Farewell To Some Old Favourites

[rightsaidfred]

Like any succesful business I am sure Richardsons have identified a business model that will allow them to prosper for the future, these are challenging times and the need to adapt to a changing market has never been more  prevalent, only time will tell if its the right one not speculation.

Fred

[oldgregg]

It seems an odd decision to me.

There is strong demand for high end boats for couples and families at the moment, but once foreign travel opens up again I can't see that enough people will pay £1000+ for a long weekend when they could go abroad for the same money. 

It always struck me that the classic fleet was the 'bread and butter' which kept the business going. No-one is ever going to get rich on a £600 weekend hire, but they're priced in a way which keeps people coming and keeps the business ticking over with income from experienced boaters (who are usually less fussed about having the latest boat) and it builds loyalty too.

And let's be clear - Not all groups of lads are a bad thing for a business. I've just spent the weekend on an orange Ricko's bathtub with four others and we've put plenty of money into the local economy.

We met some other lads groups out too and they seemed to be a similar demographic to us. This time of year there tends to be one or two experienced boaters in the party who are the ones organising it and the boat handling and general conduct is no trouble at all. Stag season can be different, I agree, and last year was a bit more chaotic but that's not the whole story.

[andyg]

6 minutes ago, oldgregg said:

It seems an odd decision to me.

There is strong demand for high end boats for couples and families at the moment, but once foreign travel opens up again I can't see that enough people will pay £1000+ for a long weekend when they could go abroad for the same money. 

It always struck me that the classic fleet was the 'bread and butter' which kept the business going. No-one is ever going to get rich on a £600 weekend hire, but they're priced in a way which keeps people coming and keeps the business ticking over with income from experienced boaters (who are usually less fussed about having the latest boat) and it builds loyalty too.

And let's be clear - Not all groups of lads are a bad thing for a business. I've just spent the weekend on an orange Ricko's bathtub with four others and we've put plenty of money into the local economy.

Yep had my stagg with rickos, not a single complaint. 16 of us on three boats well over 3k spent in local pubs and restaurants,Over the course of the weekend. Does gripe me when certain ppl tar everyone with the same brush. 

[Meantime]

3 hours ago, RS2021 said:

If it makes business sense to build and operate new boats why close down your boat building operation?

I guess that's what happens when two business partners, who in this case are also brothers, go their own way and one of them is in charge of the new boat building division. I would imagine a certain amount of financial restructuring has gone on behind the scenes which will leave two smaller businesses. 

[PaulN]

I'm obviously out of step with everyone else. I personally wont miss stag and hen boats! Have you ever been on a pleasant quiet mooring like Womack when one or two of these pull in for the evening.

I'm also confident that Paul and Clive are far more knowledgeable about running boating businesses that most of us.

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, andyg said:

 . . . . Does gripe me when certain ppl tar everyone with the same brush. 

 

4 minutes ago, PaulN said:

I'm obviously out of step with everyone else. I personally wont miss stag and hen boats! Have you ever been on a pleasant quiet mooring like Womack when one or two of these pull in for the evening.

Get both views, however tarring specific groups with the same brush happens in all walks of life.  How many of us became tired of ‘the immigrants’ and was that not one of the major factors in the Brexit discussions?  Many of ‘the immigrants’ came here for work, filled many of the jobs that we Brits don’t want to lower ourselves to fill (in care and transport for example) and paid their way.

I was sat at The Ferry House one weekend in July 2020, when a boat full of lads sped past with music blaring out, the crew apparently largely the worse for alcohol, dancing on the roof of the boat.  It was in the local press and social media the following morning that the police had been called to the boat at Norwich Yacht Station overnight to try to calm down the crew, whose high jinks were causing a nuisance.  That sort of behaviour, frankly I can do without, not only for the noise, but the fact that they had no regard for the dangers presented by their surroundings, which could have led to another tragic alcohol fuelled death on the rivers.

It’ll be better when they can return to Magaluf to do what the Brits are best known for in such places.  Sorry, but my opinion.

