Face Coverings.

[MauriceMynah]

 

10 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

We will wear them but with reservations.

Good idea, but how do you wear a reservation?

[CambridgeCabby]

8 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

 

Good idea, but how do you wear a reservation?

?

[VetChugger]

I thought they were not compulsory until tomorrow??

 

[VetChugger]

5 hours ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Blood tests,my last one or should  I say ones.They had trouble  getting blood out.Okay I'll say it can't get blood out of a stone. Hope yours went better then mine.

The first one was taken easily enough. Because I'm still a bit wobbly, the phlebotomist came today. Failed in my usual arm but managed in the other. Fingers very crossed now for the results!!

 

[Meantime]

12 minutes ago, VetChugger said:

I thought they were not compulsory until tomorrow??

 

In shops there not till tomorrow. Hospitals, doctors and transport it has been compulsory for a few weeks.

[VetChugger]

Yes, I am well aware of that sadly!

[Cheesey69]

Interesting to see if it’s going to be enforced and who by. 
I don’t expect any shop worker to enforce it as it’s not their job. 
As one who is some kind of key worker, issued with government travel papers who works with the police I can tell you that throughout the dark days they was in no position to enforce the lockdown to any great extent. 
Not once as I travelled across nearly empty motorways was I stopped. 
The police numbers are so low now that the government are basically appealing for everyone to obey. 
If they don’t what are we going to do about it?

seems to me that Boris has moved the goal posts just when it becomes obvious that no one will comply and cotton on to the fact that mainly these rules and guidelines are unenforceable 

[ExSurveyor]

Common sense will mean the majority will comply, the few who refuse will be the same ones who ignored lockdown.

Sadly you can't train stupid.

As with all the previous restrictions, the projections will be based on a small percentage of people ignoring them and as long as X % comply they will be effective.

If everyone complied with every law we wouldn’t need the police or courts.

 

 

 

[vanessan]

I can’t make up my mind if these people who argue about wearing a face covering, or refuse to wear one, are selfish, ignorant or just plain stupid. (Not those who can’t wear one for any reason of course.) As soon as something has to be enforced, it’s like a red rag to a bull and has to be challenged. It’s a sad indictment of the world we live in today I suppose. ☹️

[grendel]

sadly there has been a concerted social media campaign to vilify those who dont wear masks, which will do nothing to affect those who can wear them, but choose not to, but which will create an awful lot of bad feeling towards those who for some medical reason cannot wear a mask, and those are the ones that want to comply but cannot, for whatever reason, be it psychological, or medical. they are the ones that will be called out on not wearing a mask, because if you try calling out those that dont wear them because they cant be bothered, those are the ones that will get antagonistic and swear back, those with a medical reason will be the ones that try and explain why they arent wearing one, and it is my great fear that they will be the ones picked upon , purely because they are not being antagonistic. 

to my mind the medical professions refusal to issue letters or badges to those unable to wear masks, is going to force those vulnerable people into trying to wear them, with any medical consequences that accompany that.

[grendel]

I will be attempting to wear a face covering, its quite porus, but I have been informed it still can assist, but if I have to stop wearing it (like i did with a test of a tube scarf last weekend when shopping- after just 4 aisles) I will have to rely on explaining to staff, and hope that my home made badge helps in that regard.

[vanessan]

9 minutes ago, grendel said:

sadly there has been a concerted social media campaign to vilify those who dont wear masks

Yet another sad indictment of the world today. (Having said that, the white feathers handed out during the first world war was something similar. No one really knew for sure why a young man hadn’t gone to fight.) 

[grendel]

my daughter has an asthmatic badge she wears saying her inhaler is in her bag, yet even with this and her panting from breath, she has been called out for not wearing a mask on public transport, and its not the transpost staff doing the calling out, they are very understanding, yet other passangers are seeing she is struggling to breathe, and yet at the same time telling her she should be wearing a mask, and how irresponsible she is being for taking hers off. As I said they only pick on the people who wont or cant fight back, as soon as someone tells them to 'go away' and mind their own business, they back down, yet its the vulnerable who dont answer back and are thus the ones targeted.

[Ray]

I really sympathise with the situation that people who can't wear masks find themselves in.

It is part of a wider problem where any of life's problems that can't be seen do not exist in the eyes of those who "virtue signal" or to be blunt just don't think or care!

[Chelsea14Ian]

I was going to stop replying on my post.But I agree there will be some that will refuse to wear when in the samw way as some,carry on smoking  in non smoking  areas.Many of us that have problems due to medical conditions  that are exempted will try to explain  our conditions to those that challenge us,putting us in a unfair position. After  speaking  with my gp surgery.They don't have Authority to offer letters in support  of our condition sadly.Today I will a sheild,hopefully it won't affect  my breathing. 

[MauriceMynah]

Ok, we understand the issue, but rather than droning on about getting the Government, NHS or shopkeepers to "do something about it" , it is "We" who need to do something about it. Who is "We"? We are society, we are the general public, we are the people who we don't call "They".

I shall put my suggestion forwards for people to comment on, fine tune or dismiss as is seen fit.

First, the option. I would propose that when out in public a person who is not exempted by way of age MUST wear one of two things. Either a face covering or an armband. The armband to carry the word "EXEMPT" in quite large letters, clearly readable at two metres.

This "Ruling" to be publicised  on Facebook, twitter and all the other social platforms available. It should be considered sociably unacceptable not to comply. Further, it should be considered equally socially unacceptable to wear an armband just because the subject doesn't want to wear a face covering.

The armbands to be printed out by the subject or by someone else on his/her behalf ( Friend, neighbour etc.).

