Wild Camping Ban

[Timbo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-39117802

Possible implications for Broads boating?

[brandenjg]

Should be fine if it only affects national parks 

[Chelsea14Ian]

I agree two points a, it is a National  park b,it's Scotland. So I don't think it will affect  the Broads and most of BA's income comes from boating.

[smellyloo]

So ..... are National Parks created for the enjoyment of people or the preservation of habitat?

Perhaps we will end up with publically funded private no go areas.

[Polly]

We already have, Hoveton Great Broad!

[JennyMorgan]

I don't see it as a problem within the Broads, yet. Back packers and dinghy cruisers, folk who move from one location to another on a daily basis are generally not the problem. However if people start parking up along the river bank in dorma-mobiles and camper-vans then I do see a problem in the making. Long may the freedom to go 'wild' camping continue but I fear it could be threatened if people park up for the week and then leave all their detritus behind.

[vanessan]

Could wild mooring be classed alongside wild camping?? Could be a slippery slope..........

[JennyMorgan]

15 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

So ..... are National Parks created for the enjoyment of people or the preservation of habitat?

Perhaps we will end up with publically funded private no go areas.

Both, or at least that was the original concept, namely to preserve the habitat for the enjoyment of the public. Regretfully that commendable purpose seems to have been overlooked by some in their high towers.

[marshman]

It may not affect the Broads directly but over the years there have been plenty of posts elsewhere about the mess that has been left behind where it has occurred - don't think it is the camper vans but those in canoes who do it and leave the remains of their "meal" behind!!!! Why cannot people respect the environment? Oh that applies to some large landowners too i suspect!!

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, vanessan said:

Could wild mooring be classed alongside wild camping?? Could be a slippery slope..........

Yes.

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, marshman said:

It may not affect the Broads directly but over the years there have been plenty of posts elsewhere about the mess that has been left behind where it has occurred - don't think it is the camper vans but those in canoes who do it and leave the remains of their "meal" behind!!!! Why cannot people respect the environment? Oh that applies to some large landowners too i suspect!!

Canoes and day-boats and let's not forget those anglers who also leave rubbish behind. As for camper vans, not a problem, yet. I can think of a number of places besides the rivers where inconsiderate camper vans could lay up for a week's free camping and where there is no one to clear up after them. If folk think that moorings are expensive then they should check out what some river-side camping sites charge! 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Very true some years back my aunt  and  uncle spent a day with us on the boat.I phoned around  for them to bring there caravan. I was surprised  how much they were charging 

[Vaughan]

We use our camper van for travelling long distance between Norfolk and France but sometimes go and have a weekend in the country.

It is completely automonous, with a domestic battery, 2 gas bottles and water for several days. The cassette type toilet is also much more convenient than a holding tank. There should be no reason for a camper van to leave any trace of its presence behind.

What's more, the shower water and kitchen sink go into a tank, and not straight into the river!

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, Vaughan said:

We use our camper van for travelling long distance between Norfolk and France but sometimes go and have a weekend in the country.

It is completely automonous, with a domestic battery, 2 gas bottles and water for several days. The cassette type toilet is also much more convenient than a holding tank. There should be no reason for a camper van to leave any trace of its presence behind.

What's more, the shower water and kitchen sink go into a tank, and not straight into the river!

That is entirely true and to be commended but can we honestly expect 100% commonsense compliance? 

[JennyMorgan]

Just a thought, if a camper van can be autonomous then why can't a boat be?

[Timbo]

1 minute ago, JennyMorgan said:

Just a thought, if a camper van can be autonomous then why can't a boat be?

They used to be and mine will be...except for the pump out loo...that's a point that has been missed by today's consumer society.

We used to have a phrase drilled into us in the Scouts "A good Scout leaves nothing behind but his thanks.".Reinforced by the ubiquitous 'Fairy Dance' at the end of camp which had to be performed if you lost a personal item of kit or left litter. With hand on head, the other on the hip, hopping round and round on one leg reciting
"I'm a little fairy
Dancing round and round
Something of mine has been lost
And now it has been found."

