Car Talk

[oldgregg]

They're the equivalent of piston rings... Rotary engines are very different!

[FairTmiddlin]

Apex seals ringed

Basically straight piston rings

[Cockatoo]

What they said

Here's a little video that shows them being installed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aio1hlnxfoh7cmt/apex.mp4?dl=0

 

[ChrisB]

My late father knew everything there was to know about seals! Stupidly he fancied a change having had two BMW 2002 the later being a tii and bought a new NSU ro80! The seal trouble began day one virtually. The car was never on the road. The garage bought the car back in the end as they were part of a group that sold  other makes and they were going to loose our company car business if they had not.

For our younger readers who do not know what I am talking about it is one of these:

 

[annv]

Thanks guys learn something every day John

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ChrisB said:

For our younger readers who do not know what I am talking about it is one of these

Much appreciated Sir, thank you

[stumpy]

A good mate had a Ro80 - when the engine went he somehow shoehorned a Corsair V4 into it - oh what fun we had!

[VetChugger]

My brother had a 2.2 litre Firenza sport with twin carbs. For the time it was frighteningly rapid and I was always relieved to survive the journeys! Lovely looking coupe though and was marvelled at because it had six or seven dials on the dash!

[ChrisB]

8 hours ago, stumpy said:

A good mate had a Ro80 - when the engine went he somehow shoehorned a Corsair V4 into it - oh what fun we had!

A lot of that went on years ago. There were garages who specialised in putting V6 Fords and Rover V8s into Triumph Stags.

[oldgregg]

2 hours ago, ChrisB said:

A lot of that went on years ago. There were garages who specialised in putting V6 Fords and Rover V8s into Triumph Stags.

Probably a good idea, given how bad the original engine was.

[ChrisB]

3 hours ago, oldgregg said:

Probably a good idea, given how bad the original engine was.

Yes, I think it was basically two dolomite engines, so it had a rubbish foundation.

[oldgregg]

6 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Yes, I think it was basically two dolomite engines, so it had a rubbish foundation.

Yeah, not great but I think the cooling was the real problem. 

[Cockatoo]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

Yeah, not great but I think the cooling was the real problem. 

Had they not had the weak waterpump problem they probably would have had the valve guide problems the Dolomite Sprint had.

As it was I think they died from overheating before the valve guides could wear out.

[Paul]

1 hour ago, ChrisB said:

Yes, I think it was basically two dolomite engines, so it had a rubbish foundation

It's a common misconception that two existing Dolomite engines were "glued" together to make the Stag's V8. In fact the engine was a bespoke design and the first of an expected new family of Triumph engines that would be built to the same design in 4, 6 and 8 cylinder versions therefore sharing many of the parts and mechanical processes. The 4 cylinder version was fitted to the Dolomite after the Stag had gone on sale, so it is more accurate to say that the Dolomite used half of the Stag V8.

Sadly, the need to share components meant the V8 was a compromise design and had inherent flaws of which the coolant issue is perhaps the most well known but not the only one. Triumph dropped the fuel injection from it's previous engines in favour of twin carburettors, largely due to concerns over emissions in the US, which was it's intended main market and the carburettors were very troublesome. Keeping them balanced and well tuned was a near full time job.  Many were retro fitted eith EFi.

Triumph new the engine was no good but pressed ahead with it anyway. BL bosses had instructed them to look at using the Rover V8 which was an american design and well proven however Rover, despite being part of the BL family did not want to supply the engine and claimed they did not have sufficient capacity. In turn, Triumph did not want to use the engine and claimed it would not fit the Stag. That latter point was disproved, in as much as the engine would physically fit in the bay as many Stags were re-engined with the Rover V8 however the much heavier weight of the Rover lump does have a disasterous effect on the car's handling. We had a name for Rover engined Stags in the owners club, we called them b4st++ds.  

 

[ChrisB]

The Rover engine was an end of life puchase from GMs Buick Division I believe. As well as being fitted to three Rover models I can think of,it was supplied to Morgan, MG, Land Rover for two models and I think TVR had them as well. You surprise me about the weight because I always thought it was an aluminium engine. It was not immune to upper end problems causing clattering and oil consumption. My Father was in construction and he had a number of SWB Land Rovers fitted with V8s around 86/87, might be a little earlier and they were not without issues.

[oldgregg]

Yep - The Americans didn't really want it as it had been unreliable and there were better lumps available. The British motor industry had no better answer though, so it was improved and used in all sorts of things and bored out to 5 litres by TVR. I've even seen a speedboat with a Rover V8 in it.

Land Rover eventually switched to Jaguar lumps during their period under Ford ownership, and Rover stopped using it because the 800 was basically a Honda and so used their V6.

I too thought it was relatively light, though, and that that was the reason it became the weapon of choice for a lot of larger cars of the time? I guess perhaps it was lighter than the alternatives, but still a bit of a lump?

