Life Jackets

[SueH]

I have been thinking recently, as you do, and a great brain strain it has been!

 

Anyway - we have life-jackets that, in theory, are supposed to 'go off' when you hit the water.  The trouble is I have no idea if they do or do not work, and don't want to find out if, heaven forbid, I end up in a broad or the River Yare.  Especially as not a particularly strong swimmer.

 

I know that it is difficult to extract yourself from water when you fall in, as can be evidenced by the fit young man who drowned when he fell into the river in Bath recently.

 

Does anyone have any experience as to whether this type of jacket actually works? 

 

Would it be worth my while doing a practical test, say in the local pool.  Granted this would only test the jacket, it would not be an accurate simulation of falling into 12 feet of water fully clothed, and of course I would have to replace the reasonably new 'arming mechanism'.

 

Food for thought on a Sunny, albeit windy morning somewhere 'South of the M4'.

 

SueH

[MauriceMynah]

Hi Sue,

It would be the "arming" side of the issue that you would be testing. Rather like a safety match, these things cannot be tested. The bits that inflate your LJ are single use only.

All you can do is to ensure that you replace the inflation devices as per the instructions, which if I recall correctly is once every two or three years. I intend to stretch the point and as long as I can see no damage or corrosion, I shall replace when my BSS expires. 

[Hockham Admiral]

Not a problem, Sue. Most use a compressed salt pellet or ring to hold off the arming lever. You can, hopefully, get a replacement from where you bought your jacket.They're not difficult to repack when washed out in clean water and dried. Have a look at yours first to get an idea of how they are packed. Mine uses velcro.

 

One thing... when mine went off when I fell in the water it inflated so huge that I was like a Michelin Man and couldn't get at (nor have a clue where) the relief vent was to let some air out. Fortunately two strong young men were available!

 

 

[littlesprite]

JTF is right in saying the "arming" device can't be tested as they're single use, however' there should be a manual inflation tube to test the jacket inflates and has no leaks.

[mbird]

Self inflating life jackets do indeed work well. However, the trigger mechanisms have a limited life span and will have an expiration date stamped on them.

 

If you unvelcro the bottom of your lifejacket where the CO2 cylinder is, you will see a black cylinder, normally with a green end. This should have a date on it, which needs to be checked. If it is out of date, it needs replacing before you use it again, and replacements can be bought quite cheaply these days as you no longer have to buy the CO2 cylinder at the same time.

 

Check the CO2 cylinder for any corrosion, and if you see any replace it too. If there is no sign of corrosion on the CO2 cylinder then you don't need to replace it, as unlike the triggers, the cylinders do not have a use by date on them.

 

If your trigger is out of date, do what I did and throw the LJ in a bath of water to see what happens. It's worth the cost of a new CO2 cylinder for educational purposes as they do go off quite quick!

[ExMemberBobdog]

Agree with all the above; the trigger should be replaced before the due date.  They are remarkably sensitive - I brought mine home for the winter and stored them in the garage in a plastic box with some other gear from the boat that I had failed to notice was damp.  This caused some condensation in the box, and subsequently one of the life jackets inflated.

[SueH]

I keep the jackets indoors in the bags they came in, when we are not in Norfolk, so that should be ok.

 

Will have to check the date on them.  But think they are only a couple of years old.

 

Very pleased my idea of a dunk in the local pool wearing mine is not needed.  Just dropping it in the bath is a far nicer option.

 

SueH

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Sue,

 

There was a notice early last year that there was an issue with some triggers & valves with a certain date codes and to check the dates.

 

I think the CO2 cartridges (re arming kits) are around £20.00.

 

 

Regards

Alan

[Mowjo]

Sue! just get the other half to wear it then push him in! you'll see if it works then,,

 

Frank,,,

[SueH]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Good thought, but if I do who will be around to keep me in the manner to which I have become accustomed?

 

SueH

[MauriceMynah]

How badly are you accustomed to?