The sight of the lads organising themselves into litter picking lines, without being asked, was a regular one around our campsites.

[imtamping2]

  46 minutes ago, vanessan said:

Could wild mooring be classed alongside wild camping?? Could be a slippery slope.........

 

47 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Yes.

Have to disagree there JM........ and don't say canopy 

 

 

camping

ˈkampɪŋ/

noun

 

1. the activity of spending a holiday living in a tent.

    

[Bound2Please]

52 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

 I can think of a number of places besides the rivers where inconsiderate camper vans could lay up for a week's free camping and where there is no one to clear up after them.

A few years ago TDC brought in no over night parking of camper vans or caravan's on the seafront after down to all the rubbish that was left after they departed. Mind that made it fairer on campers as for as long as i can remember no camping has been allowed on the beaches, greenswards and cliffs

Charlie

[ChrisB]

Unfortunately there has been very serious antisocial behavior around areas of Loch Lomond for quite a while now which is why the original ban was put in place. Everything from litter not taken home, human waste left on the surface to syringes still with needles.

Maybe the displaced just moved to another area? But again a minority of sub human beings ruin it for the majority of well behaved campers.

[NeilB]

I believe wild camping is illegal in England and Wales but not in Scotland?  Hence these new bylaws.  I'd much rather they tackle the inconsiderate campers that are causing the issues rather than penalise everyone.  But sadly this seems to be the default way of handling various issues these days.

[riyadhcrew]

We have trouble in Scotland with ''travellers'' who will turn up on mass in their caravans and take over a car park or a children's playing field. Would that be classed as ''wild camping'', because I know all the local residents were wild at what was happening.

[TheQ]

The big difference is that in Scotland you can park/, camp /walk / anywhere that causes no damage to the property ( and does not infringe other bylaws).  Travellers unfortunately are renown for cutting up playing fields with vehicles and leaving vast amounts of rubbish behind...

In England theoretically you could not, until recently,  do any of those things without the land owners permission, be it State / council or private. The recent changes in England mean you are now allowed to walk on land that is designated as allowable to do so, which basically means non crop growing land, that is not a  garden or factory yard. But you can't go camping.

Note, the right of access to things like Kinder Scout and National Parks was allowed on the fact, that you do no damage to the land by walking on it. However they often now have to close paths, because the huge masses of people  walking across the peat is causing damage.

So outside of things like military bases, the imposition of this new bylaw in Scotland is a major event.

 I know being a member of things like the Scottish Railway preservation Society, we have had problems with people trying to use the right to roam, to gain access to the Railway during open days.. 

 

And Riyadhcrews problems  with travellers in Scotland very much apply to Norfolk especially during the summer holiday season, when traveller turn up and try to take over School playing fields or GT Yarmouth seafront.

[TheQ]

Oh that definition of camping is of course the modern one. If you have an field near you shown as the camping ground that does not  mean it was meant for putting tents up.

The orginal meaning of camping was field sports like the old mayhem version of rugby /football or archery. The fact these events often were part of what today, would be called a fete or market, where people would put up tents  and stalls led to the transfer of the name...

[JennyMorgan]

It would be a problem for me if 'wild' camping as well as 'wild' moorings were banned because I find no greater pleasure than pulling into an abandoned carr, please note the second 'c', and setting up my tent. Hardly 'wild' in the enclosed picture, being outside the Pleasure Boat at Hickling where having an unaccustomed second half of shandy might be considered 'wild' by some, but it illustrates my possible problem.

[vanessan]

I wish someone would find a way of penalising the wrongdoers rather than everybody in general. Plastic carrier bags was a prime example, those who responsibly recycled and reused had to accept a total ban on free bags from shops because of the selfishness and thoughtless actions of some. Dogs get banned from places because some owners don't clear up. So many more examples where it is the 'innocents' who suffer - it just ain't right! Rant over.