Yards Closing?

[teadaemon]

I'd guess the Reedham yard for sale is this one:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-60239894.html

I've had a quick look at the particulars, and whilst it's certainly better prospect than some yards, it does look to have issues.

1) There's an old fuel pump and buried steel tank(s) in situ. I doubt very much that they come up to modern standards, and even just getting rid of them is a cost the new owner will have to think about.

2) Having sheds with slipways is good, but they're actually a little too small to comfortably take the largest boats on the Broads. In particular, they look a bit too low for modern flybridge or sedan boats, which is a problem for a yard in that location. They would probably have been perfectly fine for traditional Broads cruiser designs.

3) I'd really want to see how often and how deep the site gets flooded in winter (I'm pretty sure it's going to be wet, it's a question of how wet). Bad from the point of view of working there year round, but potentially good if it means the site is unsuitable for residential development.

4) The dyke is silted up, and given the location, dredging is going to be a regular requirement.

5) The local river conditions are not great for moorings (it's obviously possible, but I'd worry about keeping a boat there a lot more than I would in most other places on the Broads).

6) The road access is not good for large vehicles, so not too much scope for getting business craning boats in or out.

Overall, I think the site's too small to be a viable hire yard, and probably doesn't have enough room to make a significant amount of money from moorings (even if the dyke was dredged and perhaps extended into a basin). It might be viable as a working yard doing maintenance, repair and refits, but that does depend a lot on the exact dimensions and state of the buildings.

I know in the past I've said I'd like to take on a yard, and I'd probably be in a position to at least raise a deposit on this one, but I wouldn't have the necessary capital to invest to make it viable, and I certainly don't want to consider it with the current economic climate. Mind you, if somebody did want to become a yard owner and was in need of a manager, I'd happily talk to them.

[JennyMorgan]

That's not the name of the yard that I understand to be closing at the end of the season.

[trambo]

37 minutes ago, teadaemon said:

I'd guess the Reedham yard for sale is this one:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-60239894.html

 

Thats Jimmy Pearsons old yard of Pearson Marine. Think the last season was in 2000.

Fred

[LondonRascal]

I was told back in April about this yard - let's just say, it is in Reedham it has a fair few boats and will be a sad loss.

The real issue is the Broads are changing, because we as a people are changing.  If you think back to those people who were 'wooed' but the new Wilds Caribbean boats and all their luxury items, like blown warm air heating, a fitted kitchen, and household style furniture  in a side, single level boat it would have made everything else of the day seem  'old fashioned'.

Once, you had people who would make a great fuss of having a dishwasher - it really was a big deal and a talking point.  I have a book about home freezing - when owning a proper freezer was a big deal and housewives needed books to tell them how to use them, and that freezing food was not some scary new science.

These days - thanks to low labour costs, production and vast bulk carrying container ships, dishwashers are now nothing new or a big deal, people decorate their homes more often, change things, aspire to more and more -even if that means being happy to borrow money to achieve it something else that a new generation has grown not to see as a taboo but as part of life.

Even humble boating holidays it seems to many is not just about getting away from it all, being peaceful and exploring but judging their accommodation they will stay on far more than ever. When I looked on Hoseasons recently at this yard, and the reviews made for painful reading - people unhappy with the general feel of the boats, leaking windows, not clean, tired interiors right down to the type of welcome they got on arrival. Sure some were positive and had a very nice time but it is like a B&B that needs to modernise - a massive undertaking and a very costly one.

So, sadly yes we can moan the loss of yards and services, but there is just not the money for these yards to have kept up with the relentless progress - you would have needed to have been investing in new builds 15 or so years ago so your fleet was fairly modern now with a couple of 'new for 2015' type stuff too.  I wonder why it used to be the case many yards, even small ones in the 1990's could 'keep up' even if just one new boat in their fleet every few years maybe it was the demise of Aquafibre who molded so many hire boats back in the day so had a good stream of designs one could then fit out, I am not sure but I do hope we don't end up with hire boats only being on the northern rivers and only offered by say 5 companies.

[DAVIDH]

If it has been known since April that this yard will close, why are Hoseasons still accepting bookings for 2017?

Regards

David

[JennyMorgan]

18 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I do hope we don't end up with hire boats only being on the northern rivers and only offered by say 5 companies.

We are heading that way, that's for sure.

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

If it has been known since April that this yard will close, why are Hoseasons still accepting bookings for 2017?

Regards

David

David, perhaps they know where the boats are going, or will offer suitable alternatives in the New Year?

