What Might We Reasonably Expect Of Nbn?

[Maxwellian]

10 hours ago, Maxwellian said:

One thing to consider,  where are the younger participants coming from! Us oldies and those oldies are not bucking science and getting younger. We want to leave a legacy for them to use.

Did not mention the age group of user on Facebook in my post. My mother is ancient too and uses it all the time to keep up with myself her grandkids and her great grand kids. She said she started as I never tell her any gossip.

If we were to conduct a demographic survey on the NBN Forum I dread to think how high the average age would be. An awful lot higher than Facebook I suspect.

[MauriceMynah]

Dammit Ian you're a young whippersnapper aint you? 

[Maxwellian]

15 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Dammit Ian you're a young whippersnapper aint you? 

All comparative MM. I was deeply shocked to find out I was older than a common acquaintance of ours. Deeply shocked, considering how much younger than him I look!

[Timbo]

I will have you know I have the firm, but muscular, body of a thirty year old. @Wildfuzz says I have to stop taking exhibits from the museum!.

 

[FairTmiddlin]

4 minutes ago, Timbo said:

I will have you know I have the firm, but muscular, body of a thirty year old. @Wildfuzz says I have to stop taking exhibits from the museum!.

 

Timbo

Shop mannequins

they're easier to take, they usually come dressed too

[Cockatoo]

I originally posted this inb the Reedham Ferry thread but I reckon it could do with repeating here:

 

I see a lot of posts blaming Facebook but the fact is that Facebook groups are moderated by the founder of the group and whoever (s)he appoints. Sanctions range from deleting posts, muting members, deleting them from the group and finally banning them.

 

What is important, it seems to me, is the Facebook needs to be moderated to the same standard as the forum for continuity.

[Wussername]

19 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

I originally posted this inb the Reedham Ferry thread but I reckon it could do with repeating here:

 

I see a lot of posts blaming Facebook but the fact is that Facebook groups are moderated by the founder of the group and whoever (s)he appoints. Sanctions range from deleting posts, muting members, deleting them from the group and finally banning them.

 

What is important, it seems to me, is the Facebook needs to be moderated to the same standard as the forum for continuity.

May I ask who are the moderators on Facebook.

Andrew

[Meantime]

28 minutes ago, Wussername said:

May I ask who are the moderators on Facebook.

Andrew

There are 4 x admin and 5 x moderators on the NBN Facebook group. I don't really feel comfortable naming them on here as they have all used their full names on Facebook which in nearly all cases doesn't tie up with their forum name, so really down to them if they want to say who they are. 

Edited to add: and 2339 members

[Meantime]

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned in the discussion about the FB group, is that it is another way of disseminating information if the main forum goes down suddenly, either as a result of an unplanned outage, or even if planned maintenance goes wrong.

[grendel]

56 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

What is important, it seems to me, is the Facebook needs to be moderated to the same standard as the forum for continuity.

we are looking at this at the moment.

[Wussername]

18 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

There are 4 x admin and 5 x moderators on the NBN Facebook group. I don't really feel comfortable naming them on here as they have all used their full names on Facebook which in nearly all cases doesn't tie up with their forum name, so really down to them if they want to say who they are. 

Edited to add: and 2339 members

 

Your reply would seem to suggest that you are aware.

That I believe adds to the lack of transparency and credibility and accountability of Facebook.

We provide our names, they  do not. But no real issue i suppose in the scheme of things, I do not wish to escalate this any further unless it impacts against the forum which to my mind is paramount towards the future and advancement of the Broads as we remember it and as to its future.

Facebook will not contribute to that vision.

[Meantime]

24 minutes ago, Wussername said:

 

Your reply would seem to suggest that you are aware.

That I believe adds to the lack of transparency and credibility and accountability of Facebook.

We provide our names, they  do not. But no real issue i suppose in the scheme of things, I do not wish to escalate this any further unless it impacts against the forum which to my mind is paramount towards the future and advancement of the Broads as we remember it and as to its future.

Facebook will not contribute to that vision.

I may have inadvertently caused some confusion?

I know no more than is openly available to all members of the Facebook NBN group. It is common on Facebook to open an account in your own full given name. You can then use this Facebook account to join "groups" of which one of them is the NBN group. The moderators and admin will have done the same. It is obvious by some of the Avatar pictures who they may be on this forum, but I don't feel it is my place to put a full name to any of the forum account names. For the record my Facebook account is my full name and not EastCoastIPA. I think this is also true for the majority of the Facebook members. There is no great conspiracy in that, but it is more about the way the two different systems work. If friends or family want to find me on Facebook they are going to know my name, rather than some obscure forum nickname. You don't have separate Facebook names for different groups you may join, although I guess it is possible to create more than one Facebook account if one really wanted to. I would guess on this forum about 10% of people use their real name, whereas it is possibly greater than 90% on Facebook.