[Dan]

2 hours ago, Mouldy said:

 

Get both views, however tarring specific groups with the same brush happens in all walks of life.  How many of us became tired of ‘the immigrants’ and was that not one of the major factors in the Brexit discussions?  Many of ‘the immigrants’ came here for work, filled many of the jobs that we Brits don’t want to lower ourselves to fill (in care and transport for example) and paid their way.

I was sat at The Ferry House one weekend in July 2020, when a boat full of lads sped past with music blaring out, the crew apparently largely the worse for alcohol, dancing on the roof of the boat.  It was in the local press and social media the following morning that the police had been called to the boat at Norwich Yacht Station overnight to try to calm down the crew, whose high jinks were causing a nuisance.  That sort of behaviour, frankly I can do without, not only for the noise, but the fact that they had no regard for the dangers presented by their surroundings, which could have led to another tragic alcohol fuelled death on the rivers.

It’ll be better when they can return to Magaluf to do what the Brits are best known for in such places.  Sorry, but my opinion.

Understandable, but if people want a stag do on the broads won’t they just hire two boats?! You never completely remove a problem

i guess much as there is always a **** in a crowd if you hire enough boats or whatever it is a certain percentage will be idiots and if capable of being thrown into a minority or different group different to the onlooker that doesn’t touch their life it is easy to say good riddance

A shame to see big reductions of boats at a time of high demand but I guess everything has its day

Dan

[oldgregg]

There have definitely been a lot of 'non-Boaters' trying the Broads out over the past two seasons, and that will obviously bring some challenges but once air travel becomes easier then we'll only see the people who got into it and who now have a bit more experience.

I do think it's a bit of a shame to see the larger boats disappearing from the fleets. Ideal 45's are a bit marmite but the Aquafibre 42's are a good boat and in MK2 form like San Bernadette they still look relatively modern. And they handle beautifully.

 

[Meantime]

It will be interesting to see what happens to the likes of the Ideal 45's. The toll system works on block area which means they will cost as much to toll as the later RC45's, however the later boats probably hire for two or three times the money of the Ideal 45's. Then factor in that they are more than likely to be hired by stag or hen parties and the mess they are likely to be returned in at the end of the week compared to the newer boats.

However if they are sold off, who would realistically want to buy one? Upwards of £700 annual toll, upwards of £3000 annual mooring fee. Lift outs and anti four all charged by the foot. A lot of annual running costs for a boat that is probably way too large for all but the largest families and on the whole they are very tired looking. An Ideal liveaboard maybe, but if you can make do with something smaller, in the region of 35ft, there are some decent savings to be made in terms of annual running costs.

[DAVIDH]

It's unfathomable to a mere mortal like me. The market is there. Nobody else is taking it up. Those boats must have paid for themselves many times over the years, so it's just upkeep expenses. Yes, many people who have holidayed on the Broads over the last two years, will likely be overseas next summer (variants allowed of course). But the overall number of boats for hire hasn't risen over that time, so assuming the number of hirers reverts back to 2019 levels, an opportunity to make money is being missed. 

[Meantime]

9 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

It's unfathomable to a mere mortal like me. The market is there. Nobody else is taking it up. Those boats must have paid for themselves many times over the years, so it's just upkeep expenses. Yes, many people who have holidayed on the Broads over the last two years, will likely be overseas next summer (variants allowed of course). But the overall number of boats for hire hasn't risen over that time, so assuming the number of hirers reverts back to 2019 levels, an opportunity to make money is being missed. 

I would guess it comes down to the overall figures, would you prefer to hire out 400 boats with an average occupancy over the season of 80%, or 350 boats with an average occupancy of 95%. If you remove a less popular boat from service that perhaps only lets for 10 weeks of the season, you will not necessarily lose 10 weeks of rental as hopefully they get pushed onto other boats, perhaps more expensive boats,, even if it means someone ends up booking a different week to the one they were hoping for.

An old boat may have paid for itself, but that doesn't mean it will be a profitable hire. My toll for a 35ft boat,  was around £500 this year. I think the hire boat toll multiplier is something like 2.6. So as a hire boat my boat would cost around £1300 to toll. Now spread that as a cost over a new 35ft boat that rents for 22weeks of the season and then spread that same toll over an old 35ft boat that perhaps rents for 8 or 10 weeks of the season. The toll works on block area of the boat, not age or rental revenue. Some of those weeks will be at the expense of weeks on more expensive boats. Then factor in that the older boats need more maintenance, older more unreliable engines, tired interiors, faulty batteries etc.