As it happens, I was watching a doco on YouTube last week about the SD1 and it had a bit of a history of the 'Rover' V8.

[grendel]

To fit nicely into this thread of car talk, my 17 year old volvo with 174,000 miles had its MOT today, - It passed with just a few advisories -

Apparently the orange coloured bulbs can fade, I will need 3 new ones to clear that advisory, the rest of the issues were all suspension, but only keep an eye on items at the moment, from rusting rear coil springs to misting from the front shocks, plus slight play from the rear anti sway bar linkage ball joint, nothing unexpected on a car of this mileage, nothing that doesnt need just keeping an eye on and maybe replacing before next year if it deteriorates.

[FairTmiddlin]

4 hours ago, oldgregg said:

Yep - The Americans didn't really want it as it had been unreliable and there were better lumps available. The British motor industry had no better answer though, so it was improved and used in all sorts of things and bored out to 5 litres by TVR. I've even seen a speedboat with a Rover V8 in it.

Land Rover eventually switched to Jaguar lumps during their period under Ford ownership, and Rover stopped using it because the 800 was basically a Honda and so used their V6.

I too thought it was relatively light, though, and that that was the reason it became the weapon of choice for a lot of larger cars of the time? I guess perhaps it was lighter than the alternatives, but still a bit of a lump?

As it happens, I was watching a doco on YouTube last week about the SD1 and it had a bit of a history of the 'Rover' V8.

And don't forget the Rover SD 2600 same lump as the V8, but they redesigned the engine by chopping off two barrels.

Problems with vibration ensued and they didn't sell many of them as they had such a bad reputation.

A lot of the problems with the 2500 PI Triumph engines were down to the casting shop. Production was so rushed, that a lot of the sand in the moulds for the block and head never got flushed out, so stayed in the cavities of the engine often blocking small holes where it had conglomerated with antifreeze.

[oldgregg]

Those sound very much like British Leyland problems! Would have made more sense to re-bore the V8 surely?

[grendel]

so like a good Robin (attention to small details), I went and purchased new indicator bulbs, all round, changing the rear ones wasnt too bad, just take off the speaker covers, unclip the rear speakers and then remove the bulb holder, and put in a new bulb.

the front wasnt as simple, I could see them, but there seemed no way to get there, they were buried behind things, with cable looms and everything in between,  the passenger side seemed hard enough (that was the only one not flagged in the MOT) but the driver side was even worse access with the washer bottle filler neck also in the way.

so Last night I found some youtube videos on how to change the bulb, general consensus was remove the back cover off the headlight cluster giving you an extra inch of space, but then I spotted a comment underneath, someone said remove the washer bottle filler neck, its held in place by 1 screw, and is a push fit into the pipework below, so when I arrived at work this morning, that is what I did, it gives great access, so in a short time the bulb was changed.

the old bulb in that housing was the worst of all of the bulbs I had to replace, its orange coating looked like a tiger loaf, all cracked and crazed, no wonder then that the orange wasnt orange enough.

so the moral of the story is, if your indicators are the clear lens sort, with coloured bulbs, and they dont seem to be orange enough, it may be time for some new ones.

[grendel]

just to be complete, I went out at lunch time and did the last remaining bulb (the one that didnt get an advisory) and that wasnt as bad as the other front one, but was worse than the two rear bulbs that although a lighter shade, had not crazed.

so if you do have orange bulbs in your car, it might be worth checking them to make sure they are still properly orange.

[annv]

You can get a small pot with brush to repaint them if you wish lot cheaper. John

[stumpy]

On 09/04/2019 at 20:45, FairTmiddlin said:

And don't forget the Rover SD 2600 same lump as the V8, but they redesigned the engine by chopping off two barrels.

Don't think so - I had a succession of SD1s, the 2.6 was a straight six. The fun part was balancing the pair of SUs. (And replacing knackered electrical gadgets). There used to be a great emporium out by Norwich airport that specialised in tuning V8s that bought in SD1s for the engines and piled the carcasses 'out the back' who were happy to let you scavenge about - I once got an entire electric sunroof for a tenner there!

[PCL023]

As was the 2.3 (2300) a straight  6. Poor or lack of servicing did for a lot of these as it was the small one way valve in the head that would get blocked due to dirty old oil. The idea was once you switched the engine off oil would stay in the cam area. 

It had the opposite effect when oil services were missed. 

The v8 was a very. strong unit all alloy, it was some of the things that got bolted to it that were not so good. 

 

[oldgregg]

55 minutes ago, stumpy said:

There used to be a great emporium out by Norwich airport that specialised in tuning V8s that bought in SD1s for the engines and piled the carcasses 'out the back' who were happy to let you scavenge about - I once got an entire electric sunroof for a tenner there!

That would be RPI Engineering in Horsford http://www.v8engines.com/

And yeah I think my Grandad's old SD1 2300 was a straight six.

I'd love a restored V8 Vanden Plas EFI or Vitesse, proper 80's car.