Broads01 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Smoggy said: Is there anything stopping someone declaring two people and the other "can't make it till tommorow" or borrowing a local for the handover and then sending them off with a thank you beer to enjoy a weeks hire? I don't want to appear cynical, but I am! And I'd try it! I've no doubt it's possible but personally I'd never feel comfortable trying to deceive the boatyard. I couldn't deal with the worry of being found out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadAmbition Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Thank goodness we have 'B.A' tucked up in Richo's wet shed, ready to go 24/7 solo, solo with dog, solo with wife or multiple crew members onboard. However - The genie out now out of the lamp, how long before insurers state no solo cruising on private craft? Griff 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 8 hours ago, BroadAmbition said: Thank goodness we have 'B.A' tucked up in Richo's wet shed, ready to go 24/7 solo, solo with dog, solo with wife or multiple crew members onboard. However - The genie out now out of the lamp, how long before insurers state no solo cruising on private craft? Griff In my twenties I did a number of bluewater passages in small sailboats either single handed or short handed. Even though I was a Yachtmaster (Ocean) and the class of boat (Nordic Folkboat) had a number of circumnavigations to it's credit we never secured insurance whilst passage making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, ChrisB said: In my twenties I did a number of bluewater passages in small sailboats either single handed or short handed. Even though I was a Yachtmaster (Ocean) and the class of boat (Nordic Folkboat) had a number of circumnavigations to it's credit we never secured insurance whilst passage making. A condition of my insurance is that for offshore sailing over a specified number of hours I need at least one other crew member on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddfellow Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 13 hours ago, Smoggy said: Is there anything stopping someone declaring two people and the other "can't make it till tommorow" or borrowing a local for the handover and then sending them off with a thank you beer to enjoy a weeks hire? I don't want to appear cynical, but I am! And I'd try it! Let me assure you that if anyone tries this with Freedom, they would be turned away for breach of contract. As most of you would appreciate, breach of contract would likely not attract a refund. I can't be more clear. It's dishonest. People sometimes try it with Security Deposits; they might suggest that they are a mixed group and then present as all males in an attempt to get away with a £50 per head refundable deposit. They say the ladies will be along later which is not true. A group tried this last year and got very indignant and rude when we insisted on the deposit before we would allow them to board. If you can't accept the rules, don't pretend to; safety is not a game, it could be a matter of life and death. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddfellow Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 12 hours ago, Philosophical said: Would anyone care to share this risk assessment so that we can all appreciate the detail? This will be an internal document, the likes of which would not convey the level of consideration and planning. It is not for public consumption in the same way that your bank statement isn't 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddfellow Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 9 hours ago, BroadAmbition said: Thank goodness we have 'B.A' tucked up in Richo's wet shed, ready to go 24/7 solo, solo with dog, solo with wife or multiple crew members onboard. However - The genie out now out of the lamp, how long before insurers state no solo cruising on private craft? Griff Unlikely to happen, Griff. Richardsons' decision is not insurance related and it's a red herring to think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said: This will be an internal document, the likes of which would not convey the level of consideration and planning. It is not for public consumption in the same way that your bank statement isn't Thought not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddfellow Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Philosophical said: Thought not Why would you think anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 minute ago, FreedomBoatingHols said: Why would you think anything else? A number of us do sail single handed or solo both inshore and offshore, If you have a document that details the risks of doing so, then I think it would be a public service to make that document public so as to alert those solo and single handed sailors of some risks they might not have previously considered or been aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightsaidfred Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I am not aware of any business that publishes its health and safety risk assessment or any other internal assessments, Fred 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshman Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Perhaps it would be easier to say if you are not aware of the risks, don't go! Can we no longer think for ourselves? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxwellian Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 minute ago, marshman said: Perhaps it would be easier to say if you are not aware of the risks, don't go! Can we no longer think for ourselves? Most can think for themselves, but in this litigious society that we live in today that appears not to be good enough. The case of the person who sue McDonalds as they were burn by their hot coffee! in today’s age the employer has to be able to show that the employee is fit to, and capable of doing their job. It appears to me That they are just making this easier to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Maxwellian said: Most can think for themselves, but in this litigious society that we live in today that appears not to be good enough. The case of the person who sue McDonalds as they were burn by their hot coffee! in today’s age the employer has to be able to show that the employee is fit to, and capable of doing their job. It appears to me That they are just making this easier to do. Better stay home, avoid electricity and sharp knives, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddfellow Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Risks 28 minutes ago, Philosophical said: A number of us do sail single handed or solo both inshore and offshore, If you have a document that details the risks of doing so, then I think it would be a public service to make that document public so as to alert those solo and single handed sailors of some risks they might not have previously considered or been aware of. Business risk assessments are not for this purpose. They are peculiar to each business and each will handle things in a different way. None of this is for public consumption and as RSF says above, no company would make any such internal document public. Solo sailors need to consider the potential dangers of going out alone in varying different types of vessel / conditions and so on. None of it is rocket science; it's all about the risks of injury and incident and how you plan to reduce them by guidance and mitigate them through implementing change. Anyone can do one for anything; boiling a kettle for instance where the risks would include injury from boiling water, steam, electrocution or burning, spillages / slippages. Probably things missing from that list... If you solo with Freedom, you will be asked about your experience and skills and be expected to demonstrate them before we wave you farewell. You will experience the level of attention we give to solo hirers at that point when we do everything to ensure people are as well informed as they can be. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 10 hours ago, BroadAmbition said: Thank goodness we have 'B.A' tucked up in Richo's wet shed, ready to go 24/7 solo, solo with dog, solo with wife or multiple crew members onboard. However - The genie out now out of the lamp, how long before insurers state no solo cruising on private craft? Griff My insurance says no solo cruising at night, anyone else have that on their private policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, 40something said: My insurance says no solo cruising at night, anyone else have that on their private policy? No, my only restriction, in an open boat, is in being limited to 'up to twelve miles offshore'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 43 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said: Risks Business risk assessments are not for this purpose. They are peculiar to each business and each will handle things in a different way. None of this is for public consumption and as RSF says above, no company would make any such internal document public. Solo sailors need to consider the potential dangers of going out alone in varying different types of vessel / conditions and so on. None of it is rocket science; it's all about the risks of injury and incident and how you plan to reduce them by guidance and mitigate them through implementing change. Anyone can do one for anything; boiling a kettle for instance where the risks would include injury from boiling water, steam, electrocution or burning, spillages / slippages. Probably things missing from that list... If you solo with Freedom, you will be asked about your experience and skills and be expected to demonstrate them before we wave you farewell. You will experience the level of attention we give to solo hirers at that point when we do everything to ensure people are as well informed as they can be. Thanks for a thorough reply, I do have some more thoughts that I would like to share but I've run out of time to go sailing in tropical waters; sea temp 22C so no risk of hypothermia if someone falls in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranworthbreeze Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 hour ago, rightsaidfred said: I am not aware of any business that publishes its health and safety risk assessment or any other internal assessments, Fred Hello Fred, They may not have to publish it but it may have to be available for inspection by their suppliers and certainly would have to be if they were BSI registered. Sadly these days we live in a tick box world, Regards Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightsaidfred Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 hour ago, ranworthbreeze said: Hello Fred, They may not have to publish it but it may have to be available for inspection by their suppliers and certainly would have to be if they were BSI registered. Sadly these days we live in a tick box world, Regards Alan Quite right Alan its one of the sins I was responsible for, the big difference there is that its all part of a commercial transaction that is regulated. Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 2 hours ago, ranworthbreeze said: Hello Fred, They may not have to publish it but it may have to be available for inspection by their suppliers and certainly would have to be if they were BSI registered. Sadly these days we live in a tick box world, Regards Alan Sorry and i admit that this is being a bit of a PIA but should it not be available to hirers who ask for a risk assessment of what they are about to hire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Please my criticism of this policy is aimed at those yards who cancelled bookings made in good faith. Any comments in respect of risk assessment are aimed at "the system in general" and not towards any individual boatyard or boatyards.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanessan Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, Philosophical said: Sorry and i admit that this is being a bit of a PIA but should it not be available to hirers who ask for a risk assessment of what they are about to hire? Are there not two sorts of risk assessments, one for the boatyard that is hiring the boat out and the second for the hirer? ie what risk is the Boatyard taking hiring the boat to you and what risks are you taking whilst out on the water. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siddy Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, vanessan said: Are there not two sorts of risk assessments, one for the boatyard that is hiring the boat out and the second for the hirer? ie what risk is the Boatyard taking hiring the boat to you and what risks are you taking whilst out on the water. HI, the hirer's RA Risk Assessment would pass the risk as ok everytime because you'd use 'common sence' in your assessment. There is no room in Elf and Safety for `common sence` in the world today. It's what if and whats the outcome. I have to check RA's and also write them for tasks. Every job we do has a RA for the task. 2 examples below. I go to the toilet, I wash my hands and return to work like every member of staff. I go to the toilet to test the water temp by putting a probe under the running water I have a RA to fill in first. Welcome to where their's a blame their's someone chasing a pot of cash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, vanessan said: Are there not two sorts of risk assessments, one for the boatyard that is hiring the boat out and the second for the hirer? ie what risk is the Boatyard taking hiring the boat to you and what risks are you taking whilst out on the water. Yes, the risk to the hirer is part of their general commercial risk, again being a PIA in this litigious society in which we live the risk to hirers could be made to be endless and this is where my criticism of the system lies; a risk assessment can be used to support or kill an activity to hide other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.