[trambo]

Fairly spot on Robin. I too have read the reviews and they are pretty damming, perhaps not all the fault of the boatyard in that it might be the expectations of the holidaymakers having read the way the Broads and Broads boats are promoted by Hosesons. It has always been a lottery for the first timer especialy when there was more choice. You could have two identical boats, same price, same description but very differant in reality. 

 I don't think it's having an old fleet full stop thats the problem, Martham and Maffets proves that but the boater when he books from them knows what to expect and their traditional values are promoted.

We still have a comparatively wide selection of hire yards, on the Yare / Chet from which to choose, from the super luxury through to the modest and if you look at the availability charts for Pacific and Silverline specifically they are doing rather well from the booking side of things.

As you mention dishwashers, I think the first boats to have them were the Super Star class from Jack Powles. Not at all what you would expect today, it was a sink with a lid and and a washing machine agitator that simply swished the water round. As far as I know the idea was not emulated on further builds and the feature taken out after a few seasons.

Fred

 

[JennyMorgan]

Like Robin I have taken a look at the reviews. All credit to Hoseasons for publishing them and high-lighting the overall scores. Some of the reviews make for really grim reading and, let's be honest, there are far too many really bad ones. No wonder that the yard is closing, it would seem that the owners have lost all interest. Such a shame when one considers the history of the yard and the quality and innovative designs of their boats back in the 60's & 70's. 

[Maxwellian]

At Maffetts you get great friendly service and I love the boats. They are not to everyone's taste. Some like Huge plastic things. I like the smaller wooden variety with character. 12v supply and 12v tv with dvd is the main luxury. But Swallow is just what we want. Just the two of us on a relaxing break pottering along. Lovely. Maffetts are not at the expensive range and as long as they are open we will keep going back. Some other yards that supply boats at the lower end of the luxury scale charge far too much in my opinion. Freedom differentiate by allowing flexible start and finish date as well as being reasonably priced, we had good service from them, but they really work hard to do it.

best of luck to all those yards trying out there. May they have bumper years to come. I do agree with the comment about how the bigger yards re more organised, if you have a place for everything and know where it all is then time is not wasted. Mind you you should see my shed.

[CaptainJoshie]

9 hours ago, TrevorAndDeirdre said:

9 hours ago, imtamping2 said:

No facilities at Langley, I assume you mean Loddon.

There is rubbish disposal at Langley Dyke, well there was a week or so ago.

Swancraft have fuel (99p a litre), water and pump out for private and I guess hire craft.

John.

 

[VetChugger]

I'm puzzled by this. The rightmove sale is not Sandersons if I'm reading the map correctly. I didn't know anyone else at Reedhanm hired holiday cruisers!

[NorfolkNog]

It is Pearson's old yard Trevor. As Fred mentioned they closed down a while ago now. I seem to remember their boats were painted yellow and had a Gold theme in the names. One of their old DC30s was moored at Beccles for a long time. 

[BroadScot]

1 hour ago, NorfolkNog said:

It is Pearson's old yard Trevor. As Fred mentioned they closed down a while ago now. I seem to remember their boats were painted yellow and had a Gold theme in the names. One of their old DC30s was moored at Beccles for a long time. 

Yes Howard,correct.....one I remember, were two Golden Realm 1 and 2. Safaris with the front well.

 

[Hylander]

We took some photos of the rubbish this morning at Langley Dyke.     Good job it was windy yesterday , imagine this lot festering on a hot still day in the summer with all its flies etc.  Not nice and such a beautiful spot on the Broads.

[trambo]

6 hours ago, BroadScot said:

Yes Howard,correct.....one I remember, were two Golden Realm 1 and 2. Safaris with the front well.

 

Golden Realm I at Neatishead. Pearson fitted out the shells himself and II was, although to the same basic layout, quite different in finish internally, She also had a pale cream superstructure which not so much in your face. Always immaculatly presented my favourite was Golden Realm II because of the finish and the fact that she was hired Sunday to Sunday. Made the long journey to and from Runcorn much more relaxing.

Fred

 

 

 

[Broads01]

I remember the Pearson boats were always very well turned out, as your picture shows Fred. Their last year of hiring was 2000.

[marshman]

The bulk of the yard has already been sold off to an investor and its not in boats! The remainder will service the fleet before it disappears and as PW said, you will be offered alternatives.

Robin is right - yards have to invest to survive - why should anyone pay hard earned money for a product below par and poorly turned out? Because it is!! Saw one today in Oulton just poorly presented - there are plenty of old boats which are nicely turned out - yes it requires effort but who would like to guess when any of those were lifted and polished?

