Face Coverings.

[finny]

55 minutes ago, Ray said:

Surely though all that proved was that someone with healthy lungs wasn't impaired by a mask, not a rigorous test even for that as only one sample!

A doctor should know better than to circulate something like that!

I dont ray iam not doctor - perhaps you know more than him then 

Finny

[Ray]

1 minute ago, finny said:

I dont ray iam not doctor - perhaps you know more than him then 

Finny

I personally don't know better than him, I have no medical training!

However I do know that one example of anything proves absolutely nothing except what happened that once. But I think you know that's what I meant 

[finny]

Under the circumstance Ray i think its more of a question in finding what works for you ,my wife wont wear a mask and uses a snood which is fine . A mask or face covering offers the wearer little protection from the virus apart from anyone coughing who is infected then the virus is contained ......in theory and then of course there is a massive issue  with cross contamination and disposal - i expect  shopping centre empty trolleys and car parks along with shopping malls to be littered with use masks 

 

the cynic in me thinks it will all dry up when the surplus millions of masks that was bought after the event -  get sold   ??

 

finny

[grendel]

3 hours ago, finny said:

I am not pointing the gun at anyone Ian - i was shown a clip recently of a Doctor/surgeon  wired up to a ICU  monitor proving that a medical mask in no way impares your breathing  or oxygen levels in your lungs or blood stream

sometimes if we keep telling ourselves there is a problem we can not overcome - then there becomes a problem because we start to believe it 

just my thoughts 

finny 

finny, if i was at home i have a video clip, i put a mask on and within 1 minute my blood oxygen had dropped from 98 to 92, 94% is the minimum for normal. if you are a healthy individual, you wont have a problem with a mask, if however you have a breathing problem, it may mean the difference between getting enough oxygen and not.

[grendel]

I have a scarf, I wore it to Tesco's and yes I can breath through it, it was deemed acceptable by the staff on the door, of course by the time I had walked there from stalham staithe I was already puffing away. But this scarf works for me.

Anything more restrictive clogs up with water vapour from my breath, a single thickness tube scarf ( thinner than tee shirt material), was too restrictive after I had been up and down 4 aisles, as I could no longer get enough breath,. I was feeling light headed and as my glasses were also steaming up badly, couldn't see where I was going, so it got taken off. (For an idea of scale this is in front of a 10" laptop screen.

[Chelsea14Ian]

On a good day my oxygen  levels are at  best 95 or 96.The other week they were below  90.For those that are aware regarding  oxygen  levels.Someone with out breathing  problems, at rest 97/98 is good.Below 90 is fairly  dangerous. My first pneumonia five years ago they were 50.I have a finger  monitor which checks my oxygen  pulse rate.

[finny]

36 minutes ago, grendel said:

I have a scarf, I wore it to Tesco's and yes I can breath through it, it was deemed acceptable by the staff on the door, of course by the time I had walked there from stalham staithe I was already puffing away. But this scarf works for me.

Anything more restrictive clogs up with water vapour from my breath, a single thickness tube scarf ( thinner than tee shirt material), was too restrictive after I had been up and down 4 aisles, as I could no longer get enough breath,. I was feeling light headed and as my glasses were also steaming up badly, couldn't see where I was going, so it got taken off. (For an idea of scale this is in front of a 10" laptop screen.

Sadly i feel the situation aint going to change for a while and it will be a case of working with what suits .The wife tells me she has ordered a washable  anti bacterial snood - which puzzles me i always thought covid was a virus ??

finny 

[Maxwellian]

After reading all of this I am too tired to go out face mask or not. What the doctor proved that when he had the mask on his oxygen level did not lower at all. Is that the same for someone with a lung problem, I do not know. You could carry the evidence across and say it should not. Depends if the doctor actually used additional capacity/effort to maintain his levels or maintained for the same level of work.

we are left wondering. I have been wearing a mask for a lonG time whEN shopping as I am in a medium risk category. I always steer clear of those that do not.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Whats your point ? Someone has suggested  a Unnamed Doctor wearing a mask which didn't  affect  he's breathing. WHERES the proof?And if for a minute  you doubt  that wearing  a mask does not impare someone with a serious  lung condition  then you are mistaken .Feel free to keep your distance from someone  not wearing a face covering.I feel there is a lack of understanding amongst  some on this forum regarding  exemptions.It not those of us deciding exemptions.As I've said before put yourself in my shoes my breathing makes it almost  impossible to wear a mask for even short periods  of time.