Finally I have spent a couple of hours looking through publicly available information and there has been some significant restructuring of the company to facilitate the departure of one of the directors and in such a way as to not overly burden or unduly risk the future of the company, but non the less it will need to service those liabilities and work to reduce them over time, before looking to again burden the company with additional costs as a result of expansion.

I think it is no secret that most new build boats are not built out of profit, but funded with borrowed money that needs to be paid back over time. Wyndham Vacation Rentals have charges on many of the boats recently built to protect their loans made for the construction of those boats.

Any ambitious expansion and renewal plan can only go on for so long before a period of consolidation and strengthening of the balance sheet needs to occur.

It may not always make sense to the outsider, but it is good business practice.

[Vaughan]

51 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Finally I have spent a couple of hours looking through publicly available information

Well it may be in the "public domain" if you care to take the time to rake it up but I am afraid your post feels, to me, like poking your nose into other peoples' business.

If Richardsons have decided to lay off a few boats for next season that leaves us with a nice piece of armchair speculation as to their long term plans, especially those of us who have known the company and its history for a very long time.  We are also interested in the future of the Broads, of course.

Please don't let's turn this forum discussion into a "Chasse aux sorcières".

[Meantime]

16 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Well it may be in the "public domain" if you care to take the time to rake it up but I am afraid your post feels, to me, like poking your nose into other peoples' business.

If Richardsons have decided to lay off a few boats for next season that leaves us with a nice piece of armchair speculation as to their long term plans, especially those of us who have known the company and its history for a very long time.  We are also interested in the future of the Broads, of course.

Please don't let's turn this forum discussion into a "Chasse aux sorcières".

Firstly let me assure you that it is in no way a witch hunt. It is also not poking your nose into other peoples business, if it is public facing business and the information is in the public domain free of charge. I find it interesting what has been done but was very careful in how I phrased my post, to rightly avoid any negative speculation.

It is public knowledge on this forum that Clive has gone off and done his own thing. I was careful to only post so much of the information, but anyone can do their own research if they want to. It's freely available.

My post should not be construed as a witch hunt, as speculation on the future of the company, or meant to cause them any harm at all.

[rightsaidfred]

Only Richardsons know what is in the best interest and sustainability of the company, over the years they have changed direction and diversified many times and still remain a major and succesful player amongst Broads  businesses, speculation and commentary on our part will be neither helpful or of value, if we want the broads to  continue as a viable boating area then we need to support all the various commercial ventures  new and old without judgement or trying to impose our personal prejudices. 

Fred

[C.Ricko]

Evening, lots of interesting chat on here but its all good, the de merge was not a result of Dad not being with us anymore although on one hand he thought it should all stay together he knew that with the amount of Grandchildren involved that there was a issue brewing and something would need to be addressed at some point. With my current lack of interest in the holiday camp coupled with my desire to develop and build boats it made sense for me to try and do my own thing, I handed over the running of the Stalham yard about 4 years ago and was just building the boats for the fleet at Stalham and looking after the Horning yard as well as the industrial units..

With the De merge a reduced New build was going to be kept by the Stalham site but with the Covid situation the decision was made to close it which I felt was a sad thing as I had built the team up over 10 years and learned a shed load from them I didn't want to loose that knowledge base so after a break I took some of  them on in July 2020 (before the de merge had happened) and we started building a Hull which I had had designed I was still working on the superstructure.. 

Its fair to say that I wouldn't have made half the decisions which are being made at Stalham at present but that is the whole point in me not being involved any more so its not my business.

[Wussername]

Without judgement Fred?

Without personal prejudices, or do you mean concern.

Andrew

[Roy]

Well said Clive I hope you all the best in your new venture I’m sure it will be successful looking back on what you have achieved with the boats you have built already I can’t wait to see your new boats when they are built. 

Roy 

[rightsaidfred]

40 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Without judgement Fred?

Without personal prejudices, or do you mean concern.

