Lockdown - Further Clarification

[ExSurveyor]

You can always rely on the banks,

to take a good scheme and turn it to their advantage.

The chancellor  didn't reckon on the banks torpedoing his plan, I hope all the CEO's and Chairmen are summoned to the Bank of England and told which way the wind is blowing.

Local Authorities and even HMRC have managed to implement schemes that have only been in existence for a few weeks.

[Cockatoo]

When the scheme was announced didn't the Chancellor specifically say directors guarantees wouldn't be asked for?

 

[ExSurveyor]

14 minutes ago, Cockatoo said:

When the scheme was announced didn't the Chancellor specifically say directors guarantees wouldn't be asked for?

 

Yes, that has recently been reinforced. The swindlers were trying to steer applicants to their own high interest products.

[Cockatoo]

5 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Yes, that has recently been reinforced. The swindlers were trying to steer applicants to their own high interest products.

No great surprise there then :(

[rightsaidfred]

I keep trying to stay out of this but I cannot believe some of the posts I am seeing here.

It is bad enough the BBC, journalists some politicians and some of the people the BBC invite on for comments to use the current tragedy of peoples  lives to try and score points to suit there own agends but for members on here to play the same games is unbelievable.

For the sake of decency and out of respect for all the people doing there upmost to help the community at large and those in the front line please stop trying to undermine all the efforts being made by those operating in impossible and unforseen circumstanses to do the best they can for the country as a whole.

Fred

[Vaughan]

I am sorry you feel that way Fred but I for one, am not trying to undermine anyone's efforts. Least of all my daughter's.

Rather, I am trying to think "outside the box" of other things which are going to need sorting once this is all over, and which would be much better addressed now, rather than later when it might be too late.

I think especially of law and order. And the public's respect for the law. 

[ranworthbreeze]

2 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

My thoughts on the behavior of the banks would get me moderated.

They have such short memories. I have dealt with banks for 40 years in business, when you need to borrow they aren't interested unless they can screw you over, when you don't need to borrow from them any more they try to screw you on transaction fees.

I do hope the government grab them by the throat and give them a good shake, then hit them with extra taxes when this is over.

Hi Mark,

You and me both, I have been self employed since 1980 and know all of the pitfalls with dealing with banks.

Regards

Alan

 

[rightsaidfred]

16 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I am sorry you feel that way Fred but I for one, am not trying to undermine anyone's efforts. Least of all my daughter's.

Rather, I am trying to think "outside the box" of other things which are going to need sorting once this is all over, and which would be much better addressed now, rather than later when it might be too late.

I think especially of law and order. And the public's respect for the law. 

Vaughan I think we are all aware of what the future holds and wouldnt argue with you on that point but that dosnt justify the constant attempts to discredit what is being done at the moment or what we all need to do to protect both ourselves or those around us , constant sniping at authority is to nobodys benefit.

Fred

[Oddfellow]

55 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I keep trying to stay out of this but I cannot believe some of the posts I am seeing here.

It is bad enough the BBC, journalists some politicians and some of the people the BBC invite on for comments to use the current tragedy of peoples  lives to try and score points to suit there own agends but for members on here to play the same games is unbelievable.

For the sake of decency and out of respect for all the people doing there upmost to help the community at large and those in the front line please stop trying to undermine all the efforts being made by those operating in impossible and unforseen circumstanses to do the best they can for the country as a whole.

Fred

I think you might be confusing undermining the efforts of those on the front-line with being rightly critical of those that have made the front-line a far more dangerous and stressful place to be working.  

Linking any of the posts here to the tragedies up and down the country is NOT what has happened here. 

We are all rightly concerned about our health and that of our fellow human but why should that stop us commenting on the impact that decisions made by those in charge? These decisions are wide ranging for the health and wealth of the nation. 

Playing games is certainly not what I am witnessing on this thread. It's a debate about the situation brought about by a spurious document that created confusion in the lockdown.

 

[rightsaidfred]

12 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I think you might be confusing undermining the efforts of those on the front-line with being rightly critical of those that have made the front-line a far more dangerous and stressful place to be working.  

Linking any of the posts here to the tragedies up and down the country is NOT what has happened here. 

