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Laurabassam86

Sundog formally known as Alice

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Where is Marshman when you want him, he'd know?

My understanding is that Albion had her back strengthened with the fitting of a steel box section bolted over her timber keel a few years ago. I might well be wrong, won't be the first time, but I also thought that a permanent non slipping extension to the steel box section both reinforced it and helped Albion's sailing qualities.

 

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Yes boys nearly right and PW is almost exactly!

The new keel is a steel I beam and is not designed to slip - good idea but the sheer weight would make that a problem! The whole thing would "slip" into the Broadland mud forever! Not exactly true to the original design but yes, she now sails better than she did for many years.

And Vaughan is right too about her sailing abilities coming to the fore " down south" which is why we arrange for her to have a full charter programme every year on the Southern Rivers. This year we are down there between the 29th June to the 13th July with Open Days at Oulton (2nd July) Norwich (7th July) and Beccles (10th July ) but she has to earn her keep, or she would not be sailing!! Logistically that has to be on the Northern Rivers from our Base at Ludham but find us some land down south and things could change....!!

Never easy but we try our best to sail her annually where she is most suited to exhibit her sailing abilities,,  but equally we must operate her in the area where it is best suited to earn revenue - as was said by Vaughan. Everything in life is a compromise and we try our best!

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When this thread was originally started, i read a couple of posts and did`nt think it was very interresting.  Now however, i`ve learned a lot more about the "Norfolk" and `Suffolk" Wherries, and am amazed at the history that many forumites know.  I`m sure i`m not alone in appreciating the wealth of historical knowledge that many on here have, are greatful to read such.. It never occured to me that these massive craft could "hog", but it hilights what is important to boat design and construction. An excellent thread indeed  :clap.

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Re that hogging, she probably wouldn't have if she had been worked the way she was designed and built for and carried a cargo, the weight of which would have pulled her down amidships. No computers back then, built by experience and common sense, bit like the Broads. Coincidentally the surviving Lowestoft sailing smack Excelsior was built with similar attributes, her builders working with nature rather than against it. For example her keel bolts are irregularly spaced in order to make best use of the hull's movement at sea.  

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Marshman.

It's amazing who pops out from behind the nicknames on here, isn't it?

It is great to talk to you and thank you all for the way you maintain the Albion. As good as the day she was built, in fact. We couldn't do it as well as that in my day I am afraid, although we tried hard. Not enough money and no proper base. We did do a design though, and chose the site, so at least we made a start in the right direction.

It is so pleasing for me to see her now with a secure future in such safe hands. My heartiest congratulations to you all.

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On 23 November 2015 at 2:06 PM, Laurabassam86 said:

Sorry did someone say Mallie was still alive ? 

yep, he lives in Wayford, go see John..

 

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I've just purchased a large batch of slides for the website and look what appeared amongst them! :-)

I'm not certain of the date on this ... going by the rest of the sildes it could date from any time between the early 60s to the late 70s. Certainly has a mast here and also interesting to see the railings all the way round.

bm_barber_sundog01.jpg

 

Carol

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On 11/19/2015 at 22:46, woodwose said:

There is a picture taken aboard Sundog on this link. http://www.ludhamarchive.org.uk/bdmcwher.htm

I have other pictures in the Chris Boardman collection. (see attached for example)

Nigel (Ludham Community Archive Group)

Wroxham Sundog 60.JPG

This boy is me, aged about 7, so this would put it at 1960. My grandfather Percy Crotch owned Sundog and moored alongside her is the diesel launch Elleren Chief. Not sure who the little girl is yet.

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Nice photo Nicolas, and welcome to the forum.

We would love to hear more history of Sundog as I remember when she used to moor on the island in Thorpe.

I don't remember her moored on Wroxham Broad - maybe you were there for the regatta week?

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On 11/20/2015 at 19:35, woodwose said:

I don't really have much extra information about these photographs. They are scans I made of colour slides taken by Chris Boardman (of How Hill). The only other information is that Chris has written "Sundog 1960" on them. If you look at the photograph on the Ludham Archive website (follow the link), you can see that the wherry has a counter stern. So I think we can be sure that this is Sundog and it was mobile and sailing in 1960 when Chris made a trip on her. The picture I posted also says "Wroxham" on it so we know that's where it was taken. There is another in the same series with St Benet's Abbey in the background.

I attach another picture showing people in deckchairs on the stern. There are no pictures of the complete boat.

I don't know who any of the people are in the pictures. One of the ladies might be Chris' wife, Elaine, but I am not very sure as she looks a bit too young here.

