Times Up / Alphacraft Auction

[Baitrunner]

I can actually see the auctioneers making more than will be made to pay of the debt they were seized for!!

As Vaughan says they sound like they are worth pennies given about all you know you will be getting is something that needs a lot of hard work and at best a decent amount of cash spending on it, at worst a fortune.

It is a shame they hadn't been at least prep'd and sold running, but that would take effort and money.

From what I am reading the bids will no doubt be very small which is maybe why the auctioneer is taking his 20%!!

[MauriceMynah]

I wonder if the amounts might improve if the various forums discussing the subject were talking in a more positive manner. All I've read here  is "wouldn't touch 'em with a barge pole" and "Have you seen the hole in that one", not to mention "They've been left open so they may well have been robbed of anything worth while".

How about mentioning that Broad Ambition was in a pretty poor state till some people with some skill and some cash got hold of it.. Look at her now! Janet Ann, Royal Tudor, and Nipper didn't look like they do now when they were first sold from the hire fleets.

There are people out there with the skills and the desire to 'Do them up' and may well sell to some such people.... that is if they aren't totally put off by this thread.

Buying anything at an auction is a gamble and it's worth pointing that out, but suggesting that for all we know they might not even have propellers is a pretty damming piece of speculation.

[kfurbank]

I suspect that most people who are serious about buying one of these boats will know what to look for and have the resources to fix them up and will have a fair idea of what to pay. Anyone else dreaming or even semi interested in buying one of these would do well to read what has been put on this thread so far. Whilst it may be nice for HMRC to receive as much money as possible for these assets, I wouldn't like it to be at the expense of some poor dreamer who thinks they are buying a boat for a song, only to find the expense has only just started.

Tempting as some of these boats may be, the ongoing costs could be eye watering. The BA is already reviewing the toll structure that is more than likely to hit privateers with larger boats. Moorings are always rented by the metre, or can I say foot since Brexit. Lift out and back in, anti foul, again by the foot. There is a reason why there are not many of the 40ft plus hire boats selling into private hands, even the good ones. I wouldn't even contemplate Brabazon or Mirage if you gave them to me.

To the best of my knowledge there is only two Alpha 44s in private hands, Darling G private from new and Oceans Dream ex Brinks hire and one Alpha 44 highliner private from new, cannot remember the name, but it was in Anglia Afloat some time back. Some of the early 44s are coming up to 18 years old, but not entering private hands. I purchased my current ex hire boat, when it was 12 years old. I think the hire yards are building themselves a problem for the future with their obsession with 40ft plus boats.

[BroadScot]

Quote

I think the hire yards are building themselves a problem for the future with their obsession with 40ft plus boats.

Surely with all the extra toll money from the larger craft, the BA will build new longer moorings to accommodate them all?  Oops sorry was dreaming then!

Iain

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Buying anything at an auction is a gamble and it's worth pointing that out, but suggesting that for all we know they might not even have propellers is a pretty damming piece of speculation.

So you have never hauled a boat out on a slip to find the propellor is not there. Or the skeg for that matter.

If you think that is speculation, consider this. It is said these boats have not been hauled out for 3 years or more, so they have been sitting in the brackish waters of the tidal river Yare without their anodes being changed (if they have anodes) and so electrolytic action will almost certainly have rendered the bronze of their propellors effectively "dead". If you tap a propellor and it rings, like a chime, then the metal is alive. If it goes thunk, then it is dead, and eventually one or more of the blades will simply fall off while you are going down the river. That is without bringing cavitation or grounding damage into the equation. So I was not being frivolous.

The purpose of this forum, as I see it, is to share experience. Yes , the professional, as Kfurbank says, will look at these boats with his jaundiced eye and turn away. Others on the thread may be looking to us for good advice, and we owe that to them. So my advice is that you cannot think of buying a boat in these circumstances without seeing it out of the water and having it surveyed.

In this case, you really must look a gift horse in the mouth.

[dnks34]

We may have mentioned things in this thread that could have brought anyone inexperienced looking at them as a good deal right down to earth which can only be a good thing.

Anyone who has the time, facilities and cash required to turn one or two of these boats back into something to be proud of at the end of the day they will end up with a very nice boat for themselves indeed, baring in mind that they would be unlikely to ever see the majority of that cash back again but for someone whos looking for a project the whole fun of which is the restoration then that may not be of significance.

I must admit If i was in different circumstances I would certainly be prepared to go for one of the 44's and enjoy making a thoroughly good job of it so it isnt all negative. 

[MauriceMynah]

Nobody wants to see anybody getting 'stung' and if someone is thinking of bidding for one of those boats and wants our opinion then they are more than welcome to ask. I would then support quite a bit of what's been said (though possibly not all)

However my poiint is this.... Is it absolutely impossible that there is, in amongst those lots, a boat, that is basically sound, with a working engine (including prop) and that if the new owner is prepared to put up with the current shabby condition will see him ok?

Is iot absolutely assured that all the boats on offer are wrecks with no hope of redemtion, just promises of tears and disaster ahead?

I'm sorry Vaughan but the prop point is speculation unless you know otherwise.

52 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Yes , the professional, as Kfurbank says, will look at these boats with his jaundiced eye and turn away.

Will he? Are you sure? or might that be more speculation.

 

 

[dnks34]

knowing the condition of the prop on my ex hire at time of purchase its concievable to think that even if a prop is present there is no guarantee its straight and complete, this might surface for a hireboat but an owner will likely notice rattles and vibrations etc etc.  

Obviously it is all speculation but its from people who are realistic and may well know what they are talking about!  Without speculation whats the point in a discussion forum! 

