Lockdown - Further Clarification

[YnysMon]

I’m just glad they’ve clarified that working on an allotment is okay. I’ve been spending rather a lot of time on ours and feeling vaguely guilty about it, even though it’s a brilliant place to ensure social distancing. We do see neighbouring plot holders but we each maintain plenty of distance, and there’s no queuing up for the water point.

Transplanted some seedlings this morning too. Celeriac in the foreground (absolutely weeny seedlings...really fiddly) and parsley to the rear.

 

[grendel]

at our local allotment someone has been having a go at the allotmenteers and reporting them to the police, even down to harassing them, he lives in a posh new house overlooking them that has no garden, i think he may be jealous.

[Meantime]

The current situation seems to bring out the best in a lot of people, unfortunately it also brings out the worst in a small number of people. A friend of mine who lives in Cambridgeshire was sitting out in their own front garden last weekend and a number of neighbours down the road all did the same and there was a bit of a party atmosphere and a few people were having a drink all within the confines of their own front gardens. The next day they all got a poison pen letter saying that if they did it again they would all be reported to the police!!!

[Bytheriver]

26 minutes ago, grendel said:

at our local allotment someone has been having a go at the allotmenteers and reporting them to the police, even down to harassing them, he lives in a posh new house overlooking them that has no garden, i think he may be jealous.

Went past local Allotments the other day on the way to do shopping & they all look immaculate !

[Oddfellow]

4 hours ago, webntweb said:

As soon as new advice comes out many people are trying to interpret it to suit their own wants (notice I don't say needs).

"Why shouldn't I buy something I am not allowed to buy at one shop when I am in another shop that does sell it as long as I buy a small item that is allowed at the same time"

You could have the virus without knowing it and going around a shop touching items, surfaces etc and in the case of smaller shops probably being in too close proximity to other people, could spread it to others who then go on to spread it even further. Or you could pick it up from somebody else in the shop and then you would probably pass it on to others - the virus in incredibly virulent and contagious.

Buying unnecessary items on line means more, possibly contaminated, packages being handled by more (possibly contaminated or being contaminated) people and then being handled two or three more times at transhipment points before the possibly contaminated delivery driver passes them to you.

Think of how fast it spreads when it gets into care homes.

Think of the children and families of the NHS workers who have already lost their lives - one more is too many.

At the moment lockdown is not being forced on us . . . but it will be if people carry on like this.

This is more about sending confusing messages and the interpretation of them. 

If the government does no't want people to say, "well why can we do this innocent thing but not this innocent thing?", then it should rule out everything except what's permitted. 

The rules about driving to get exercise were a great example of a wealth of mixed, conflicting messages. At the start, it was unclear, then some government ministers said "don't drive to get exercise", the police got pilloried for filming people in the Peak District with drones and eventually we are told that that was over-zealous and that we could drive a little to get exercise. The irony is that this latest guidance muddies it again! Now you can drive, but not for longer than you intend to get exercise. Ok, so, if I drive for 30 minutes is that OK if I do 40 minutes of walking or is that 30 minutes there, 30 minutes back so I need to do 70 minutes walking? 

There is ambiguity everywhere and the disjointedness of the message surrounding what we can and can't do away from home is crazy; It's no wonder people aren't staying at home because, increasingly, they are being told that they don't have to, whilst still being told that they have to. 

I honestly think that some of these policymakers couldn't catch measles at an anti-vaxers party.

 

 

 

[Meantime]

And just to add to that confusion The Broads Authority are saying you cannot come to The Broads to exercise!

We need to stay at home to save lives, so please continue to avoid travelling to the Broads for leisure or exercise ❌

[wombat nee blownup]

I’ve noticed that this thread is also being used by certain people to have a political dig at how it’s been run. It would have been impossible for any governing party to make sense of this and we should all do as advised regardless of which party is in power.


Sent from my iPhone using Norfolk Broads Network

[Oddfellow]

3 minutes ago, wombat nee blownup said:

I’ve noticed that this thread is also being used by certain people to have a political dig at how it’s been run. It would have been impossible for any governing party to make sense of this and we should all do as advised regardless of which party is in power.


Sent from my iPhone using Norfolk Broads Network

Perhaps, but we can't hypothesise what any other group might have done, we are stuck with what the current group is doing. This situation isn't about the colour of rosettes, it's about the colour of money. 

 

[BroadAmbition]

This situation isn't about the colour of rosettes, it's about the colour of money. 

Money does indeed make the world go round, it is sadly all powerful and conquering above all else

BUT

I would like to think the vast majority of the public and at least some of our politicians from all 'Sides' would be putting the well being of our population above money

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

And just to add to that confusion The Broads Authority are saying you cannot come to The Broads to exercise!

Well, you shouldn't!  

[Poppy]

1 minute ago, BroadAmbition said:

This situation isn't about the colour of rosettes, it's about the colour of money. 

Money does indeed make the world go round, it is sadly all powerful and conquering above all else

BUT

I would like to think the vast majority of the public and at least some of our politicians from all 'Sides' would be putting the well being of our population above money

Griff

You wish....

[BroadAmbition]

Yes I do.

Somewhat naively I will admit

Griff

[Oddfellow]

And just now, on BBC Radio Norfolk, we had the coast guard saying Don't drive to the beach. If you live in a coastal community, walk to the beach, but if you don't stay out of your car and don't drive, stay in your own community. This less than 24 hours after the issuing of guidance that says it's ok to drive to get exercise. 

