Rescue Service News.

[Meantime]

9 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

There seems to be ambiguity. Most volunteer Mountain Rescue have blue lights.

But I notice a large proportion of their ATVs also sport the Ambulance logo.

I don't think it's that ambiguous, if they are adapted to convey the rescued or injured person, at least to the nearest point that a normal ambulance or paramedic can then attend.

(b)

an ambulance, being a vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) which is constructed or adapted for the purposes of conveying sick, injured or disabled persons and which is used for such purposes;

[Andrewcook]

Hi all as to look at this topic about using Blue Emergency Light, particularly for Hemsby Life Boats they should still have them that's in my view. What about Rangers having them on their Launches is that allowed on the Broads? 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Good point !

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, Andrewcook said:

What about Rangers having them on their Launches is that allowed on the Broads? 

They have them on their launches and again this is allowed by the byelaws, which also prohibit the public from having blue lights on their own boats. The BA do not have them on their road vehicles.

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Meantime said:

Except in this case the 

Not wishing to undermine the sterling work that Hemsby inshore lifeboat do, but I wonder if they have had full Blue light training? What many maybe do not appreciate is that there is a reason why the use of Blue lights is so restricted. People when suddenly faced with Blue lights and sirens around them do the stupidest of things at times, which the Blue light training is all meant to help avoid.

For instance if you are driving along a single carriageway and there are double white lines along the centre and a Blue light comes up behind you what should you do? A lot of people panic and attempt to slow down and pull over to one side, however unless you can pull over completely out of their way, you are doing the wrong thing. The double while lines are there because they are dangerous to cross and this also applies to Blue light vehicles. The best course of action is to keep going as close to the speed limit as possible without breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit. It is no defense to break the law getting out of the way of emergency services.

For their part Blue light services will often turn off the lights in the situation described above until the double white lines end and it is safe for them to overtake, or you to pull over.

Blue light training is much more than learning how to safely drive fast. It is also about understanding the law, the road conditions and when is the best time to use them bearing in mind the traffic situation at the time.

I would fully support the law to be changed to allow other emergency services such as the inshore lifeboat use them, providing the vehicles are only ever driven by people who have done the full Blue light training.

I don’t believe RNLI (or indeed anybody beyond Police, Fire & Ambulance) actually need to have training to use blue lights they don’t have a speeding exemption.

[marshman]

So in reality, perhaps there is no real need for them to have them - do they really make a significant difference in the speed of attending and indeed the sort of situations they attend are only occasionally a matter of life or death. Don't get me wrong, they do have a very worthwhile purpose in search and rescue but speed in itself, probably, rarely makes a difference. Or are we saying that their blue light response would make a significant difference between life and death?

[Meantime]

48 minutes ago, marshman said:

So in reality, perhaps there is no real need for them to have them - do they really make a significant difference in the speed of attending and indeed the sort of situations they attend are only occasionally a matter of life or death. Don't get me wrong, they do have a very worthwhile purpose in search and rescue but speed in itself, probably, rarely makes a difference. Or are we saying that their blue light response would make a significant difference between life and death?

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I really don't want to be seen as the bad guy here, but as a driver I know I tense up when I see Blue lights or hear sirens. I get ready to brake sharply to the side of the road or sometimes am not sure on the best course of action. Let's be honest we all get nervous when Blue light vehicles are around us. They should rightly only be used in the rare real life threatening situations. We need to know that when you see a Blue light you need to get out of the way as soon as it is safe to do so. Despite the best adverting efforts of the breakdown services there are only three real emergency services in this country and they are publicly accountable services trained to the very highest degree.

 

 

[Gracie]

Yep, I know that feeling of dread when you hear the blues and twos approaching and when the Officer beckons for you to pull over before asking to see your drivers licence then points out you were doing 40 in a 30 zone. Not that it's ever happened to me of course  x

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I don’t believe RNLI (or indeed anybody beyond Police, Fire & Ambulance) actually need to have training to use blue lights they don’t have a speeding exemption.

No emergency service is exempt from the law. I believe the phrase is they are allowed to drive in a manner that is not consistent with the law for instance when it comes to speed limits and red lights, but that doesn't mean they are not liable if doing so causes an accident.

I don't know the current situation, but it used to be the case that Police pursuit officers would be taken off pursuit driving if they had an accident, whereas Fire and Ambulance drivers effectively drive on their own license and could rack up points or worse be banned if blamed for a Blue light incident.

[Meantime]

9 minutes ago, Gracie said:

Yep, I know that feeling of dread when you hear the blues and twos approaching and when the Officer beckons for you to pull over before asking to see your drivers licence then points out you were doing 40 in a 30 zone. Not that it's ever happened to me of course  x

Gracie, I'm beginning to see you in a new light, you naughty girl!  

[Matt]

9 minutes ago, Meantime said:

No emergency service is exempt from the law. I believe the phrase is they are allowed to drive in a manner that is not consistent with the law for instance when it comes to speed limits and red lights, but that doesn't mean they are not liable if doing so causes an accident.

I don't know the current situation, but it used to be the case that Police pursuit officers would be taken off pursuit driving if they had an accident, whereas Fire and Ambulance drivers effectively drive on their own license and could rack up points or worse be banned if blamed for a Blue light incident.

