Boat Share Purchase

[Guest]

Ok, after a few months of annoying people with my bothersome questions (to some of the members on here included) we are finally going to view the boat this weekend before potentially (hopefully) purchasing a syndicate share in the boat.

So in one final push to trouble you all again before hopefully becoming a private (shared) boat owner can anyone give their top tips on what to be looking for and asking about whilst we view and before making a final decision. Or even your thoughts on the syndicate ownership if you have had experience or are in a syndicate currently.

We do feel well informed already but some top tips from you experienced syndicate/private owners would be most helpful and appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance 

Jay

[LondonRascal]

I'd agree with John's points. So far as syndicated ownership goes it is much like buying a Leasehold property and having a Service Charge.  One day the Landlords say they are going to make some major improvements/repairs and out the blue your usually low Service Charge goes through the roof as your contribution for these.

So, really it comes down to money and choice.  Most people would not have the out right funds to go and splash out on a large river boat, so the syndicate route looks ideal - you get a minimum guaranteed period of time on the boat (sometimes more if other owners  are not on the boat themselves) and your share is yours to own and, should you wish sell on.  The variable is the running costs and as so often in life these can only do one thing - go up - while the overall value of the asset will usually fall.

While boats do hold their value better than most other things (caravans, cars etc) they do slip in value over time, however the condition of them, additions and upgrades all help to make them more attractive to potential buyers and thus stand head and shoulders above the rest and be worth more.

I mention this so you are aware the price you pay for your share now in 2017 may fall over time and not increase or stay steady.

Mooring fees, insurance, and the dreaded Broads Authority Tolls will go up little or much over each year so your contribution to these (along with everyone else in the syndicate) will also go up.

However, if it is your own boat you might wish for a new toilet - maybe an all electric affair, and while you are at it also replace the hob and oven - but you can put this off until a time suits you and budget too.  In the world of syndicate boating you might well find the majority vote that they do want such upgrades even if you feel the ones you currently have are perfectly fine, none the less you'd be ask to pay your fair contribution.  It could be argued though that adds potentially a small extra value to the boat overall and thus helps everyone's share worth stay buoyant in the open market.

If you are happy with this, and happy to take over a boat void of all your own goods and need to return it likewise all clean, tidy and ready for the next user to take out then it is a good way of boat ownership.  If you might like the choice and freedom to buy a rug, put some items up here and there, leave food and bedding on the boat for next time and the like syndicate boating might not appeal.

 

[Guest]

Thanks guys good stuff.

Not being able to personalise the boat on a permanent basis doesn't really bother us but the additional costs and whether we will get enough use out of it are concerns we have discussed and believe we will make it worthwhile, I guess that remains to be seen though.

I may need to take the boat out solo like you Robin and leave the wife and kids toiling away at home 

[SueH]

Hi.  Which boat are you going to view?

SueH

[Guest]

Hi Sue.

Evening Shadow but still looking at Moonlight too 

[SueH]

We are on board at the moment. Going back 5th May.  Perhaps you would like to meet and compare/contrast.  

Same hull, slightly different specification.

Sue

[Guest]

That would be great Sue. Ill private message you if that's ok.

 

[SueH]

Just now, Jayfire said:

That would be great Sue. Ill private message you if that's ok.

 

OK.  S

[Broads01]

As a frequent hirer I've long mulled over the syndicate option. I can see the benefits both from a cost perspective and from the point of view of enjoying ownership. What's always put me off is the date lottery thing. I know members swap weeks about, but it's miles away from being able to book a hire boat for the exact week you want. In the Spring and Autumn, I prefer to avoid March and November but with a syndicate I'd have to accept those if I couldn't swap. 

[NorfolkNog]

I must say I agree with Simon, that would be the main concern for me as well. I like to go at certain times and conversely there are times when I would rather not go too!

[webntweb]

We have had a share in Lightning for about 5 years (previously we had a share in Moonlight).

We are reorganising our booking system to a rolling block system (work in progress) but basically you will know your weeks for years ahead, which will give those who are still working the chance to get their holidays booked as soon as they made available at their workplace, and will also give all owners plenty of time to arrange swaps.

We are self managed and for three of the years that we have owned the share the total inclusive annual costs have been about £1,700 for 4 weeks use - the cost with fuel and collision waiver for hiring the same model of boat is more than this for ONE peak season week only.

The other two years have cost us: Last year £550 more because we had a new engine. This year about £300 more because we rebuilt the gearbox and had some other upgrade work done. Even these extra expenses were only about the cost of a winter week, so we still had Spring and Autumn weeks free compared with hiring.

Roy

[Matt]

We used to have a share in evening shadow before moving over to Thunder- it's a lovely boat and we had many enjoyable weeks onboard her. When we sold our share after 4 years of use we got the money back that we paid for it. We picked up a number of spare weeks see by their owners and after those 4 years and having sold it I worked out that each week had cost us less now £300.

If you are buying a four week share I would suggest doing your costs on 3 weeks use per year- a number of people don't use their Winter allocation.

In terms of questions to ask my big one would be what's in the the bank account? You are not just buying an 8% share of a boat but also an 8% share of the bank account. Thunder has over £4K in the bank at the moment which would go some way to offestting any bad news that would be received!

my other question would be you need to work out what the boat would be like for out of season cruising to get the most out of syndicate ownership. From memory ES has electric plugs in every cabin so you can run a small electric radiator but the sliding canopy was never draught proof!

