June 16th 2020

[Poppy]

4 minutes ago, grendel said:

who sets the limit though - 5 minutes walk, 20 minutes walk, 5 miles 10 miles, 50 miles, 100 miles . I think that when restrictions start to be lifted, the limits should be set fairly low, then slowly lifted to de restrict movement, unless the govenment set strict distances travel is allowed then you are going to get people who will stretch the boundaries past breaking point, this is one area i dont think should be left open to interpretation.

And who sets the  the fairly straight forwards list of what is permitted ?   A drive to somewhere 'for exercise'  may or may not be permitted, depending on how long the exercise is, Then of course there's the chance of an accident. Meanwhile it seems you can throw yoyr leg over the crossbar andcycle all day, should that be your 'bag'. And we all know that cyclists don't have accidents, don't we ?

[MauriceMynah]

"Who sets the limits?" Bloody good question, but whoever it is those limits will be found to be unreasonable by a vociferous minority determined to show that they know better.

Even though I no longer make my own diesel, I still belong to a forum on that subject. I mention this because there is a strange similarity with this situation.

The Government imposed limits as to how much the home diesel producers could make. It had to be modified to allow for those who just filtered used frying oil to fuel their cars. Those limits still apply, but whilst the spirit of the law is known, the wording is far from clear. this has to be the case as to put it in writing would create loopholes.

The spirit is that people should not make more than they need. The amount that people needed was set at 2500 litres in a rolling year. That sounds fair enough. 

If I had a processor I could make 2500 litres a year and that would run my car, my boat and my sisters car. Great spirit of the law satisfied.

It was suggested to me that I could mount my processing plant on a trailer and make diesel for other people. No, it was deemed that I could make only 2500 litres.

OK, then how about letting other people come to my shed and make their own. No, it was deemed that that would constitute a syndicate, and that the limit would then have to be shared by that syndicate.

So what about everybody buying a processor, putting them all in a barn and employing someone to make the fuel, No. The barn would then be the limiting factor, 2500 litres per property.

The number of versions of ways around the limits were discussed, until that is, the government started discussing the whole thing and considered charging full fuel duty on all home made fuel.

These governmental discussions stopped at roughly the same time the home fuel makers stopped trying to find ways around the limits.

 

I see this discussion about what is and what isn't allowed as sounding very similar, though far more important.

Rules are,

Stay at home.

Only go out when essential.

Only exercise if you have to. 

Accepted forms of exercise outside your home boundaries are walking (running etc.) and cycling.

Make the government waste time sorting out other permitted forms of exercise should just cause the government to say no outside exercise is permitted at all. 

 

 

[grendel]

32 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

"Who sets the limits?" Bloody good question, but whoever it is those limits will be found to be unreasonable by a vociferous minority determined to show that they know better.

Even though I no longer make my own diesel, I still belong to a forum on that subject. I mention this because there is a strange similarity with this situation.

The Government imposed limits as to how much the home diesel producers could make. It had to be modified to allow for those who just filtered used frying oil to fuel their cars. Those limits still apply, but whilst the spirit of the law is known, the wording is far from clear. this has to be the case as to put it in writing would create loopholes.

The spirit is that people should not make more than they need. The amount that people needed was set at 2500 litres in a rolling year. That sounds fair enough. 

If I had a processor I could make 2500 litres a year and that would run my car, my boat and my sisters car. Great spirit of the law satisfied.

It was suggested to me that I could mount my processing plant on a trailer and make diesel for other people. No, it was deemed that I could make only 2500 litres.

OK, then how about letting other people come to my shed and make their own. No, it was deemed that that would constitute a syndicate, and that the limit would then have to be shared by that syndicate.

So what about everybody buying a processor, putting them all in a barn and employing someone to make the fuel, No. The barn would then be the limiting factor, 2500 litres per property.

The number of versions of ways around the limits were discussed, until that is, the government started discussing the whole thing and considered charging full fuel duty on all home made fuel.