Thats a fact not a Unknown  Doctor with more then likely healthy lungs.

The sad thing if I can't get across my reasons for not wearing a mask what chance with those that may challenge me when I wish to travel on buses  shops etc.

[finny]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8529353/NHS-doctor-proves-masks-NOT-affect-breathing.html

finny

[Chelsea14Ian]

This does not change my view one bit this man is a 30 year old with more then likely  healthy lungs.I think you and others just don't understand anything about lung disease.A piece in the Daily mail proves nothing. And do you disagree with the Governments decision to exampt  a whole group  of people  is wrong?Will you or any one else convince me that I'm wrong no.

Fact not conjecture those exampted.Those under 11,those with serious medical  conditions. The deaf,relying on lip reading. 

[finny]

well what ever you mask stance is this virus has not gone away ,early this week i know of a teacher who is still at work or should i say WAS who along with her three year old daughter tested positive - how sad is that 

 

finny

[Meantime]

5 hours ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

I feel there is a lack of understanding amongst  some on this forum regarding  exemptions.It not those of us deciding exemptions.

The government has not provided exemptions to anyone on the basis of medical complaint, or group of medical conditions. I feel it is you that is not understanding the governments stance on exemptions properly. When I mentioned hay fever earlier on this thread you said you did not think hay fever was exempted! The fact is that hay fever specifically is not exempted, but then again neither is COPD or Asthma. The guidance states;

You do not need to wear a face covering if you have a legitimate reason not to. This includes (but is not limited to):

young children under the age of 11 (Public Health England do not recommended face coverings for children under the age of 3 for health and safety reasons)

not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability

if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress

It does not state that any particular medical condition is exempt. This is why the government will not issue a blanket exemption letter or card to anyone. Some people with COPD on a good day would be able to wear a mask. Some people on a good day may have mild distress wearing a mask, others might have severe distress. Anybody who has severe distress wearing a mask is exempt, but it is a personal decision and very much depends on how you are feeling on any given day.

I do suffer with hay fever. Anyone who has had hay fever on a bad day will tell you it is like drowning in a sea of snot. Wearing a mask in that situation would cause severe distress, although to be honest In the current climate it is likely to cause as much distress to those around me as the constant sneezing would be a worry. A face shield is a good alternative in that situation, though I am more likely to avoid going out in the first place.

It is obvious that wearing a face mask causes you severe distress, however you have managed quite adequately to wear a face shield, so why wouldn't you continue to do so to protect those around you, and then you don't need an exemption card!

I found the following on the asthma.org.uk website and it seems like quite a sensible approach. Much if not all of it is probably sound advice for someone with COPD.

Do I have to wear a face covering if I have asthma?

Most people with asthma, even if it’s severe, can manage to wear a face mask for a short period of time, and shouldn't worry if they need to wear one. Wearing a mask does not reduce a person’s oxygen supply or cause a build-up of carbon dioxide. You may have read stories that say that it can, but this isn’t true.

Some people with asthma tell us that face coverings can make breathing feel more difficult, which might be uncomfortable. It’s a good idea to try wearing a face covering at home, or on a short walk around the block first. It might not feel comfortable straight away, so give it a chance.

You can also experiment with different types of mask – some are easier to wear than others. Sometimes the feeling of wearing a face mask might take a bit of getting used to, but trying different types and starting with short periods of time can help you feel more comfortable.

Just having asthma doesn’t make you exempt from wearing a face covering. However, if you do find it impossible to wear a face covering, the UK Government has said that you don’t have to wear one.