[Mowjo]

Sue! just make sure you have him well insured first, you could end up with better than your accustomed to,

[C.Ricko]

We held off giving auto inflates to our customers as we did not have a simple way of checking the canister and firing mech on every jacket on every turn round.

 

If we charged for improper use we would have people repack the jacket and hand it back for the next customer in a dangerous state.

 

I am not sure if other yards have a procedure but we would not operate them without a fail safe.

some operators use a 'pull to inflate' I would not be prepared to issue these, as if unconscious when entering the water the jacket would be useless.

 

We have had jackets made with a visual display which shows up red if the canister has been fired or is not screwed in properly,

it also has a second indicator which shows up if the mechanism has been fired. the indicators cannot be clipped back on as in the case

of the previous versions.

 

we have had the jackets made with a window in the outer cover so you can see at a glance the status of the jacket.

 

[mbird]

Our jackets are Adec ones and have a clear window for just that purpose Clive.

[C.Ricko]

Do they have the double indicator Mark?

I think it is a great idea.

[Siddy]

Clive have you swapped out the orange jackets? I did get our own auto jackets and I sign the handover form to remove any claim/blame with not taking yours.

Plus side is we use them more now.

As to use on hire fleet as you say it's inspecting them after use this could be a few 100 within hrs on a busy turn round day, And you can't say a kid hasn't pulled the rip cord and parents have wrapped it back up in hope of getting away with it.

[C.Ricko]

They should be with us in the next couple of weeks.. you are right about the orange ones, they don't get worn because of what they look like, they also get dirty easily and it is hard to store them..

We  were a little slower to switch than the other yards but I am happy with the product now where previously I was not.

We currently have quite a few orange adult jackets if any one wants one...

The kids will still need the foam versions..

[marshman]

This is a difficult problem - both for the yards and the hirers!!! I understand Clives problem and I have also heard of places with the auto inflates not being checked properly and when checked, having a high failure rate.

 

Equally , I am not sure I would wish to rely on a visual check - is this foolproof? Rather I think I would prefer to rely on a regular visual check but also a less regular manual check?

 

Worst of all however is a life jacket not worn and for every one of those there is a potential death and Clive those orange ones are next to useless you have to admit!!! Most are just so ill fitting, that just raising your arms above your head will allow them to be easily lifted off!!! They do however make good seats!!!

 

Clive - I do think that an auto inflate with only a 75% discharge rate is pretty low and a visual check weekly will considerably improve this - a manual cylinder check monthly will improve this further but at the end of the day you will not legislate against a hirer trying to "beat" the system and you will never ensure a 100% guarantee that once they have left the yard they will work. You will however I am sure have a reasonable and resonsible checking system and I believe  that is all anyone could ever ask.

 

But auto inflates on your fleet is a huge step and an important safety step forward - you are to be congratulated on taking it.

 

[marshman]

Oh I meant to add that as far as the kids are concerned, the tighter fitting vests are much much better than the jacket - they are not at all cumbersome like the jacket and whilst they may not turn an unconscious child over, they are very efficient and the action of actually turning over is probably not really required. (well that my view for what its worth!!!! )

[Matt]

I took the plunge (see what i did there?) and bought the kids self inflating ones last year. They are adjustable between 3yrs and 12 years so should last a while. They wear them no problem where as the foam ones were moaned about. You can never be 100% sure but they are the last resort-the braces to go with the belt. The best approach is to make sure that they don't fall in in the first place. So far so good but one day it will happen to one of us.

[Guest]

Oh I meant to add that as far as the kids are concerned, the tighter fitting vests are much much better than the jacket - they are not at all cumbersome like the jacket and whilst they may not turn an unconscious child over, they are very efficient and the action of actually turning over is probably not really required. (well that my view for what its worth!!!! )

 

 

Funny thing about buoyancy aids versus lifejackets, they're used far more widely by people who are much more likely to end up in the water !

