and hopefully not find themselves in a boat accident or drowning where these brilliant men and women will risk theirs to save it x

Gracie, I understand fully the sentiment, but you would expect them to hold a full driving license and insurance to drive the vehicle, so why wouldn't you expect them to hold a Blue light qualification and the authority legally to use them?

[Meantime]

29 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

From what I`ve read this has been the situation for over five years so it is nothing new. Have Hemsby now thrown the toys out of the pram.

I guess a better question might be why the RNLI doesn't better support The Broads. Anyone remember the South Broads lifeboat station at Oulton Broad. It was staffed entirely by volunteers and was closed in 2011 after the RNLI decided to relocate the stations assets to Great Yarmouth and Gorleston.

[Gracie]

There you go again blinding me  with cold hard facts  

They should be given qualifications and any training that may require and be done with it. If I ever find myself in a situation where I am drowning I will be sure to ask if they have the right qualifications to get to where I am before saving me 

I'm sorry, I may be a simple person and it's just my simple way of seeing things x

[Chelsea14Ian]

30 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

From what I`ve read this has been the situation for over five years so it is nothing new. Have Hemsby now thrown the toys out of the pram.

If you think there throwing toys out of the pram.Your welcome to tell them up in Hemsby. They and for that matter me,can't see and difference between the RNLI and Independent  Lifeboats. Of which there are 150 across the country. Where often for one reason or another the RNLI have left an location. Such as Caister,Hemsby  and Sea Palling. 

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, Gracie said:

There you go again blinding me  with cold hard facts  

They should be given qualifications and any training that may require and be done with it. If I ever find myself in a situation where I am drowning I will be sure to ask if they have the right qualifications to get to where I am before saving me 

I'm sorry, I may be a simple person and it's just my simple way of seeing things x

I guess the problem is where do you draw the line? Given how dumb our smart motorways are many of the call outs by the RAC and the AA are potential lifesaving events, yet they are not allowed Blue lights.

[Chelsea14Ian]

5 minutes ago, Meantime said:

I guess a better question might be why the RNLI doesn't better support The Broads. Anyone remember the South Broads lifeboat station at Oulton Broad. It was staffed entirely by volunteers and was closed in 2011 after the RNLI decided to relocate the stations assets to Great Yarmouth and Gorleston.

Which as I've  said many times,leaving Hemsby  to cover all of the broads. If I use myself as an example. Three nines ,the coastguard  paged Hemsby,and a Ambulance .Hemsby  got to me first.Think the Ambulance  arrived about 15 minutes  later.

[Meantime]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Hemsby lifeboat who do an excellent job, if it was a full RNLI service, then there wouldn't be an issue. The law needs to be changed, and the crews need a full Blue light driving qualification.

The use of Blue lights whilst saving lives does also lead to the occasional accident on the way to a shout, occasionally with the loss of a life. It is a delicate balancing act which is why their use is tightly regulated.

There was an interesting report that found that in 90% of fire engine Blue light crashes in the Nottinghamshire area, the fire engine driver was at fault. Blue light driver training and correct usage should not be underestimated.

[ChrisB]

There seems to be ambiguity. Most volunteer Mountain Rescue have blue lights.

But I notice a large proportion of their ATVs also sport the Ambulance logo.

[MargeandParge]

If we had our say there would be a police escort motor cycle or car paged at the same time to escort this brave and wonderful crew until matters are resolved. 

Every life is worth saving and volunteers with their reputation should not be shunned. 

Kindest Regards and The very best wishes to All at Hemsby Life Boat.

Marge and Parge donation on its way very soon