[MauriceMynah]

18 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Obviously it is all speculation but its from people who are realistic and may well know what they are talking about!  Without speculation whats the point in a discussion forum! 

Discussions have two sides, this thread seemed to have just the one. I'm not for one moment saying that any of the doom and gloom merchants were "unrealistic" and I don't for one minute question their qualifications, Further had the points raised been prefixed by "in my opinion" or similar I would have felt less inclined to raise the point, however (and to speculate) I wonder if there has been anyone reading this thread who has changed his mind and decided not to bid as a result.

I further wonder if we shall see any of the boats concerned in future years. If we do, and the person who decided against bidding also sees them, I wonder what he'll think then!

[dnks34]

I would prefer to think it has helped anyone wishing to bid do so better armed rather than put them off.

In my own mind I would think a lot of these boats are going to end up back in a hire fleet anyway, if a private person (could) pick one up very cheap I cant see why an existing hire operator wouldnt want to. 

[ranworthbreeze]

Anyone buying a used boat would look around it, check to see if the BSS is up to date, more than likely have a survey prior to purchase, if all was good then they would try and get a deal. 

With this auction that is not the case, yes there is the option for viewing but that will be it no survey option and as already stated probably no BSS in force.

There may however be some mileage for a low bid being accepted.

All I can say it is a pity that these boats are in their present condition and as usual the liquidator is the only one to come out on top in this situation.

Regards

Alan

[vanessan]

I would think the OP, Mondeoman, must be sitting scratching his head wondering how his post became what it has! Having said that, it is an interesting debate and one that needs following closely by anyone considering one of the Alphacraft boats. I remember when we bought our boat, it wasn't in a very good state but we were able to have it surveyed prior to purchase so we knew pretty well what we were going to have to shell out to get it serviceable. (And whatever you think you're going to have to pay out - double it and then some probably!!) 

I hope that a lot of the would-be purchasers will be forum members or at least people who take an interest in the forums, all I can add is my advice to keep reading and take very careful note of all that has been said. 

[dnks34]

The annoying thing is we will probably never know what price any of the boats actually achieve.  

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

'm sorry Vaughan but the prop point is speculation unless you know otherwise.

In my experience, which includes running well more than 50 Alpha boats in France, there is not much speculation involved here. However, my "prop point" was that unless you have the chance to have a good look underneath beforehand, then if you are the one wanting to buy the boat,  you become the one who is speculating - big time.

I am not betting my money on this but you would be, if you were to buy one of these, virtually sight unseen.

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Yes , the professional, as Kfurbank says, will look at these boats with his jaundiced eye and turn away.

Will he? Are you sure? or might that be more speculation.

The professionals already know these boats well, so if they want to buy any, that will be their choice.

I , and others, have been advising that this sort of auction may not be the best place for an amateur to think they have a bargain. I am sorry if you don't also appreciate that sentiment.

[Broads01]

I'm enjoying reading this and I think it's an entertaining and informative discussion. I'm many years off buying a boat, if it ever happens at all, but nevertheless I've learned a lot from the technical issues raised here.

[John]

So just let say you were looking for a boat and willing to take a punt Vaughan, knowing what you know what would you bid for firefly and the high liner not mustang?

[kfurbank]

25 minutes ago, John said:

So just let say you were looking for a boat and willing to take a punt Vaughan, knowing what you know what would you bid for firefly and the high liner not mustang?

Without workshop facilities, GRP trained employees and lift out facilities, in other words a private buyer, I wouldn't risk my money. There's an old saying, "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is!!!!"

Face facts, the professionals with the money and trained employees only cherry picked two of the boats last year, says a lot about the rest. I'm sure before it got to the seizure stage, the price would have been dropping and still none of the big boys were interested. 

[ExSurveyor]

I seem to acquire boats with reckless abandon.

 I looked around these boats last weekend and have to say that on the basis of what I could see they are money pits even before you find hidden problems. 

They really aren't for the enthusiastic amateur. 

MM,  if this discussion makes people think twice before buying then that is a good thing. 

[Mondeoman]

3 hours ago, vanessan said:

I would think the OP, Mondeoman, must be sitting scratching his head wondering how his post became what it has! Having said that, it is an interesting debate and one that needs following closely by anyone considering one of the Alphacraft boats. I remember when we bought our boat, it wasn't in a very good state but we were able to have it surveyed prior to purchase so we knew pretty well what we were going to have to shell out to get it serviceable. (And whatever you think you're going to have to pay out - double it and then some probably!!) 

I hope that a lot of the would-be purchasers will be forum members or at least people who take an interest in the forums, all I can add is my advice to keep reading and take very careful note of all that has been said. 

Yes I am,but it has been interesting reading.

[quo vadis]

Mondean this could all be a double bluff ploy 

[BroadAmbition]

Sigh, thank goodness it's so much easier with a woody, what you see is what you get

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

To put it in perspective.  'B.A' was offered for sale (Not auction) via a broker at £12k.  John Williams from Stalham gave her the once over (in water Survey) after haggling and taking the sellers rose tinted glasses firmly off, we ended up paying just £2k for her.  Then the trouble really started

Griff

[LizG]

When it was agreed I would take full ownership of WR, one brother of three asked what happened if I sold WR and made a profit............

[BroadAmbition]

When it was agreed I would take full ownership of WR, one brother of three asked what happened if I sold WR and made a profit....

Answer:-  His great great grandchildren might have inherited the odd few pounds . . . .  . .  if they lived long enough!

Griff

[ZimbiIV]

Having been up and down Hobro's Dyke a few times this year.

All I can add, is the first tools any buyer needs are of the gardening type!

paul