These governmental discussions stopped at roughly the same time the home fuel makers stopped trying to find ways around the limits.

 

I see this discussion about what is and what isn't allowed as sounding very similar, though far more important.

Rules are,

Stay at home.

Only go out when essential.

Only exercise if you have to. 

Accepted forms of exercise outside your home boundaries are walking (running etc.) and cycling.

Make the government waste time sorting out other permitted forms of exercise should just cause the government to say no outside exercise is permitted at all. 

 

 

sometimes the forum idiots speak more sense than the supposedly sensible people.

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, grendel said:

Accepted forms of exercise outside your home boundaries are walking (running etc.) and cycling.

Thus it would also be quite reasonable and fair to allow . . . . . . . . . . . 

[JennyMorgan]

Meanwhile in America:

 

[Smoggy]

10 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Meanwhile in America:

 

Is that while they inject disinfectant and shine a very bright light into a suitable orifice?

[webntweb]

 . . . and New Jersey have had nearly a tenth of all the deaths in the 50 states of the USA.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Is that while they inject disinfectant and shine a very bright light into a suitable orifice?

Because I can no longer attend the gym I have started to inject Mr Muscle....

[grendel]

3 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Accepted forms of exercise outside your home boundaries are walking (running etc.) and cycling.

Actually it was MM said that, i quoted it, but i will note it only says walking running and cycling,

 

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Thus it would also be quite reasonable and fair to allow . . . . . . . . . . . 

it doesnt go on to say anything else would be reasonably allowed.

and while you might reasonably interpret it how you wished, mr plod might feel differently about it.

[ExSurveyor]

I do despair of people wanting to expand the list of what can be done, Watch the news, see the dreadful numbers of people dying, the rising numbers of frontline staff dying, the huge financial cost of these measures, then ask your yourself if your 'want' is worth it.

Many people have given up employment, businesses built over many years and visiting family to follow government advice and direction. Surely you can manage to go without your preferred past time for a while longer.

I do admire those that live minutes from the broads for showing restraint  and not visiting their boats despite the temptation.

Being realistic, it has only been five weeks of lock down, not five months.

[rightsaidfred]

I only have one thing to add if you and those you love are alive and well then be thankful and stop trying to find ways to cheat the system and create problems for those who are putting themselves at risk for our benefit.

Fred

[JennyMorgan]

I'm not advocating cheating, just suggesting that there be a reasonable interpretation of the guidelines by those enforcing them. Both the Angling Trust and the RYA have made reasonable suggestions, I don't see why there should be a problem with that. Lock-down should be lock-down but clearly its not, the door has been opened ajar.  That considered there really shouldn't be a  problem with the various agencies being reasonable and fair.  

Just for the record I have three daughters on the front-line, two now having direct contact with virus victims, plus a wife who is extremely vulnerable, meaning that I have to be aware, and I am. For the sake of my wife It would be unreasonable for me to be otherwise. One of my girls is an NHS senior pharmacist working on the wards, another is an NHS carer and the third is a carer in a care home which has now got it's first victim, a man with dementia and absolutely no understanding of what is happening to him or the meaning of isolation. Two of the three are mums thus there is a very real risk that they will bring the virus home with them to their children. My wife and I are in absolute isolation from our family, that is hard. Please don't think that I don't have an appreciation of the facts.

[grendel]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Both the Angling Trust and the RYA have made reasonable suggestions

That are undoubtedly being considered by the government - hopefully for implementation once restrictions start lifting.

Thus at the present time they are no excuse to flout the lockdown.

[floydraser]

Every organisation wants to be seen to be ticking the box that says that is was supporting it's members during this time. They all appear to be saying the same thing: "We are doing our best for you. We understand your frustration. We will ask the government for to consider our case." They just want to be seen to be doing something.

We are losing around half the number of victims of the Titanic EVERY DAY.