Sad I know but lets be honest, its been on the cards for some time and only been a matter of time for some while.

[marshman]

Ooops - just looked at the details!

My comments relate to the other one which by all accounts is not far behind!!!!

[JennyMorgan]

Re poorly turned out boats, there are some shockers, I feel quite sorry for the punters who I feel are sometimes quite badly let down.

[JennyMorgan]

Out of curiosity I checked out some of the smaller yards on Trip Adviser last night as it tends to be the smalls one that are struggling and tend to come up for sale. Inevitably criticism of the bigger ones came up too and one issue reared its head more than once, lack of infrastructure and moorings in particular. Regretfully the big yards are all on the North Rivers and folk, being reticent to cross Breydon, tend to stay up there thus there is congestion. Tin hat time, possibly, but if the hire yards want to make money out of the Broads then I really do think that the time has come for the big yard millionaires to dip their hands into their pockets rather than depend on the toll payer & Broads Authority to provide all the moorings for their boats. The hire yard mooring network is crumbling, regretfully, the industry needs to provide an alternative, in my opinion. 

[trambo]

There was a time when Blakes through their co-operative  maintained  free moorings at Brundall, Cockshoot Dyke, Loddon, Ranworth, Somerleyton and Wroxham, not all of which have survived. They also ran the Gt.Yarmouth yacht station at a fee. Hoeasons did far less but did maintain a mooring on Barton Broad at Catfield and Bradbeer moorings on Ranworth which are now the private moorings on Farm Lane. Personally I think the biggest loss was New Dyke at Brundall which provided safe, off the River Yare moorings with access to the western (The Ram P.H.) end  of The Street.

Fred

[Vaughan]

Thank you Trambo, you beat me to it!

Blakes actually owned the lease to Malthouse Broad and it was they who kept it open to the navigation, not the Commissioners. Otherwise it would still be closed, as Ranworth Broad is today. The also co- financed the Commissioners' Cut, in Thorpe.

Not to forget the famous forced re-opening of Black Horse Broad, by Herbert Woods and many colleagues, in the early 50's.

The Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Yacht Owners' Association (hence the "A" flag) employed Blakes Norfolk Broads Holidays limited to do its marketing, on a non-profit basis. The board of directors of Blakes was drawn from members of the council of the Association. Blakes charged a flat-rate commission on bookings but then paid back a dividend to owner members at the end of the season, so your marketing cost ended up at about 7-9% in a good year. This meant they had a lot of financial clout, and had the vision to plough as much as possible back into the Broads themselves. As a director myself, I saw all the money which was approved, for bank works, research into water quality, development of pumpout equipment, and of course many charities and organisations such as the windmills trust and the wherry trust.

But all that is gone now, and it shows, doesn't it?

Hoseasons, by the way, although the owners had an association (the BOA) was run as a travel agency (and still is) which charged a commission on bookings, for its own profit, so nowhere the money that Blakes had, to plough back into the Broads. Nowadays by no means all yards are with Hoseasons, as they can book direct through their own websites. I bet the internet is not spending any money on the Broads!

Let us also not forget that the Jenners development in Thorpe in the late 60s had as its main aim, to attract business to the south rivers, and was intended as a rival to Herbert Woods. So nothing is new in that respect!

I thoroughly agree that the Broads have to be commercial, so that money can be spent on them, to keep them open. I sometimes - no, often - wonder if the BA see it that way. One way or another it is up to them, and to modern-day business. My generation did our bit, and our fathers before us.

[JennyMorgan]

Some of the smaller yards can hardly help themselves today let alone afford to plough money back into the Broads. One Trip Adviser correspondent pointed out that after a long journey from the far North he arrived at a Broads yard, his whole family in need of lavatories, only to be directed by the proprietor to an old caravan that was the yard's toilet block. For heavens sakes this is 2016, not 1916. Surely it is not unreasable, after a long journey, to expect a civilised toilet, perhaps a shower and the offer of a tea or coffee? I well remember stopping at a yard, now long gone, at Acle Bridge. Sordid is not a strong enough word to describe what we found. Toilets say a great deal about a business.

[kadensa]

I can't say the lavatories at the yard would bother me, as long as they're clean (I'm used to travelling in Europe and Africa) and I certainly wouldn't require the boatyard to provide me with a shower or tea or coffee. Anyone would think that there were no facilities between the 'far North' ( where is that, then?)  and the boatyard.