I didn’t say anybody was exempt from the law…..

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

I didn’t say anybody was exempt from the law…..

I know, I was agreeing with you.

[MargeandParge]

It isn't the speed of their vehicle but the fact that queuing traffic will move over and allow them to avoid jams that sort of thing is what can make a huge difference. Top end speed with their boat in tow is hardly realistic. 

Regards Marge and Parge 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Very true with blue  lights it makes it easier  to move through  traffic.And as pointed  out towing a Lifeboat ,there hardly not going at 90mph.

[mikeyboy1966]

1 hour ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Very true with blue  lights it makes it easier  to move through  traffic.And as pointed  out towing a Lifeboat ,there hardly not going at 90mph.

Even so,

the law is, the law..

forcing your way though traffic with sirens and blue lights is not legal for anybody who just chooses to fit them,

[CambridgeCabby]

I think the salient point here is that the RNLI are permitted to display/use blue lights whilst transporting the lifeboat to attend a shout whilst such institutions such as Hemsby are not , I am presuming that the driver under blue light has received the appropriate training as I believe all authorised “Blue light” drivers are and if this is indeed the case it is wrong that a potentially life saving operation is impeded by what seems to me to be unnecessary  red tape (in this specific case)

[Meantime]

Ever since this story broke, I've had a nagging question at the back of my mind, and try as I might, it just won't go away!

If you are on a boat on The Broads, in need of assistance and The Hemsby lifeboat is not able to get there as fast as it possibly can, which would you rather happen?

A) It doesn't attend at all

B) It gets there as fast as is legally possible without Blue lights?

Arguably the law needs to be updated, but in the meantime I would have hoped it would have been B)

One last point, what's the insurance situation if a vehicle not legally entitled to use Blue lights is involved in, or causes an accident. The Police also have a tough job at times!

[MargeandParge]

It just needs sorting somehow because if anybody is in trouble every second counts. I would think that shock,cold and anxiety are problems the team face and the quicker they are dealt with the better. 

If we are in trouble sometimes knowing someone is there helping, eases the situation 

An escort for them is the only way out at the moment. 

Regards Marge and Parge 

[ChrisB]

The Atlantic 85 of RNLI Yarmouth and Gorleston is capable of 35knots, about 40mph so is the option for Breydon and lower Bure, Yare and Waverney but it is the upper reaches where Hemsby's smaller craft excels.

[Chelsea14Ian]

8 hours ago, mikeyboy1966 said:

Even so,

the law is, the law..

forcing your way though traffic with sirens and blue lights is not legal for anybody who just chooses to fit them,

In the case of Hemsby  Lifeboat,they didn't  just fit blue lights because  they thought  its a good idea.What is needed is the law to be amended to cover Independent stations.Remember Hemsby  cover all of the broads. The RNLI attend close to Yarmouth. It's a very large area. Until this one person who complained  about blue lights ,everything  worked well.Without any problems. I ask members to write to there MP.As a boater hirer or owner.Its in your best interests  to insure there's cover on the broads. 

[marshman]

Ian - whilst I understand your connection with Hemsby, I think we have already established, or at least in my eyes, that blue lights are not really necessary as the sort of instances they attend are not really time critical to the nearest few minutes.

I am sure they keep a note of these things but I wonder what the average time is between the pagers going off and them getting to the actual scene on the Broads - probably longer than many might imagine. Thats NOT a criticism at all but probably one reason why the RNLI withdrew their support for a Broads Boat?

None of this is meant to to be a criticism of the sterling work they do in conjunction with the other emergency services, including the Coastguard ( who have blue lights if I remember )

[floydraser]

Do they really need blue lights?

Well in the article at the start of this thread the coxwain with 20 years of experience in the job reckons they do which is why he's asking the department of transport to change things. Interesting points of view raised here but I'll go with his opinion. 

[Meantime]

8 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Do they really need blue lights?

Its a good question and got me thinking. Doctors often have Green lights I believe. Other vehicles often have Orange lights to warn of a hazard and will use those lights to filter through traffic on their way to recover or clear a crashed vehicle.

As already pointed out Hemsby lifeboat vehicles wouldn't be moving fast if they are towing a life boat, but would like to make their presence known and for traffic to move out the way for them.

Wouldn't Orange flashing lights achieve that? If I was stuck in a traffic jam and saw a vehicle with Orange flashing lights trying to get through the traffic, it would attract my attention. If I then saw it had reflective markings and lifeboat on the side I'd be pulling to one side if it was safe to do so.

[floydraser]

1 minute ago, Meantime said:

 

Wouldn't Orange flashing lights achieve that? If I was stuck in a traffic jam and saw a vehicle with Orange flashing lights trying to get through the traffic, it would attract my attention. If I then saw it had reflective markings and lifeboat on the side I'd be pulling to one side if it was safe to do so.

Orange lights would be too much like a wide load when seen in mirrors, IMO. You would need the siren too, to attract the attention of Audi and BMW drivers, who would THEN look in their mirrors. 

[MargeandParge]

With all the cries of anger over ambulance response time and I know they are for many different reasons, surely something can be done for this essential service. 

Regards Marge and Parge