Rescue Service News.

[FairTmiddlin]

3 hours ago, floydraser said:

Do they really need blue lights?

Well in the article at the start of this thread the coxwain with 20 years of experience in the job reckons they do which is why he's asking the department of transport to change things. Interesting points of view raised here but I'll go with his opinion. 

The RNLI is a limited company registered at companies house and a mostly volunteer service, just as is Hemsby Lifeboat station. Why then is their status any different? Surely just amending the law to any rescue service with appropriate training.

[Bikertov]

4 hours ago, floydraser said:

Orange lights would be too much like a wide load when seen in mirrors, IMO. You would need the siren too, to attract the attention of Audi and BMW drivers, who would THEN look in their mirrors. 

Hey - I drive an Audi and know how to use my mirrors 

When I see and/or hear blues and twos, I do everything I can in a safe manner to allow them speedy and easy passage. This would include pulling over at a suitable place, and giving as much room as possible for the driver to decide their best course of action to get past and make progress. 

[Gracie]

Hey, I know how to use my mirrors too you know. The rear view mirror is just great for adjusting your hair and makeup  x

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Bikertov said:

Hey - I drive an Audi and know how to use my mirrors 

When I see and/or hear blues and twos, I do everything I can in a safe manner to allow them speedy and easy passage. This would include pulling over at a suitable place, and giving as much room as possible for the driver to decide their best course of action to get past and make progress. 

And then the car behind you pulls out and goes around you 😂 it happens all the time!

[grendel]

a thought strikes me, the boat is an ambulance when it is rescuing people and getting them to safety, it is possibly conveying injured people, so, surely if an ambulance is allowed blue lights, instead of displaying blue lights on the tow vehicle, use them on the boat, then all should be fine? like the off road rescue vehicles?

[Meantime]

Excuse the pun, but I think that boat has sailed. Since the tip off to the Police, they have investigated and made their decision! I would think it now needs a change in the law to allow them to comply.

For what it's worth I actually have mixed feelings about the individual who made the tip off. A status quo had existed for 20 years, so why rock the boat? On the other hand, just imagine nothing had changed and at some point in the future their was an accident involving one of the vehicles whilst responding to a shout and using Blue lights! Would have been a very interesting insurance claim, and no doubt the Police would have had to investigate and uphold the law to the possible detriment of the crew member. 

No real winners here as far as I can see, just a situation that somehow needs to be resolved.

[Velo500]

On 05/05/2023 at 23:16, Meantime said:

Ever since this story broke, I've had a nagging question at the back of my mind, and try as I might, it just won't go away!

If you are on a boat on The Broads, in need of assistance and The Hemsby lifeboat is not able to get there as fast as it possibly can, which would you rather happen?

A) It doesn't attend at all

B) It gets there as fast as is legally possible without Blue lights?

Arguably the law needs to be updated, but in the meantime I would have hoped it would have been B)

One last point, what's the insurance situation if a vehicle not legally entitled to use Blue lights is involved in, or causes an accident. The Police also have a tough job at times!

One of my sons who is a Paramedic told me when on Blue lights must be responding to an emergency only, otherwise insurance is invalid.

[Vaughan]

The EDP reports this morning that the Hemsby rescue boat was delayed in heavy traffic when attending an incident at Acle Bridge yesterday without the use of blue lights.

At least it seems they have decided to continue to attend incidents, rather than withdrawing their service, which they had suggested a few days ago.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Thankfully,fire and ambulance were there first.It shows that blue lights  are required  in some circumstances. On this call out a person was in the water between two boats.Thankfully it ended well.

[Graham47]

On 07/05/2023 at 21:45, grendel said:

a thought strikes me, the boat is an ambulance when it is rescuing people and getting them to safety, it is possibly conveying injured people, so, surely if an ambulance is allowed blue lights, instead of displaying blue lights on the tow vehicle, use them on the boat, then all should be fine? like the off road rescue vehicles?

As a matter of interest, what is their status once on the water and proceeding to or from an incident. Are they legally permitted to use their blue lights and exceed the speed limits? 
 

[Gracie]

8 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

As a matter of interest, what is their status once on the water and proceeding to or from an incident. Are they legally permitted to use their blue lights and exceed the speed limits? 
 