Is a particular type of face covering better for people with asthma?

We don’t recommend any particular type of face covering for people with asthma. It’s a question of finding one that’s most suitable for you, if you can wear one. You might have to try out a few different types to find one that’s comfortable.

Ian, you claim that some people on this forum don't understand breathing conditions, so let me give you some background. My oldest brother smoked for most of his life and after reading Allen Carr's The Easy Way To Stop Smoking, quit smoking over night. Research has now shown that for someone who has smoked for a long time, quitting suddenly is the worse way to stop smoking. For the last 12 years he has had severe COPD. I see first hand the effects on his health. However prior to covid on a good day he could still gently cycle. On a not so good day he would use an electric bike. On a bad day it takes him three hours to get out of bed and downstairs. He never knows when those bad days are going to happen and prefers not to stay away from home overnight now.

Another brother's wife suffers from severe bronchitis. Unfortunately she still smokes and like her mother before her, nothing is going to make her give up smoking. Both my brother and sister - law have been in the clinically extremely vulnerable group the same as you. 

I was born with asthma and have lived with the effects of it all my life. Another brother born with asthma grew out of it in his 20's, that hasn't been the case for me.

So yes I do understand breathing conditions and that no single case is the same as another. The one thing we all have in common is a fear of catching covid, which could be more severe for us. As a family lock down has been more difficult for those in the shielding group. Speaking at length with my brother last night he intends to wear a mask where possible, or face shield when it is not. The one thing he most fears is other people not wearing a mask for any reason. That is from someone with COPD. He is also still following the official government advice and shielding until the 1st August. He has yet to visit a shop or use public transport and will still be relying heavily on family and friends around him to do as much of his shopping as possible for him. 

The government advice for the clinically extremely vulnerable group is still as follows;

What will change from 1 August

From 1 August, the government will pause shielding unless the transmission of COVID-19 in the community starts to rise significantly.

This means:

the government will no longer be advising you to shield

the support from the National Shielding Service of free food parcels, medicine deliveries and care will stop

NHS Volunteer Responders will carry on delivering the food you buy, prescriptions and essential items to you if you need it

you will still be eligible for priority supermarket slots (if you have registered by 17 July)

You may still be at risk of severe illness if you catch coronavirus, so stay at home as much as you can and continue to take precautions when you do go out. You can do this by washing your hands regularly, avoiding touching your face and keeping 2 metres away from people outside of your household or bubble wherever possible.

From 1 August, you’ll be advised you could go out to more places and see more people, for example, the advice is:

you can go to work, as long as the workplace is COVID-secure – but carry on working from home if you can

children who are clinically extremely vulnerable can go back to school (when the rest of their class goes back)

you can go outside to buy food, to places of worship and for exercise – keeping 2 metres away wherever possible

This guidance will be updated with these changes on 1 August.

 

 

[Vaughan]

20 hours ago, Vaughan said:

When will we take off these masks and return to normal human gestures of communication (and mutual trust), or will we ever?

Already it is reported in this morning's papers that Boris has said the obligatory wearing of masks will probably go on until at least next summer.

So I can't see a lot of Christmas shopping being done this year except on line. Even in whatever retail outlets might still be in business by then.

It is also being suggested that rubber gloves will probably be next.

[Maxwellian]

Ian. When I made my post it was not an unnamed I had actually see the video. May I suggest if you have not done so already that you make representation to your MP or another constructive form of protest. Whilst we all find it extremely interesting and are very sympathetic to your problem, repeating your issue on the forum is highly unlikely to help your issue.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Thanks for the trouble  you clearly have taken to write your post.All of which is true.I  do fully understand. There's not A question  of me not wanting to wear a mask.It is almost  impossible  to do so.I fully understand  sheilding will end as of 1 August 2020 The Government  wrote to me some weeks ago.Yes the advice from Asthma research and the British lung fandation, says most people will be able to wear a face coverings, however  if you are unable  to wear one you dont have to.At best the law surrounding face coverings  is muddled.As it stands many without  any good reason not to wear face coverings can print off stuff from the Internet.If this was done officially in the first place it would stop that mess.On Monday I spoke with my practice Nurse regarding  my breathing which has got worse perhaps  due to pneumonia. I now have  a new puffer,I also mentioned  a letter regarding  exemption. She agreed with me but said Doctors  can't provide supporting documentation. The reality  as it stands  at present is those according to the Government unable  to wear face coverings, will be challenged by the not so great British public for not wearing  face coverings. That's not right.