Sorry, that's all I know but I am glad you liked the pictures. So far as I know, these are unpublished (until now).

Best wishes

Nigel (Ludham Community Archive Group)

Sundog 60.JPG

This 1960 picture aboard Sundog includes George Money her skipper, who had worked sailing wherries from boyhood from about 1905, my mother Rosemary, the daughter of the owner Percy Crotch, me as a boy of 7 (half-hidden behind George Money) and friends. Sundog's engine (she did not then have a sailing mast) was barely adequate for her 25 tons, so a launch moored alongside provided extra power during our journeys from one mooring to another. These included How Hill, the home of Chris Boardman who took this picture. When my grandfather died in 1967, or shortly before, Sundog was sold.

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7 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Nice photo Nicolas, and welcome to the forum.

We would love to hear more history of Sundog as I remember when she used to moor on the island in Thorpe.

I don't remember her moored on Wroxham Broad - maybe you were there for the regatta week?

I'll put together some pictures and what I can remember, and what I can glean from my mother. But Sundog was then based at Wroxham, next to the Yacht Club, with its own mooring approached through a reed-bed. Wroxham was where George Money, her skipper, lived. The photo is not mine (they are scans by Woodwose from the Chris Boardman collection).

 

10 minutes ago, NicolasJenni said:

 

 

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I realise I might be a bit late to the party on this post, interesting reading, reminded me that somewhere in my photos I have a photo of Sundog circa 1968. She is seen passing what was then The Bure Court Hotel in Wroxham before it caught fire (the hotel that is) .

sun dog.jpg

broad4037.jpg

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Lovely photos, thank you.

I was drinking there with Tom Farrell and friends from local boatyards, on the night before the Bure Court burnt down.

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Real shame it was never rebuilt, I used to stay at a relatives boat house opposite during my summer school holidays 65-69, loved the broads ever since. This bit of river was always busy with the Bure Court and the Beehive stores :default_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Lovely photos, thank you.

I was drinking there with Tom Farrell and friends from local boatyards, on the night before the Bure Court burnt down.

Yep, I was there, Saturday march 15th   1975.

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Laura - I do hope despite the time delay you discover this post, as I can provide some detail for Sundog's last year or so.  Vanessa, my wife, and I bought her around June 1974.  She was then owned by the people who owned the wherry yacht Olive (or was it White Moth?!) and was moored at their property which was about a mile or so from Gt. Yarmouth along the Acle straight on the left heading towards Yarmouth.  I think we paid £500 for her.   We got married in the August and the first night was spent on her.  By that time we had her moved to Wheatfen Broad, Ted Ellis' (the naturalist) property.  We had a very interesting evening on our wedding night, somewhat worse the wear for alcohol we had to take everything about half a mile through the woods and then across the Marsh!  Very memorable! 

Vanessa was teaching at Bungay Middle Schòol, and I was in my final year at Keswick Hall College of Education. Our intention was to do her up and we started a lot of work in that regard, whilst living aboard. We had her moved to Geldeston in September 1974, as that was nearer to Vanessa'so work, and lived on her very happily, despite the damp!  The wood burner was brilliant! 

In the December we went to the West Midlands to visit Vanessa's family.  Whilst we were away she sank! She had a plank removed, well above waterline.  But a strong wind blew her onto the bank and as the tide went out she was held there, tipped and flooded!  We came back to find all our possessions, including wedding presents, either floating or sunk! We had her pumped out and managed to refloat her.  It was clear we couldn't live on her for sometime.  But our intention was still to do her up.  There's lots of details I could give in that regard, but sadly have no photos. But then a few weeks later Vanessa found she was pregnant and VERY reluctantly we decided to sell her.  We sold her to two young men who worked on the rigs and so we were told and thought had the money to fully restore her.  We went to see her a couple of times.  On one occasion  she had been hauled out and was on the bank, the next time she was burnt out.  I don't cry much but I did on that occasion.  She was truly magnificent and if I could rewrite history I would not have sold her.  She still has a very special place in my heart.  My eldest son, Ben, was conceived on her; that's how special and personal she is to me.  I would be very happy to answer any further questions. Hope that's helpful and fills in a few gaps.

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:default_welcome: to the forum Sundog, and thanks for your post

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Warm welcome to the forum. :) What a fascinating thread. Hadnt come across it before

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2 hours ago, Sundog said:

She was then owned by the people who owned the wherry yacht Olive (or was it White Moth?!)

I was good friends with a young lady who worked for Penthouse, the smutty mag, back then. Her father, Mr Page, owned Olave but I don't recall any mention of Sundog so I suspect that of the two it was White Moth. 

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