It should be the responsibility of the subject to obtain the armbands where appropriate. It should be the responsibility of society to publicise all this.

Ok all, play with that one for a while!

[Ray]

In an ideal society, it's a great idea.

In real life there will be those who suspect everyone of cheating and still call the armband wearer out

There will indeed be a proportion who do cheat the system, giving weight to the suspicious above

There will be those who object because they feel at risk from those not wearing a mask

There will be those who object because "if they don't have to wear a mask, why should I?"

There will be those who don't understand

Those who won't understand

Finally, a large amount of people will comply, just as if the armband scheme didn't exist.

Personally I think it's a good idea and a fair way of dealing with things, but sadly it wouldn't change things much from what it is now. On a positive note it would save at least some of the genuinely exempt from some of the hassle.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Okay As everyone can tell I feel strongly  about this.Why because even on a good day its hard to breathe. The Government brought in this law.Theres no doubt  some are exempted. WE don't make that up.Why they have not provided support in a real condition is,I feel is unacceptable. Its not reasonable for us to constantly explain why to I'm sure many self appointed busy bodies who finger point.As I've said before they know who is exempt, certainly  our Doctors do.

[MauriceMynah]

I see it this way Ian. If the NHS provide the "identification" in whatever form, it will be copied and used by the cheats.

All that will have achieved is to give the NHS more work, at a time when they least need it. My suggestion is equally open to abuse but puts the responsibility on the individual rather than the NHS.

If I were you, I'd wear two armbands. One with the word "EXEMPT" the other (on the other arm) saying "COPD". To be very blunt Ian, whinging about the government bringing in this legislation, and demanding that someone other than yourself, should do something about it, is not a constructive way forwards.

This legislation was designed and brought in to protect YOU, the highly vulnerable person. We all have our parts to play. Those of us who can wear the coverings, should do so whenever we are out.

I refuse to believe that those who can't wear such coverings , do not have the will to do things to help themselves. Print off some armbands, wear them and publicise your actions.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Sorry but if as you suggest I or anyone  else can print off something  such as I suffer  COPD. Then ayone else can do the same.This is where the problem  will be.The Government and the NHS know who is exempted It can be tailored easily to me,on official headed  card my name and even my nhs number.Yes I fully understand the , problem  like me face a double edged sword. This law is to protect everyone and those with certain  medical conditions are most at risk.I'm sure many people  such as me may feel trapped and may well stay at home.

Sorry if anyone feels annoyed by my views on this subject, but it is easy for us to be supported in law.A DIY approach on labels cards is open to abuse by those for no medical reason can and will misuse .

With due respect If I can't persuade some on this forum, why I'm exempted. Just imagine doing the same to a self appointment finger pointer on a bus,train or shop.

[Hylander]

11 hours ago, VetChugger said:

The first one was taken easily enough. Because I'm still a bit wobbly, the phlebotomist came today. Failed in my usual arm but managed in the other. Fingers very crossed now for the results!!

 

Oh how I do sympathise with you.    I too never want to part with any of my blood and to say it is a performance is an understatement.    I have found Beccles Medical Centre blood department are excellent and really know their stuff,  since going there.     They use a fine needle and just lately they have been successful and oh my what relief it is when you see that file filling up.  Usually (but not recently) have ended up with it being taken from the back of my hand.    At one time I really did wonder what I ran on apart from neat alcohol. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Most of the time its okay.At times like the last one,it was both arms then my hand which worked.Now and again I'm dehydrated.

[Meantime]

A serious question for those who cannot wear a mask. Can you prove you are not a carrier of covid-19? Anybody exempt or not who doesn't wear a face covering puts those around them at risk.

I believe the government doesn't want to issue exemption letters or badges because for many people with breathing difficulties it can be a daily moving target with good and bad days. It might be possible for some on some days to wear a face mask, on other days it may not be possible. On the other hand a face shield may be more appropriate. It might even be more appropriate on really bad days to stay at home. 

We all have a social responsibility to do everything we are each capable of to protect each other. I would even suggest that if you have someone who could do your shopping for you, then that might be a safer option. Remember if you cannot wear a mask you are also more at risk from anyone else in the shop who also cannot wear a mask.

The move from 2m social distancing to 1m+ has made things worse because this effectively increases the capacity of places, but relies more heavily on the wearing of masks where possible to reduce transmission of the virus. 

I would suggest that enclosed public spaces under 1m+ have become more dangerous places for people with breathing difficulties because they will find it harder to keep their distance from other non mask wearers.

Personally I will carry on wearing a mask where possible and still continue to shop at the quieter periods. Above all else I shall be keeping my distance from anyone not wearing a mask because whilst you may have a valid reason for not wearing a mask, you could be a carrier and as someone with asthma, I do not want the virus as it could be a serious risk to my life. If I have days when I cannot wear a mask, then it will be a face shield, or failing that an online shop, or calling on friends to do a shop for me.

There are days when I would more than qualify for any exemption letter. I will deal with those days as I see fit, rather than blaming the government or putting other people at risk. I do not want, or would use an exemption letter.

 

 

[marshman]

Ian - you can easily do what is required i.e make up and print off your own exemptions, armbands or otherwise,so I do not understand why you should not. Why should anyone else bother to do it and if they do, so what? There will be very very few who want to go down that line just to cheat the system, so please do what you want to do and not expect the Dr's or anyone else to do it for you.

[grendel]

Maurice Mynah, I can fully understand the armband idea, unfortunately armbands of all sorts were used by a certain political party and those they persecuted to identify them to be singled out for excesses, I hardly think we want to go their again,.