On the other hand most of the forum members here, myself included use a nickname, as do you yourself Wussername. So it is sort of the reverse to what you implied when you said we provide our names.

I used to use my name on here many moons ago, but decided for a variety of reasons not to use that account anymore and therefore ECIPA was born. As a result of that I wouldn't appreciate anyone who put two and two together linking my Facebook account which has my full name, with this forum account. I am simply affording that same courtesy to all other Facebook members, as indeed I would if I recognised a member of another forum and they used different names on different forums. Some may note that ECIPA does not appear on any other Broads forum, yet it should be obvious from my posts that I do belong to other forums.

[Wussername]

7 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

I may have inadvertently caused some confusion?

I know no more than is openly available to all members of the Facebook NBN group. It is common on Facebook to open an account in your own full given name. You can then use this Facebook account to join "groups" of which one of them is the NBN group. The moderators and admin will have done the same. It is obvious by some of the Avatar pictures who they may be on this forum, but I don't feel it is my place to put a full name to any of the forum account names. For the record my Facebook account is my full name and not EastCoastIPA. I think this is also true for the majority of the Facebook members. There is no great conspiracy in that, but it is more about the way the two different systems work. If friends or family want to find me on Facebook they are going to know my name, rather than some obscure forum nickname. You don't have separate Facebook names for different groups you may join, although I guess it is possible to create more than one Facebook account if one really wanted to. I would guess on this forum about 10% of people use their real name, whereas it is possibly greater than 90% on Facebook.

On the other hand most of the forum members here, myself included use a nickname, as do you yourself Wussername. So it is sort of the reverse to what you implied when you said we provide our names.

I used to use my name on here many moons ago, but decided for a variety of reasons not to use that account anymore and therefore ECIPA was born. As a result of that I wouldn't appreciate anyone who put two and two together linking my Facebook account which has my full name, with this forum account. I am simply affording that same courtesy to all other Facebook members, as indeed I would if I recognised a member of another forum and they used different names on different forums. Some may note that ECIPA does not appear on any other Broads forum, yet it should be obvious from my posts that I do belong to other forums.

ECIPA. You must plough your own furrow. For me all I see is smoke and mirrors. Perhaps I am of a different generation and would like to leave it as that.

It has served me well in the past.

Andrew

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Wussername said:

Your reply would seem to suggest that you are aware.

I agree. For some time now you have been talking more like a moderator than a normal member. I don't expect an answer to that - in case I contravene someone or another's "rules".

1 hour ago, EastCoastIPA said:

I used to use my name on here many moons ago, but decided for a variety of reasons not to use that account anymore and therefore ECIPA was born. As a result of that I wouldn't appreciate anyone who put two and two together linking my Facebook account which has my full name, with this forum account. I am simply affording that same courtesy to all other Facebook members, as indeed I would if I recognised a member of another forum and they used different names on different forums. Some may note that ECIPA does not appear on any other Broads forum, yet it should be obvious from my posts that I do belong to other forums.

What on Earth is all this about? And why on Earth is it considered necessary? Unless your original "name" was George Smiley I just don't see the point of hiding behind trees in case someone sees you coming?

My remarks are not personal - but how can we have a credible, valuable and worthwhile debate about the Broads under such conditions of fearful insistence on vaguely hidden identity? If people are not prepared to stand up for what they say, they shouldn't be saying it.

Leaving that aside (as I don't look for an answer), I notice you quote the NBN Facebook group as having 2339 members. We are told that this forum has around 2500. And yet only 277 at last count, are full members with access to all areas and an eligibility to future voting rights. So only 10% of the total.

What about Facebook? What is the status of all these members of the group? Are they full members? Is there a difference? and do they have access to all areas of this group?

Maybe my prediction was not so wide of the mark - is the tail now wagging the dog?

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

2 hours ago, Wussername said:

Your reply would seem to suggest that you are aware.

I agree. For some time now you have been talking more like a moderator than a normal member. I don't expect an answer to that - in case I contravene someone or another's "rules".

As I said to Wussername, it is no more and no less than what a member can see on Facebook. If you have joined the Facebook group you can view the full list of members, and admin and moderators, including the amount of each. I'm really beginning to regret answering a simple question earlier on now!.

As for your moderator comment, I have no idea. I talk for myself as a member and nothing else.