Good question Graham, blue lights may be the difference between life and death in some cases and how anyone can complain is beyond my comprehension x

(using big words today )

[Chelsea14Ian]

Please don't  quote  me I will ask,but I think they and the other  150 independent Lifeboat  stations have the same status as the RNLI.As I've said many times the law needs to be amended.Remember this is thanks to one person complaining.

[MauriceMynah]

As we now embark on a whole new minefield.

Is this an emergency?

It is sometimes difficult to work out if a situation is an emergency or not, and that applies to both the one making the call as well as the call taker.

It's not as straight forwards as "is there danger to life"  as many could disagree on that issue alone (see stand up paddleboard thread as an example).

When my fridge gave up supplying ice for my G&Ts, even I managed to resist dialing 999. 

No, we can all give examples of emergencies and non emergencies, but,  in the heat of the moment, can we be reasonably sure that when we call 999, it really warrants the action, or worse,  if we didn't and it did.

 

[MauriceMynah]

10 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Please don't  quote  me I will ask,but I think they and the other  150 independent Lifeboat  stations have the same status as the RNLI.As I've said many times the law needs to be amended.Remember this is thanks to one person complaining.

I thought that the non RNLI stations did NOT have the same status, and that that was the problem.

( sorry to quote you given that you asked me not to.)

[Chelsea14Ian]

On the river or sea.Three nines connects to the coastguard,they decide  who to call. Independent  stations are dotted  around  the UK.Filling gaps left by the RNLI.Without them leaving large areas without  cover.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Thankfully,fire and ambulance were there first.

Would expect this to be the case more often than not.

[Vaughan]

7 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Would expect this to be the case more often than not.

But would they arrive, in a motor ambulance, equipped to deal with an emergency which may have happened a mile or two from the nearest road access?  In which case they would be available to transport the ambulance paramedics to the scene of the accident.  Something I have done more than once in a boatyard towboat, because it was there and readily available.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

5 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

But would they arrive, in a motor ambulance, equipped to deal with an emergency which may have happened a mile or two from the nearest road access?  In which case they would be available to transport the ambulance paramedics to the scene of the accident.  Something I have done more than once in a boatyard towboat, because it was there and readily available.

Alas you have missed my point which was simply which service would you expect to arrive first.

[Vaughan]

13 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Alas you have missed my point which was simply which service would you expect to arrive first.

Having been a special constable in Ludham for 7 years and thus been advised by phone of any incident reported in the area and having set off to deal with it in whatever vessel I had available : either the boatyard launch or one of my hire boats, I think it may be you who is missing the point.

Accidents can happen miles from anywhere on the Broads.  In "my day" the boatyards used to deal with it as often as the River Commissioners' launches.

Nowadays we can no longer rely on the boatyards - nor the "village policeman" - so a volunteer service such as Hemsby has taken over a vital - but not always obvious - role in getting to the scene where others cannot penetrate.

[Chelsea14Ian]

The coastguard decide who  to call.Often using fire,Police Ambulance,Air Ambulance ,RNLI and Hemsby Lifeboat. 

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

When my fridge gave up supplying ice for my G&Ts, even I managed to resist dialing 999.

If you had VHF radio that would be a "Pan Alco" call, similar to a "Pan Pan" but less urgent as you still had the gin, run out of the gin and it would be a full blown "Mayday".

The main point is someone has pointed out the legality of the blue light usage and it's been shown to not be allowed in law unless one of the named services, the law could do with changing but what criteria do you set to allow the use by other independent services that would still stop any idiot calling themselves a rescue service and strapping blue lights on the vehicle to get past traffic.

I doubt the police would actually stop an independent lifeboat on blue lights but as pointed out earlier in the thread if something goes wrong the driver and any accomplices are in deep do do.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Vaughan, you are omitting the times where rescue boats have been stood down!

[Chelsea14Ian]

So Too are Ambulance,Air Ambulance and Fire service. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

27 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

So Too are Ambulance,Air Ambulance and Fire service. 

I can see how the second and third might be stood down but surprised at the first Ian unless paramedics are counted separately.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Vaughan, you are omitting the times where rescue boats have been stood down!

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.