We are all rightly concerned about our health and that of our fellow human but why should that stop us commenting on the impact that decisions made by those in charge? These decisions are wide ranging for the health and wealth of the nation. 

Playing games is certainly not what I am witnessing on this thread. It's a debate about the situation brought about by a spurious document that created confusion in the lockdown.

 

Sorry but the only confusion I see is from those trying to manipulate what were very clear instructions to suit whatever aims they have, for me it is quite straight forward I use the car once a week to go shopping end of, if I choose to exercise outside the house I turn right or left at my front door walk clockwise or anti-clockwise and end up back at my front door and that is in London with no pleasant country side walks quite straightforward not rocket science.

Fred

[Oddfellow]

7 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Sorry but the only confusion I see is from those trying to manipulate what were very clear instructions to suit whatever aims they have, for me it is quite straight forward I use the car once a week to go shopping end of, if I choose to exercise outside the house I turn right or left at my front door walk clockwise or anti-clockwise and end up back at my front door and that is in London with no pleasant country side walks quite straightforward not rocket science.

Fred

So, you've not been aware of the very straightforward advise to #stayathome being entirely diluted by government ministers that now say you can drive somewhere for exercise ('cos initially they said you couldn't) and the other police document that further opens this can of worms by giving guidelines on how long you can drive, whether you can paint your kitchen and so on? 

That's what this thread was principally about and, like many, it has drifted a bit, but at its heart is a discussion about the mixed messages from authorities about what we can and can't do under lockdown. 

There's nobody here attempting to circumvent the #stayathome guidelines and most comments have been critical of the conflicting advice.  
 

[Wussername]

11 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

It's all the other info from official sources that say that some going out is ok, including driving that causes confusion. 

Making posts that say "what part of that do people not understand" suggests you haven't read a lot of the posts here that discuss the growing list of things you can do that aren't at home. 

Just follow the STAY AT HOME advice.

The rest will cause confusion as it would seem to demonstrate that I have read the posts on here and that many have not.

[MotorBoater]

John Wayne said, in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, "Don't apologise Mr Cahill, it's a sign of weakness".

I happen to think it's a sign of strength. This usually puts me at odds with every politician, CEO and chairman in the country but I am now used to being on the outside looking in.

Anyone who expected we will get through this without mistakes is in cuckoo land. To imagine that there is some kind of "Bible" or ready reference guide to refer to, however many rehearsals, is unrealistic. Since it's likely that a number of those people present in 2017 are no longer pushing the same buttons today, as then, I hope that one outcome of this is that these testing scenarios are run yearly and not just when somebody thinks it might be a good idea.

Clearly mistakes were made early on and we have been playing catch-up ever since. The main inquest will follow much much later and people will need to be held to account. Will we hear about it ? Probably not, apologies are a sign of weakness.

I don't see the efforts made in regard to PPE and care homes as reactive, rather as corrective, apologies are a sign of weakness.

Irrespective of my views on government by NGO committee, it has been made clear that the guidance to police officers was never intended for publication and it is equally made clear that the government guidance hasn't changed.

In years gone by it has not been unusual for the government to adopt a limited form of censorship over the media of the day in times of national emergency, and maybe that is what their antics are leading to, but I think Facebook and Twitter (Amongst others) will be a problem there.

Those directly involved in this struggle, and those indirectly involved through family members, obviously deserve our thanks and support. Those who lose family and friends deserve our sympathy, all of them warrant our prayers.

I see nothing in this thread that undermines the struggle that the frontline heroes are going through, or the respect in which they are held.

I see plenty of evidence of so-called loopholes but no suggestion that advantage should be taken of them, only the wish that government should take note of them.

Sorry but here comes the big BUT.....

The year 2001 saw the introduction of a new concept in British politics, it's not so much that it wasn't around before that but that was when it gained a popular name - "A good day to bury bad news". For those who need reminding I suggest you follow this link to The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1358985/Sept-11-a-good-day-to-bury-bad-news.html

If you really feel the need to indulge in a little bout of navel-gazing that of course is your right.

Are you really saying the supposedly superior human brain can't handle more than one thing at a time ?

If I am right in thinking Vaughan, Marshman, JM and others have their eyes on a bigger picture then they are to be applauded because someone needs to. If someone does indeed "pick a day to bury bad news" about the Broads you can't then say you want a replay because you weren't listening !