[Meantime]

13 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

What on Earth is all this about? And why on Earth is it considered necessary? Unless your original "name" was George Smiley I just don't see the point of hiding behind trees in case someone sees you coming?

My remarks are not personal - but how can we have a credible, valuable and worthwhile debate about the Broads under such conditions of fearful insistence on vaguely hidden identity? If people are not prepared to stand up for what they say, they shouldn't be saying it.

I say no more than the fact that the vast majority of members on here and indeed most forums choose not to use their real name. That ironically is one of the big differences between here and Facebook. That is their choice and one I have now made. If the forum made it a rule that members must use their real name, then I would abide by that, as long as everyone else did. Whilst there is a free choice I will exercise it as does probably 90% of this forum.

I can and still do have credible debates on this forum despite using the name ECIPA.

[Timbo]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

What about Facebook? What is the status of all these members of the group? Are they full members? Is there a difference? and do they have access to all areas of this group?

Maybe my prediction was not so wide of the mark - is the tail now wagging the dog?

 

Facebook Members are considered equally as members of the NBN in most respects Vaughan. However, we do not count the Facebook numbers in collecting data for 'active members' as we cannot verify that data. Jonzo set the precedent that we keep our membership lists and figures used for advertising sponsors to verifiable active members and not include inactive members. Personally, I'd much rather say that we have 2,500 active members than claim a membership in the tens of thousands to have in reality a couple of dozen members who read the forum.

At the moment unless they join the forum and become full members, Facebook members do not have access to all areas of the NBN. Once the constitution rolls out, then they can opt-in to become an Association member just like everyone else and have a say, but they will still have to become full members of the forum to gain full access to the forum. As I said before, the forum will not change.

As for tails wagging dogs...not on my watch. Remember Barbara Woodhouse? 

[rightsaidfred]

13 hours ago, EastCoastIPA said:

I may have inadvertently caused some confusion?

I know no more than is openly available to all members of the Facebook NBN group. It is common on Facebook to open an account in your own full given name. You can then use this Facebook account to join "groups" of which one of them is the NBN group. The moderators and admin will have done the same. It is obvious by some of the Avatar pictures who they may be on this forum, but I don't feel it is my place to put a full name to any of the forum account names. For the record my Facebook account is my full name and not EastCoastIPA. I think this is also true for the majority of the Facebook members. There is no great conspiracy in that, but it is more about the way the two different systems work. If friends or family want to find me on Facebook they are going to know my name, rather than some obscure forum nickname. You don't have separate Facebook names for different groups you may join, although I guess it is possible to create more than one Facebook account if one really wanted to. I would guess on this forum about 10% of people use their real name, whereas it is possibly greater than 90% on Facebook.

On the other hand most of the forum members here, myself included use a nickname, as do you yourself Wussername. So it is sort of the reverse to what you implied when you said we provide our names.

I used to use my name on here many moons ago, but decided for a variety of reasons not to use that account anymore and therefore ECIPA was born. As a result of that I wouldn't appreciate anyone who put two and two together linking my Facebook account which has my full name, with this forum account. I am simply affording that same courtesy to all other Facebook members, as indeed I would if I recognised a member of another forum and they used different names on different forums. Some may note that ECIPA does not appear on any other Broads forum, yet it should be obvious from my posts that I do belong to other forums.

Curiosity has got the better of me here so I tried joining facebook , as I have already said I have an aversion to all those platforms purely my choice and for my own reasons so I created a false account, all I had to do was create a Google email account (plenty of other options are available) using a VPN (Opera)  then create a facebook account in the same name, I then made up a suitable profile, no checks or verification were made and  account was opened so while the vast majority on there are genuine it is quite simple for any trolls to be anonymous, now I still don't know all the workings of facebook and the security measures but knowing how some family members just accept people as friends it opens up a whole can of worms for me.

As for using a  pseudonym on the forum or elsewhere I do it as I imagine most do to preserve my privacy and anonymity when it comes to trolls etc and my security with the types who think as they are anonymous  they can take revenge on your property or family if they cant win an argument by legitimate means.

Some may think I am being paranoid here but living in London this is not an uncommon scenario and I have experience of this through extended family, so while others are free to do as they choose I won`t have anything to do with the facebook group or the forum if they become to closely aligned.

Fred

[oldgregg]

23 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Some may think I am being paranoid here but living in London this is not an uncommon scenario and I have experience of this through extended family, so while others are free to do as they choose I won`t have anything to do with the facebook group or the forum if they become to closely aligned.

Hi Fred

I don't think it's a case of 'aligning' them in the sense that you have suggested here - More that the FB group is to come under the same governance and processes that are in force here. The two will never be directly 'plugged in' as it were, as that isn't possible and isn't what the team are trying to achieve.

