Swing Bridges

[Labrador]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/broads-authority-in-talks-with-network-rail-over-two-century-old-swing-bridges-1-5405781

[JanetAnne]

Is it not about time we left these bridges open and offered the rail travellers a replacement boat service? 

[grendel]

That is good news, though it does beg one question. the bridges once had summer and winter rails that were swapped over, to avoid the problem of the winter rails expansion and jamming during the summer months. why when this was as the bridge was originally designed, does the changeover of the rails no longer occur, as it would seem that this was anticipated in the original design,

If they have an idea of the conditions where the bridges stick, then surely they could fit temperature sensors to the rails, and gain more data, and thus more accurate forecasting, rail expansion is a factor of temperature, and must therefore be easily measured and able to be accurately forecast.

[grendel]

4 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Is it not about time we left these bridges open and offered the rail travellers a replacement boat service? 

minibus across reedham ferry?

[TheQ]

The simplest way round this would be to spray the bridge rails with river water, when ever the temperature gets too high. Not a technically difficult task, easy to impliment and shouldn't be too expensive., and since the water came out of the river in the first place no polution problem..

[grendel]

It does seem that network rail already have a solution to reduce expansion in their toolbox, has this been implemented on the bridges?

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/looking-after-the-railway/delays-explained/buckled-rail/

Quote

How we prevent tracks from getting too hot

We work closely with specialist weather forecasters and local weather stations to make necessary plans and take action so rails are less likely to buckle.

• We paint certain parts of the rail white so they absorb less heat – and expand less. Typically, a rail painted white is 5°C to 10°C cooler than one left unpainted.

[PastorsDayOff]

Even if they take all these preventative measures, you know what the excuse will be when they still can’t open the bridges; like the leaves in the autumn, or the snow in winter, it will be ‘the wrong kind of heat’ in the summer!

[JennyMorgan]

The Authority does have the upper hand on this one. A tad more insistence wouldn't go amiss though. 

If you have half an hour to spare then check out railway bridges here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/26-27/92

[Hockham Admiral]

It's good to see John Packman getting some plaudits.      

Fighting such a monolith as Network Rail cannot be an easy task, even for the Broads Authority with legislation on our side.

[ranworthbreeze]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

That is good news, though it does beg one question. the bridges once had summer and winter rails that were swapped over, to avoid the problem of the winter rails expansion and jamming during the summer months. why when this was as the bridge was originally designed, does the changeover of the rails no longer occur, as it would seem that this was anticipated in the original design,

If they have an idea of the conditions where the bridges stick, then surely they could fit temperature sensors to the rails, and gain more data, and thus more accurate forecasting, rail expansion is a factor of temperature, and must therefore be easily measured and able to be accurately forecast.

Hello Grendel,

My guess is that the summer tracks may still be on or around the bridge. There always seems to be stuff lying near to the tracks.

Maybe they should reintroduce the practice of fitting the summer tracks.

Regards

Alan

[Bound2Please]

1 minute ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hello Grendel,

My guess is that the summer tracks may still be on or around the bridge. There always seems to be stuff lying near to the tracks.

Maybe they should reintroduce the practice of fitting the summer tracks.

Regards

Alan

Thats for a few years now Alan wouldnt work as either side of the bridges is now lwr, if they expand so as to stop bridge operation, nothing can be done unless a return to 60ft lengths

Regards

Charlie

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hockham Admiral said:

It's good to see John Packman getting some plaudits.      

Fighting such a monolith as Network Rail cannot be an easy task, even for the Broads Authority with legislation on our side.

I don't think you'll find BA fighting Railtrack as they want them onside , there are a lot of folk moored on rail track land and BA want them moving , hence since BA can't do anything they ask nicely for Railtrack to do it for them and they do especially on the main river side of Thorpe island , when Jenner's was closed off a lot moored there again and some still are , BA did ask Railtrack to get involved again and they did but nothing has happened yet .

So there's one plausible reason why BA don't push around Railtrack too much .

[keifsmate]

Quoting the EDP: The bridges at Reedham on the River Yare and Somerleyton on the River Waveney have been swinging open for fixed-mast river craft since 1905. 