Regarding  sheilding, yes it will stop on the 1 August 2020.I'm grateful  it has helped me.On the 23 March I hit 65 and received texts telling me to sheild then followed  by letters. A few days later a phone call from the council asking if I required  help.Thanks but my wife can help with shopping and get my meds.SInce then no one has contacted me.It would  have been nice if someone phoned me as a follow-up  but nothing. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

13 minutes ago, Maxwellian said:

Ian. When I made my post it was not an unnamed I had actually see the video. May I suggest if you have not done so already that you make representation to your MP or another constructive form of protest. Whilst we all find it extremely interesting and are very sympathetic to your problem, repeating your issue on the forum is highly unlikely to help your issue.

My reason for this post was to gain views on face coverings  clearly its stired up a storm.Its clear some feel like me but many don't. That's life ,I was hoping  for some sort of understanding. With respect I don't want sympathy, just a understanding. I will leave it there I've made my point. Personally I will take all the care possible and dont take my or others health for granted .

[grendel]

personally I dont think it is the issue of wearing the mask or not, it is the fact that anyone not wearing one will be subject to some of the same attitudes I see here, facebook has done a supreme job of making non mask wearers out to be super idiots or socially irresponsible.

This makes it very difficult for those that cannot wear a mask when out in society, the doctors video has done the same, yet the government recognised that there would be those who for a medical condition could not wear them.

the problem now is the perception of the general public.

Ian, I have found the scaft i purchased works for me - at least long enough to get round a small supermarket, if it gets to a point where i have to remove it to breathe I will.

If you see my picture above the holes are quite large and do not restrict the breath anywhere as much as the approved masks, but if you appear to be making an effort, few will challenge you over the fact that your mask has more hole than fabric, if challenged the easy answer is to say you have a breathing difficulty and this is the best you can manage.

I too have problems wearing a mask, and this is my solution, I have heard of people that have worn a mask made of net curtain material, not as effective as a proper mask, but apparently enough to reduce chances of passing the virus on, as it traps some of the vapour particles you breathe / cough out.

[grendel]

I also think that as we can see from this thread, there are some who have problems wearing face coverings, maybe a larger proportion than some people think, and that it is different for every person, if I was at home I would post the results of my experiment - very similar to the doctors posted but with such a different result.

[Hylander]

58 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

 

It is also being suggested that rubber gloves will probably be next.

Ahh!!    that brings back memories -   you watch your doctor put these on and the next expression is always - just relax!!!.    

I hope it does not come to us having to wear disposable gloves,  not only are they blessed expensive but as we all use hand sanitiser and at the shops you can clean your trolley before use,   a tad unnecessary.  

[Chelsea14Ian]

Cloves, as a Chef I'm well used to wearing them.Indeed hand washing and sanitising is part of my normal life.

But Trevor I understand what your saying.

 

[MauriceMynah]

33 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Cloves, as a Chef I'm well used to wearing them.Indeed hand washing and sanitising is part of my normal life.

But Trevor I understand what your saying.

 

I wear Cloves too, much to everybody's relief.

[Meantime]

29 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Cloves, as a Chef I'm well used to wearing them.Indeed hand washing and sanitising is part of my normal life.

But Trevor I understand what your saying.

 

Ian, I would have thought that as a chef you would have used them in your cooking rather than wearing them. 

I find them quite handy for toothache as well. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Yes I do okay G not C.

[Meantime]

"And I think, probably, the single thing that we didn't see at the beginning was the extent to which it was being transmitted asymptomatically from person to person."

The words of Boris Johnson yesterday.