[Meantime]

12 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I agree. For some time now you have been talking more like a moderator than a normal member. I don't expect an answer to that - in case I contravene someone or another's "rules". 

Some 12 hours later I still find myself annoyed and going back to this comment. I am not a moderator, and have not asked to be, or been asked to be. Therefore that sentence is purely your "opinion" of my posting style, which you have now made me question and review. An opinion you may have been better of keeping to yourself, or sharing via pm. I quite often don't like late night postings, which is why I didn't share my full feelings about your post at the time, but in the morning I still feel as uncomfortable with your comment as I did last night!

[Vaughan]

 

 

15 hours ago, EastCoastIPA said:

There are 4 x admin and 5 x moderators on the NBN Facebook group. I don't really feel comfortable naming them on here as they have all used their full names on Facebook which in nearly all cases doesn't tie up with their forum name, so really down to them if they want to say who they are. 

Edited to add: and 2339 members

In which case I apologise.

Judging by this previous post you seemed rather well informed on the subject. I know nothing of Facebook, so I can only be guided by what others such as yourself, tell me.

As to late night posts I can see nothing in what I said yesterday evening that I would not still say this morning. 

I thank Timbo for his reply but I have to say I am extremely concerned still, about this link between the two outlets and I don't seem to be the only one, judging by what others have posted. I suppose, like Old Wussername, I come from an age where discipline in the written word was more important than it seems to be now. That also made it a great deal easier to communicate, without being mis-understood!

This is the only forum, on any subject, that I have anything to do with and I value it because of all the qualities that make it stand out above the crowd. I didn't join it just to see it married to Facebook and I dread the thought that its standards will now just come down to their level. If they have not started to already. We have a situation where there seems to be as much, if not more activity there in discussions of news items, and blogs about the Broads, which are never posted or shared on this forum. That is mostly what I meant by "is the tail wagging the dog?"

I remain very much in favour of the proposed changes to our constitution and they are obviously necessary to give us legal status and security into the future. But I am fearful of our affiliation with Facebook. It may be seen as a way to get young people to join the forum but the Old Coots' Club need the forum too. We enjoy the forum because it is better than Facebook. Please let's keep it like that.

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

In which case I apologise.

Judging by this previous post you seemed rather well informed on the subject. I know nothing of Facebook, so I can only be guided by what others such as yourself, tell me.

As to late night posts I can see nothing in what I said yesterday evening that I would not still say this morning. 

Apology accepted.

There was the irony, I was answering questions and informing for those that did not know too much about Facebook, only to then be seen as having some inside knowledge

By late night posts, I simply meant that I counted to ten and left it till the morning to see if I still felt aggrieved enough to reply, rather than escalate matters at the time.

Never mind lets put it to bed now

[MauriceMynah]

Yeee Haaa … The Mynah wades in.

The alliance between the forum and facebook has been about for some years now. Has it destroyed the forum? No! Will it? Also No!.

I use a forum name as although many active users here know my real name and my boat name, there isn't enough information for the average smack-head to use to get my address and know when the house will be empty. Paranoid? Maybe, but I'd rather be paranoid and safe over open and vulnerable. My choice and I'm happy with it.

15 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

We enjoy the forum because it is better than Facebook. Please let's keep it like that.

The forum isn't "better" than facebook, it's just different from facebook. each has it's own place. Like you I prefer the forum to facebook, but when this forum had a hiccup, where do you think the best place was to go to, to fin out what was happening?

If the members here and the facebook members were to ask themselves why they were members, the answers would be very similar. (Except for me... I'm just here to irritate people) So where's the problem?

[grendel]

Vaughan, Facebook and the forum are separate entities, sharing a common name, run by the same moderators and staff, and soon facebook will be run under the same TOS as we use here. they are just different forms of the same thing. if you want content to appear over on facebook, then you have to post it there separately, no content will be automatically shared between the two.

Much like you dont do facebook, some facebook users dont do forums.

we will advertise the presence  of the forum to facebook members, to try and encourage them here to post, but essentially the two stand separately.

[Wussername]

29 minutes ago, grendel said:

..........., run by the same moderators and staff, and soon facebook will be run under the same TOS as we use here.

I believe that the comment above should go a long way in having a calming influence on the doubts and suspicion that many of my generation have harboured in the light of adverse articles of late in the media towards Facebook and the amazing use of Twitter by a well known gentleman.

It is good to know that there will be a measured control and discipline across both platforms.

I for one don't always like it or agree with it but it is so very important within our community in the long term.

Andrew