Network rail needs reminding that they and their predecessors have had 113 years to source the relevant spares which will keep the bridges operational. Hot days they can now do little about. Bearing failures are predictable with routine maintenance.

Ohh, they don't do that because it is too expensive.

They would do if the bridges always failed in the open position!

[Cheesey]

Something like this thought process.

Users on river? Not a lot.

Our paying travellers who will moan and claim delay compensation to our franchise? More than a few.

Hmm, who's more important to network rail and who's going to make the most noise and cost votes to whom ever?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, TheQ said:

The simplest way round this would be to spray the bridge rails with river water, when ever the temperature gets too high. Not a technically difficult task, easy to impliment and shouldn't be too expensive., and since the water came out of the river in the first place no polution problem..

I guess someone could argue that there is a risk of oil pollution as the bridge mechanism is lubricated with oil/grease and the diesel loco's could drip oil onto the track that would be washed into the river.

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, Philosophical said:

I guess someone could argue that there is a risk of oil pollution as the bridge mechanism is lubricated with oil/grease and the diesel loco's could drip oil onto the track that would be washed into the river.

That point has been made by the Authority and, to be truthful, I can see its validity. On the other hand I do question what happens when it rains?

[Bayleaf]

5 hours ago, Philosophical said:

I guess someone could argue that there is a risk of oil pollution as the bridge mechanism is lubricated with oil/grease and the diesel loco's could drip oil onto the track that would be washed into the river.

So what happens when it rains?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Bayleaf said:

So what happens when it rains?

Any oil on the bridge will be flushed into the river and the operators that "hosed" the bridge would be liable for prosecution by the EA/BA for knowingly contaminating the river.

In the case of rain water, who can the EA/BA hold responsible? 

[Cockatoo]

In the case of airports and motorways the run off is channelled into special reservoirs where it is treated before going back into the water table. Surely it wouldn't be beyond the resources of National Rail to come up with something similar for it's bridges?

[Bound2Please]

Railway bridges are a lot more complicated than that.

[Guest]

It is a pity that dry ice can't somehow be used to cool the rails.

[Vaughan]

I read in todays EDP website - sorry I don't know how to link it - that the Norwich MP Chloe Smith (she who promised when first elected that she would "Restore Thorpe Green to its former glory") is maintaining pressure to have the Trowse railway bridge replaced by a permanent twin track structure in order to achieve her other much proclaimed dream of running train services up to London in 90 minutes.

So she is happy to have navigation to the Port of Norwich finally closed off, just because it has already been severely restricted by the building of the southern bypass flyover at Postwick Grove. If she is allowed to succeed in this crusading endeavour then you can bet that the next move will be the closure of Reedham swing bridge.

On other threads we have been talking about how the Broads that we know might be threatened even by the change of  a marketing title, let alone the setting aside of legal rights to navigation because of pressure from other interests.

And will she ever achieve her dream of "Norwich in 90"?

Not if snow is forecast, evidently!

[Cockatoo]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/pressure-is-being-kept-up-over-trowse-swing-bridge-change-to-allow-norwich-in-90-trains-says-mp-1-5412330

[TheQ]

The Trowse bridge is comparitively new being built in 86-87, did that ever have replaceable rails? it also has a nominal clearance of 9ft,

Sadly I do think one day Trowse Bridge will be replaced by a fixed bridge, It's approximately 2000ft from Trowse station (end of platforms) to the  Trowse Bridge,  1 in 200 is not unusual on British railways so the best they could gain would be about 10ft of height for a fixed bridge. This would however require rebuilding the Trowse triangle and the Crown point depot which would not be cheap.

Reedham bridge itself could be replaced with a much higher bridge, it would probably require road over bridges to become road under bridges. I suspect 20ft clearance would allow all most all traffic through except the odd yacht that would have to drop it's mast.

Would a 20ft clearance be acceptable? Yes commercial ships to Norwich would be stopped but they haven't run for years. so it would only be yachts that would have to drop their masts

I suspect that the costs for both would be huge, So I think Reedham is unlikely to change.

The southern bypass, is listed as nominal  35ft clearance, there aren't many boats that would have trouble with that.

[grendel]

I think Robin put his airdraft higher than that.