Finally I would add a word about the performance of the Banks, but that word might get me kicked out.

So I repeat - THE GOVERNMENT GUIDANCE HASN'T CHANGED !

[rightsaidfred]

3 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

So, you've not been aware of the very straightforward advise to #stayathome being entirely diluted by government ministers that now say you can drive somewhere for exercise ('cos initially they said you couldn't) and the other police document that further opens this can of worms by giving guidelines on how long you can drive, whether you can paint your kitchen and so on? 

That's what this thread was principally about and, like many, it has drifted a bit, but at its heart is a discussion about the mixed messages from authorities about what we can and can't do under lockdown. 

There's nobody here attempting to circumvent the #stayathome guidelines and most comments have been critical of the conflicting advice.  
 

As I thought I had made it quite clear I don't have problem understanding it and as my friends and 95% of my neighbours don't either it still say isn't rocket science, just listen to official broadcasts that tells you all you need to know.

Fred

[JennyMorgan]

On the BBC News website it clearly states that people may do as they wish in their own gardens, provided it only includes family members that live at that address. Relief, no rule bending, I can go fishing! 

 

[marshman]

You may begin to look for excuses if it goes on, for those over 70, for another 12 mths or more!

[ExSurveyor]

7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

On the BBC News website it clearly states that people may do as they wish in their own gardens, provided it only includes family members that live at that address. Relief, no rule bending, I can go fishing! 

 

Peter, I have a cunning plan, it involves your kayak and some bungy cord. It will give you exercise whilst keeping you near the shore.

[JennyMorgan]

3 minutes ago, marshman said:

You may begin to look for excuses if it goes on, for those over 70, for another 12 mths or more!

Perhaps today's ruling that parks must now be open will also apply to National Parks and family members thereof? Not sure that the waters haven't been muddied still further!

[JennyMorgan]

3 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Peter, I have a cunning plan, it involves your kayak and some bungy cord. It will give you exercise whilst keeping you near the shore.

Why stick with just a kayak?!!

[Chelsea14Ian]

There's talk about  what people  can and cant do.From my position, I have little choice, theres things I want to do ,many I cant.At high risk I have to stay home.I last left the house on March  23,My Birthday. I am lucky  I've got a garden,many dont.I miss the boat,going to the shops,I miss work.We all have had our lives turned upside down.We all want a return to normal.Not sure what normal that will be, None of us know.Yes Theres things I would like.I want to paint Alan's old room.I cant go to the shops.Marina can do the shopping, I worry about her doing so,but what choice do I have. My mum worked hard to bring me up,my Father died when I was 18 months old.I too worked hard to support  the family. Think I did my bit.This is perhaps the first time in my life I've felt useless.Sorry If I upset people.Many of you can at least go out,okay your choices are limited. I would  really enjoy  a walk, that for me wont  happen until at least  the middle  of June if I'm lucky. The reasoning behind  my setting up a petition  to make a NHS day once a year event and signing  up for the 2.6 challenge in Aid of the RNLI is simple,I feel useless and just want to help That's not happening my petition seems to be falling by the way side ,and in doing the 2.6 some question my choice  of the RNLI at this time.A organisation I've been a member local and National for many years.The 2.6 has given me a purpose, I will walk for half an hour,that's nothing  many will say.For me that's a big deal.Stange I can work non stop at work all day, but if I walk for a time I become breathless, walking is not easy.I will do it and hopefully raise many for the RNLI .I just in my limited  capacity want to help,but get a bit anyoned at times.Sorry if I've  upset anyone. Like most just want to get out of this mess,if in my  own small way to help so be it

Ian

 

 

 

 

 

[MotorBoater]

Look Tosh do what you have to do for your own sanity as much as anything else. If anyone takes offence it will probably be one of those who still haven't figured what it's all about. £50 million raised by Captain Tom and a couple of private donations and now we are told they can't spend it on what the NHS need most - PPE. Go for it for the RNLI, they need the money and can use it.

It should be as much about getting your exercise as the money.

[ExSurveyor]

The money raised by Captain Tom is to support charities that support NHS staff. Money for PPE isn't the issue, finding supplies is the problem.

Ian, do what you feel you need to do and raise money for who you want, some would find fault whatever charity it was.