[rightsaidfred]

10 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

I'm not advocating cheating, just suggesting that there be a reasonable interpretation of the guidelines by those enforcing them. Both the Angling Trust and the RYA have made reasonable suggestions, I don't see why there should be a problem with that. Lock-down should be lock-down but clearly its not, the door has been opened ajar.  That considered there really shouldn't be a  problem with the various agencies being reasonable and fair.  

Just for the record I have three daughters on the front-line, two now having direct contact with virus victims, plus a wife who is extremely vulnerable, meaning that I have to be aware, and I am. For the sake of my wife It would be unreasonable for me to be otherwise. One of my girls is an NHS senior pharmacist working on the wards, another is an NHS carer and the third is a carer in a care home which has now got it's first victim, a man with dementia and absolutely no understanding of what is happening to him or the meaning of isolation. Two of the three are mums thus there is a very real risk that they will bring the virus home with them to their children. My wife and I are in absolute isolation from our family, that is hard. Please don't think that I don't have an appreciation of the facts.

Yes lockdown should just be that but as you say its being flouted, every extra opening is just another excuse for those that want to flout the regulations to do so, the stipulations are  plain enough and when the government see fit to relax them that will be time enough for all of us to look at how we can best adapt to them.

Fred 

[BroadAmbition]

sometimes the forum idiots speak more sense than the supposedly sensible people.

Doesn't he just - He's gone and gave hissen away there

Griff

[unclemike]

does anyone think we should withdraw his title of forum idiot?

[Timbo]

1 hour ago, BroadAmbition said:

sometimes the forum idiots speak more sense than the supposedly sensible people.

Doesn't he just - He's gone and gave hissen away there

Griff

 

8 minutes ago, chameleon said:

does anyone think we should withdraw his title of forum idiot?

OOh hell no! He's our idiot and we are hanging on to him. Besides which I've had some excellent offers for him from the likes of the WHO, apparently they've been looking for someone to fill in for Keith Moon, the Vatican have put in an offer, something about turning cooking oil into diesel, the sensible people of America, that's Bob in Hollywood, are... I mean... is...begging me to let him be his new president, like the Vatican the chinless and gormless of Westminster think of him as a saint but are offering me good money to stop him running for election and the Natural History Museum have offered to have him stuffed and mounted....but I think that's just a Mrs Edna String in the typing pool.

[Poppy]

21 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Has a "Born again cyclist" been "recycled"?

D'you think we could ease the lockdown for 'special interest groups' such as.... oh, let me see.... Lycra Louts, and encourage them to go whirling about the countryside in mass packs for a few days...?

D'you think that'll trigger a 'second peak', but largely composed of Lycra Louts and MAMILS, and the air would be a lot cleaner and more wholesome for the rest of us when they've gone?

Merit a 'Petition To Parliament'...? Whadya think? 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Poppy said:

D'you think we could ease the lockdown for 'special interest groups' such as.... oh, let me see.... Lycra Louts, and encourage them to go whirling about the countryside in mass packs for a few days...?

D'you think that'll trigger a 'second peak', but largely composed of Lycra Louts and MAMILS, and the air would be a lot cleaner and more wholesome for the rest of us when they've gone?

Merit a 'Petition To Parliament'...? Whadya think? 

I think you are thinking what some of us would love to think, but I think the Thought Police might not allow us to think like that!

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

D'you think we could ease the lockdown for 'special interest groups' such as.... oh, let me see.... Lycra Louts, and encourage them to go whirling about the countryside in mass packs for a few days...?

Some days around Pooley Bridge/ Ullswater and on the country roads it's like the Tour de France..and then you have the people on horseback!..

[MauriceMynah]

I think the "tour de France" would be greatly improved by having a few people on horseback amongst them.

Oh, and to Poppy... What's a MAMIL ?

[Poppy]

3 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I think the "tour de France" would be greatly improved by having a few people on horseback amongst them.

Oh, and to Poppy... What's a MAMIL ?

Dr Google knows

[Poppy]

[Timbo]

Middle Aged Man In Lycra according to the OED! 

Edited to add they have support groups and support groups for their wives!