Andrew

Every one is entitled to be concerned about the future of the broads that isn't a problem, regarding prejudice I was thinking more of the general attitude there seems to be against any new ventures like SUPs etc they may not be everyone's cup of tea but if they help bring  a new breed of people to help sustain the area they should be welcomed the same goes for whatever direction the hire fleets take, they understand their business  needs far better than us its not our place to judge or critisise, it's just my mentality and pet hate but I dislike speculation that could be detramental to others.

Fred 

[Meantime]

14 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

its not our place to judge or critisise, it's just my mentality and pet hate but I dislike speculation that could be detramental to others.

I see discussion on this thread, but I don't see judgement, criticism or speculation to the detriment of any company on this thread. Something has obviously touched a raw nerve, but I'm sure it wasn't intentional.

[andyg]

Hi Clive all respect to you fella, you don't need to justify your family business on here. I think we could all see the changes at Stalham and I'm a fan of what you guys have done and still do for thousands of holiday makers. I'm sure I spk for most on this forum in  whishing you  all the best at Horning. Have a word with Paul tho about the bloody awful new boat names 😉... joke !! 

[Vaughan]

7 hours ago, Meantime said:

Something has obviously touched a raw nerve, but I'm sure it wasn't intentional.

Not so much a raw nerve as a simple matter of discretion and courtesy.

I don't use a forum name as I have always felt that the history and knowledge of boat hiring that I share here would not be anywhere near as valid if members didn't know who I was.  You, on at least your third incarnation of forum names, prefer to keep your identity unknown.  Not a stable platform, I would suggest, from which to delve into the business affairs of others, even to the extent of naming one of the finance houses involved.

I try to share my knowledge of the industry in ways which are helpful to debate, whilst hopefully remaining discreet.  The majority of boat hirers and builders on the Broads are very old friends of mine and some of them are members of my own family.  In Richardsons' case I was employed by them in a management role on two occasions, in Norfolk and in France.  There are many details of other people's businesses that I could share here (quite legally) but would never think of doing so.

Looking back on our discussion on this thread I feel that there is a line which has been crossed.  A fine one, yes but a line all the same.

My father once told me that a definition of an English gentleman is some-one who knows how to play the bagpipes - but refrains from doing so!

[JanetAnne]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

My father once told me that a definition of an English gentleman is some-one who knows how to play the bagpipes - but refrains from doing so!

That has started my day with a smile.

[HEM]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

My father once told me that a definition of an English gentleman is some-one who knows how to play the bagpipes - but refrains from doing so!

Conjures up the vision of Captain Mainwaring playing the bagpipes...

"I spent my honeymoon in a remote village in Scotland called InverGeechie. It was a wild and lonely place. The nights were long ... and there was nothing else to do."

[Vaughan]

And that reminds me of Flanders and Swann - I think it was :

I have just spent the last two years living in squalor.

Which is in Kent.

[Meantime]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

11 hours ago, Meantime said:

Something has obviously touched a raw nerve, but I'm sure it wasn't intentional.

Not so much a raw nerve as a simple matter of discretion and courtesy.

Vaughan, not for the first time you have quoted me out of context to suit your own aims!!! My words were in response to RSF below because I don't see any speculation on this thread that could be detrimental to others.

11 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

its not our place to judge or critisise, it's just my mentality and pet hate but I dislike speculation that could be detramental to others.

If you review this thread, especially the first page there has been speculation, some of which you participated in as well, but none of it was malicious or detrimental, just genuine discussion and interest.

As the thread developed it peaked my interest and I did a bit if research using publicly held and freely available information. There are many reason to own a limited company, the most obvious of which is to limit your liabilities should the worst happen and the company go broke. As a counter balance to that much of a companies information gets held in the public domain to allow the general public to research, analyse and scrutinise should they wish to do so. It's how the system works.

When I was at school, I was taught in maths that one minus a third equals two thirds. You have to be a magician to continue to grow and expand something whilst it is shrinking.

What the directors, present and past, of Richardsons have done is impressive, admirable and importantly helps to protect the business for the future. They have managed to achieve the seemingly impossible with an amicable parting of the ways whilst protecting the business for the future and keeping it on a sound footing.

There is no detrimental speculation there, just praise and admiration.

Finally, I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to go into the subject of forum names again.