[Vaughan]

21 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

I wish I could believe that there was no hidden agenda here but I can't. There has long been a creeping agenda to restrict our use of the Broads, plenty of evidence to support that accusation. 

I emphasise that what I am saying has nothing to do with the NHS or staying at home in lockdown.  Nor does it in any way detract from those priorities.

The RSPB have recently stated their visions and intentions for the Broads in their own written publications and we have discussed these on the Acle BNP thread.  They are a multi million pound organisation with huge political clout at Westminster and have stated clearly that they would see large areas of the Norfolk Broads, that they already own or manage, completely closed to the public in future.  They have also stated their objection to modern forms of navigation and that includes the banning of dredging.

In addition it is doubtful that their income stream is likely to be too much affected by the virus crisis.

If the BA were now to assume some sort of authority to close the Broads during the crisis then the RSPB will surely seize upon the opportunity, in Parliament, to see that quite a lot of it will never open to the public again. We have only the BA to rely on, in real terms, to stave off what I have already described as an insidious political invasion.

 

 

 

[Meantime]

5 hours ago, MotorBoater said:

£50 million raised by Captain Tom and a couple of private donations and now we are told they can't spend it on what the NHS need most - PPE.

If you wind the clock back 75 years, most hospitals were funded by charities, then the government formed the NHS to provide central funding for the health service. Today many of these charities still exist and there are several hundred all linked to individual hospitals. The rules for these charities make it clear that funds raised cannot be used for providing core clinical services such as paying doctors and nurses. This is to ensure that the government provide the core services to all hospitals and do not shirk it's responsibility or save money at the charities expense. PPE is very much a core service and should be sourced and funded by the NHS, and as Mark has pointed out the lack of PPE is more about sourcing the PPE, than paying for it. The charities are instead meant to spend the money raised on helping the hospitals to do more. This could be donating a piece of state of the art equipment, funding additional research and development or simply decorating and brightening up an area of the hospital for the benefit of the staff and patients.

Captain Tom's chosen charity the NHS Charities Together is an umbrella charity setup to support over 170 NHS charities. Their Covid 19 appeal has three main aims.

1.  Funds are going straight to the front line to support NHS staff, volunteers and patients impacted by Covid 19

2. They are also resourcing the vital care partnerships around the hospital that enable patients to leave hospital quickly and safely and to remain out of hospital.

3. Finally they will also be spent on the long term mental health recovery of NHS staff and their families who have been caring for Covid 19 patients.

Thanks to Captain Tom the biggest problem the charity has at the present time is working out how to distribute the fantastic amount of money raised. As an umbrella charity the NHS Charities Together only had three full time members of staff in 2018, none of whom received a salary of more than £60k which in itself is unusual for many charities.

Ian, With regards to your own fund raising, it is your personal effort and you should feel free to raise funds for whichever charity you wish without feeling any pressure from any quarter, or feeling that you've upset anyone. Go for it and raise what you can and have fun doing it.

[rightsaidfred]

31 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I emphasise that what I am saying has nothing to do with the NHS or staying at home in lockdown.  Nor does it in any way detract from those priorities.

The RSPB have recently stated their visions and intentions for the Broads in their own written publications and we have discussed these on the Acle BNP thread.  They are a multi million pound organisation with huge political clout at Westminster and have stated clearly that they would see large areas of the Norfolk Broads, that they already own or manage, completely closed to the public in future.  They have also stated their objection to modern forms of navigation and that includes the banning of dredging.

In addition it is doubtful that their income stream is likely to be too much affected by the virus crisis.

If the BA were now to assume some sort of authority to close the Broads during the crisis then the RSPB will surely seize upon the opportunity, in Parliament, to see that quite a lot of it will never open to the public again. We have only the BA to rely on, in real terms, to stave off what I have already described as an insidious political invasion.

 

 

 

That is an area where I totally agree with you and will always be an ongoing threat that we need to be vigilant on. 

However that has nothing to do with the BA reiterating government  policy which is only necessary because some people are behaving irresponsibly at the moment, the vast majority of the public have no problem understanding and complying with the requirements it is just the selfish few who make such measures necessary and those in the media etc trying to play politics with peoples lives who are undermining the amazing spirit and sacrifices being shown at the moment

Fred