Thunder has a Facebook page where we put all of our costs and other info on it that would be of any use- https://m.facebook.com/thundersyndicate/

 

 

 

[Victoryv]

Valid point regarding the bank account, I would suggest the boat is also managed by the syndicate.

We had a two week share some years ago on a well known syndicate boat, we never intended keeping it for long but just wanted make sure we would be keen long enough to buy our own boat. The boat at the time was taken care of by a management company and it was not cheap, but my thinking was, no worries about maintenance,tolls insurance etc.

We had our first trip of the year, mid May, arranged for some friends to join us for a few days and set sail on a beautiful morning for Salhouse,perfect stern on mooring on a busy quay, felt very pleased with myself all round.

Sat enjoying the sunshine, chatting to neighbouring boats etc, I had spotted the broads authority sat in the middle of the broad, nothing to worry about. Did wonder why he was looking at us through his binoculars for a good long time. Eventually he made his way over and asked to come aboard, thought nothing of it, can't have done anything wrong, only been out that morning. The ranger announced in front of a full quay of onlookers and our guests etc that the boat had no tolls, no insurance and no boat safety certificate.As you can imagine we were mortified and not a little embarrassed.The ranger knew full well that it was a syndicate boat, his approach was designed to embarrass. Needless to say, that was effectively the end of the holiday.

Now the above I consider serious and the syndicate as a whole should have been in uproar, but it paled into insignificance when on the next trip I left a tupperware box of cheese biscuits behind in a cupboard, the syndicate forum nearly burst a blood vessel.

Think about the little things.

[Wildfuzz]

Cheese biscuits can be very dangerous if left unattended...........

[Gracie]

Especially if you happen upon them with a lump of cheese and a jar of pickles in your hand

Grace

[Bound2Please]

Just now, Gracie said:

Especially if you happen upon them with a lump of cheese and a jar of pickles in your hand

Grace

I hope your not ruining stilton darlin with pickles.

Charlie

[Paul]

We have considered syndicate many times, but never taken the plunge. We pretty much gave up on the idea when Jamie was born 7 years ago.

We looked at two options, managed boats such as Evening Shadow and self managed like Ranworth Breeze. If we were to consider syndicate ownership again I would want to look at self managed syndicates. Management companies take a heavy fee for their services. That's just my preference of course, others are very happy to pay a management company in order to be able to leave things such as booking winter overhauls, major repairs etc to them. You pays your money and make your choice. 

I would want to be very clear on what the annual fee covers, they list it on the website but dig, dig, dig. What does "adjustment" mean? Does the winter maintenance include any contingency? If so what is the current level of contingency? If the engine were to need replacement is there money to cover that, or would the owners be asked for a top up? What is the policy on maintenance, upgrade, refurbishment? Is that the owners decision or the management company's? Does the management company earn commission on works undertaken from the contractor? Ask, ask, ask. 

What are the rules on boat usage, must the share owner be on board during their weeks, or can they loan there weeks to family and friends. Some people would see being able to as a benefit, others would be concerned that the boat might not be handled or cared for as they would expect if another owners neighbours dog walkers sister was using it. I think I fall in to that category. 

Talk to as many other owners as you can, if they are happy that must be a good sign.

I know you are not buying the boat outright, but I would want to see some kind of condition report.

Of course, the other approach is to view the boat, decide if you like it, decide if you are happy with what you are expected to pay, do you see it as good value? If so, does anything else matter?

[Victoryv]

Some syndicates don't allow dogs, worth checking if you like to take a dog on holiday, I like to take cheese biscuits but  in some syndicates this is frowned upon !

The syndicate we were part of didn't allow dogs, not a problem for me I prefer cats. Did see our boat a couple of days before we were due to join it, moored at Beccles with three alsatians making sure nobody looked through the windows, hope they didn't have dog biscuits aboard!

What really upset me after all the cheese biscuit fuss died down, is that we never got the tupperware box back.

[Gracie]

I'm sorry Victoryv, I don't mean to make light of your experience but your last post made me laugh I nearly choked on my drink (coffee, Charlie) I for one would buy you a Tupperware box full of cheese biscuits, with some cheese thrown is as well, bless you

I do hope that post was tongue in cheek and you don't take offence at the delight I got from it

Grace

[Bound2Please]

Darlin yer is slipping coffee, coffee I hope it was nice one, as unlike the plonk it don't add to yer five a day.

Have to admit it made me chuckle to

Charlie

[Victoryv]

If you can make somebody smile then the day has been a success !

The point I was trying to make is that its the little things that make a big difference, if I had found a box of cheese biscuits left behind I would either feed them to the ducks, eat them, or at worst complain on the syndicate at the lack of Dairylea and a bottle of port. 

At least keep my gob shut and think about the lovely, new, clip top, air tight, just right size tupperware box I had just won.

Let me know if I go on to much about the tupperware box but it really was a beauty !

[Wildfuzz]

Mrs W. was one of those Tupperware girls in the eighties....... I remember my Mum having the girls round in the seventies for these mysterious parties that men never went to. All those brown and orange containers that my frosties were stored in, but never kept them in as good a condition as the cardboard box did!!!!

[Victoryv]

Thats it rub it in.

[Jbx5]

Don't knock the Tupperware box

i had the same orange one for over 30 years used every day at work in the building trade

sad day it met its end.

 

John

[Siddy]

I remember driving from Orlando airport to Disney in 2000 and passed a large building with Tupperware on it, I thought it had died in the 70's