 

Dinghy sailors and canoeists rarely use self inflating lifejackets, due partly to the likelihood of more re-arming, rather than just emergencies.

 

They've really come on in the past few years, much more comfortable and with less of a "Mr Blobby "  appearance, like the big orange hire ones.

 

I have a number of auto lifejackets and buoyancy aids, and in sheltered waters I feel safer in the buoyancy aids because they're completely failsafe, unlike auto inflation lifejackets that would actually become very well fastened diver's weights if they don't inflate at the instant they're needed !

[marshman]

Yes I agree Strow - they are not bulky at all and in fact have a reassuring feel - the fact that they have a strap around the body makes them so much more comfortable than an orange buoyancy aid and a very acceptable alternative to an auto inflate.

 

Dont get me wrong - out at sea its a different issue but in the Broads they are perfectly acceptable for children and because they fit snugly are perfectly suited for a child who by their very nature, tend to be more active and jumping around a bit!!!!

[Guest]

..... so much more comfortable than an orange buoyancy aid and a very acceptable alternative to an auto inflate.....

 

Yes indeed. 

 

Strange that almost every private boater on the Broads seems to go for the auto inflation lifejackets.

 

Although buoyancy aids are only around 50 to 75 newtons of lift, compared to the 150 newtons of most self-inflation jackets. it does seem an ample amount of buoyancy on inland waters.

 

A few years ago I was swimming off the beach in the Solent and tried swimming in some of my buoyancy aids.  Even in 1ft  waves, it was impossible to dive under the surface or even get your head under water.  

 

It's true they won't put an unconscious person on the back, but then again they are apparently much easier to swim in, compared to lifejackets.

 

In the average Broads MOB scenario, that could well be safer, or at least more convenient.

[Mowjo]

The funny thing is I've always been wary of the self inflating type, I know they work, I know a lot of research and testing go into them and 99% of the time they work, the trouble is my mind goes into "What if Mode" and that's what if it doesn't work? how will you know until you actually need it? yes you can have all the failsafe gadgets and all the whiz bang bits, but in the end nothing is infallible when it depends on different components to make it work, I know the buoyancy aids are still quite bulky in comparison but I'd certainly feel safer using one, I think part of the problem with the B/A's is they don't always look cool and they can be bit restrictive, but I must admit they have come a long way since those big orange things and there are some pretty nice ones out there, it may just be me but I'd sooner not look cool than end up in the cooler, the problem is getting people to wear either type, I know when we go out for a weekend, I can probably count on both hands the amount of people I see wearing them, and see lots of people putting their or others lives at risk, one of the classics is letting children run around on the roof or decks with no lifejackets, I don't know the answer apart from trying to educate people to the dangers, I have a rule on my boat that non swimmers are not allowed on the decks at all, they are not allowed to get on or off the boat unless I'm there, and when moored up if the don't have a lifejacket the stay well away from the bank, my boat! my rules! if they ignore them the won't come on my boat again,,,,,

 

Frank,,,

[Guest]

The funny thing is I've always been wary of the self inflating type, I know they work, I know a lot of research and testing go into them and 99% of the time they work, the trouble is my mind goes into "What if Mode" and that's what if it doesn't work? how will you know until you actually need it? yes you can have all the failsafe gadgets and all the whiz bang bits, but in the end nothing is infallible when it depends on different components to make it work,.......

 

 

Exactly how I feel about them Frank. 

 

The self inflaters seem to now be de rigueur for private boaters with everyone strapping them on without a second thought.

 

As you say, if a fault develops in any one of the "different components to make it work", it won't fire up and inflate, and instead becomes a 3kg diving weight very firmly attached to your body.

 

Having said that, I've never heard of anyone drowning through wearing one that didn't inflate, but the possibility, however remote, is still at the back of my mind.

 

By comparison, a cheap, modern, unobtrusive buoyancy aid requires no servicing, and cannot fail to give you considerable buoyancy in the water (as long as you're wearing it !)