Please, can we have one fricking hymn sheet!  

[Meantime]

14 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Well, you shouldn't!  

So if you live 20mins drive away from The Broads and you want to go for a 2hr walk in Broadland, why shouldn't you, if you take into account the clarification from the National Police Chiefs Council, which states that you CAN drive to exercise as long as the drive is shorter than the time spent exercising! 

[Oddfellow]

3 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

So if you live 20mins drive away from The Broads and you want to go for a 2hr walk in Broadland, why shouldn't you, if you take into account the clarification from the National Police Chiefs Council, which states that you CAN drive to exercise as long as the drive is shorter than the time spent exercising! 

But who's advice do you follow? The BA says no. The Coast Guard says no. All within 24 hours of some guidelines saying yes?

Dear elbow, this is your backside speaking.....

[wombat nee blownup]

And of course you could sort it all out in minutes? Where is my sigh emoji?


Sent from my iPhone using Norfolk Broads Network

[CambridgeCabby]

Sadly as has become apparent many people choose to ignore the guidance given no matter which way it is interpreted.

If we all stick to the original message of 

NO unnecessary traveling and
NO social contact outside of your household group 

we may be able to return to a more normal existence  , if we choose to be bloody minded and try and interpret the guidelines so as to enable ourselves to do as we please then the only result will be a far higher loss of life.

 

This years Darwin Awards will have a hell of a lot of entrants.

 

PLEASE STAY AT HOME IF AT ALL POSSIBLE no contact equals no new host to continue the spread.

 

[Oddfellow]

2 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Sadly as has become apparent many people choose to ignore the guidance given no matter which way it is interpreted.

If we all stick to the original message of 

NO unnecessary traveling and
NO social contact outside of your household group 

we may be able to return to a more normal existence  , if we choose to be bloody minded and try and interpret the guidelines so as to enable ourselves to do as we please then the only result will be a far higher loss of life.

 

This years Darwin Awards will have a hell of a lot of entrants.

 

PLEASE STAY AT HOME IF AT ALL POSSIBLE no contact equals no new host to continue the spread.

 

Absolutely. All these mixed messages are just crazy. 

And, as you say, people aren't all listening anyway. Just the other day we had someone on the phone wanting to book a boat for a few weeks time...... 

[DAVIDH]

Latest from the Government:

UK government: Do not book summer holidays

Downing St has said that government guidelines and official foreign office advice "do not allow for people going on holiday".

The prime minister's spokesman said that travelling within the UK for holidays was "not something which the current guidelines allow for" and Foreign Office advice "continues to be that you should go abroad for essential travel only".

Earlier Transport Secretary Grant Shapps suggested people should not book summer holidays for later this year.

 

When asked to confirm this by a journalist from the East of England at the daily briefing today, Sharma pointedly did not answer the question and just  changed the subject. Again, no clarity.

[Oddfellow]

6 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

Latest from the Government:

UK government: Do not book summer holidays

Downing St has said that government guidelines and official foreign office advice "do not allow for people going on holiday".

The prime minister's spokesman said that travelling within the UK for holidays was "not something which the current guidelines allow for" and Foreign Office advice "continues to be that you should go abroad for essential travel only".

Earlier Transport Secretary Grant Shapps suggested people should not book summer holidays for later this year.

This comes as sad, but not unexpected news. The surprise is that they have actually said this. 

If tourism is effectively dead this year, what is the government going to do about supporting the industry as £10k (or even £25k) per small business won't go far and no bank in its right mind would lend on the knowledge that the industry has zero chance of paying anything back with no revenue streams. Not that I have any faith in the banks; just to be clear. 

[BroadsAuthority]

I believe the NPCC advice only refers to the legality of police enforcing social distancing, however the Government's guidance regarding access to open spaces remains the same: stay local, use open spaces near to your home where possible and do not travel unnecessarily (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces) 

Tom

[Vaughan]

Excuse me, but I have a simple question :

Why is it being left to the Police, to tell us what to do?  Why are we being given "police" guidelines?

I was always taught, as a Special Constable, that the Police (as Queen's Officers) are there to uphold the Law and not to try and interpret it for themselves.

So please tell me : has anyone passed a Law recently, that says I can't sit on a park bench?  Guidelines (not Law) tell us that the elderly (and I shudder to think, that means me) should take exercise to keep up our resistance to illness.

So does that now mean that I have to run all the way there and back without stopping to draw breath?

The Police cannot be respected by the public unless they have clear Government legislation to enforce. 

 

 

[ExSurveyor]

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020

This is the UK legislation that covers it.

 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, EastCoastIPA said:

So if you live 20mins drive away from The Broads and you want to go for a 2hr walk in Broadland, why shouldn't you, if you take into account the clarification from the National Police Chiefs Council, which states that you CAN drive to exercise as long as the drive is shorter than the time spent exercising! 

Can't argue with that, it also being my understanding of the latest dictates. Seems quite reasonable to my way of thinking and quite probably a welcome relaxation of the guidelines. At least a few more folk can now walk backwards and forwards past their boats.

[Greenone]

4 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020

This is the UK legislation that covers it.

There has been no change to this legislation, the document in question is guidance for police officers from the CPS via the NPCC and the College of Policing. It was never meant as a public document but has ended up in the public domain presumably courtesy of the press.