Flags Of Convenience

[Vaughan]

I suppose that means it is also OK for another member to have his considered opinion dismissed as "Utter rubbish!"

We would not talk to each other like this if we were standing at the bar having a pint in the Pleasure Boat, so why should we lower the tone of good manners and courtesy when having a discussion here.

Some may think this normal, which is a very sad reflection on social media in general. Personally I am deeply upset by it and take no pleasure in it whatever.

[andyg]

I personally don't believe I have been in anyway offensive or rude to you Vaughan. I haven't seen what others have said so can't comment on it. Il leave it there I think. 

[ModeratorTeam]

This thread has been unlocked on the understanding that the topic is focused on the subject matter. Any deviation, in particular personal attacks veiled or  otherwise will result in posts being deleted.

Can we also remind members that the best way to deal with a perceived personal attack or comment is to report it to the moderators and refrain from answering the post (trolls are best ignored), and just allow us to deal with the problem. (if we hide the offending post we also have to hide the subsequent responses that quote it).

moderator action is only ever taken when a post breaches the Terms of Service, its only ever reactive to what members post, so consider this when you complain the site is over moderated, that this means that members have posted content that for some reason is unacceptable, if you say in your post that it will probably be hidden, then it means you recognise this fact, and the post you are about to post possibly breaches the TOS, so why post it?

Thanks The Moderator Team

https://forum.norfolkbroadsnetwork.com/guidelines/

[grendel]

I have been asked to post the following quote from a report in the press.

Quote

I quote from an article in this morning's Daily Mail :

The millionaire boss of P&O Ferries has insisted that the disgraced operator did not break British labour laws by sensationally sacking 800 seafarers without notice in one fell swoop by video call - because their ships were registered outside the UK.

. . . . the very clear statutory obligation . . .  was to notify the competent authority of the state where the vessel is registered.  In this case, Cyprus and The Bahamas.

 

[Heron]

I wonder then why P&O ferries bothered to tell the UK government what they were going to do the day before the announcement was made, something has a bad smell about it.

[twowrights]

The Pride of Hull left the Humber tonight to sail to Holland, it's believed no passengers or cargo were onboard. 

[BroadAmbition]

We are supposed to be on that service from Hull to Rotterdam in May 

Griff

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I bet DFDS are rubbing hands with all this extra freight and passengers coming there way.. 

P&Os Liverpool to Dublin is running tho.. 

 

[TeamElla]

It has happened before:-

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/26/stevenmorris.uknews2

[twowrights]

11 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

We are supposed to be on that service from Hull to Rotterdam in May 

Griff

I'm sure it'll be running again very soon. Best of luck getting to the docks, just three and a half years left before completion of the A63 road works! 😜

[dnks34]

I wonder if the Pride of Hull has been moved to Rotterdam to allow the Pride of Rotterdam to be put back in to service as the crew on the Dutch registered vessel were unaffected by the hatchet job. 
 

Interestingly on the BBC lunch time news headlines the P&O boss has admitted breaking the law.

[floydraser]

I saw the coverage of the committee grilling the bosses of P&O and DP World.

P&O Man admitted breaking the law deliberately to avoid consulting the unions. DP World Man said he would not be sacking P&O Man for gross misconduct. Seems to me that if P&O Man could prove he was instructed by DP World Man to operate that way, he would be able to claim wrongful dismissal and spill more beans. He was clearly taking a fall for DP World Man.

The only sensible thing said on Question Time last night was that there should be a prison sentence for such law breaking.

It also seems a lot of companies have taken the furlough support then made redundancies/downgrades, only most have been in respect of the law and been more sympathetic.

[FlyingFortress]

So open again.

Scrumpy I will answer your question a bit later.

I notice that the hourly rate for the scab crew is now repoted as £5.50 per hour.

Bit different to what was reported on here and a lot more than the£1.60 an hour reported in the national news.

Can anyone see an addendum here or is it just me.

I was Very lucky in my seagoing career not to encounter the RMT in any force.

I did encounter the dockers union when they insisted it was a dockers job to offload cargo at an oil rig.

They lasted one voyage and decided it was a sailors job after all.

I have the upmost respect for a GOOD British sailor as I learned my trade from them. 

But the lazy Drunk and Union protected sailor such as the one who left the doors open on the Herald of Free Enterprise I have no time for.

 

[FlyingFortress]

On 21/03/2022 at 03:18, ScrumpyCheddar said:

What I would like to know is that many ships are registered at Nassau .. 
Do they ever have to report back to that port in anytime .?

For an example, do they have to sail back to Nassau every 6 months or yearly or is just your registered here and no you don’t have to ever come here..? 
 

 

Simple answer no.

In fact I would be amazed if very many of the ships registered in the two largest FOC s Liberia and Panama have ever been near these countries. Maybe Panama as they have to transit the Canal,but I did have to look up Vanuato ,not even sure I have spelled that correctly, when a company I was working for decided to flag some ships there.

These flags are just a money making scheme for the country

They employ their own surveyors ,who are not normally that nationality,and enforce their own standards usually lower than the more traditional maritime nations.

A small example of how they make money is that like a lot of other ships officers I have a Panamanian and Bahamas Masters Ticket alongside my British one. Both of these had to be paid for and were a requirement for sailing on ships of that country.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

45 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Simple answer no.

In fact I would be amazed if very many of the ships registered in the two largest FOC s Liberia and Panama have ever been near these countries. Maybe Panama as they have to transit the Canal,but I did have to look up Vanuato ,not even sure I have spelled that correctly, when a company I was working for decided to flag some ships there.

These flags are just a money making scheme for the country

They employ their own surveyors ,who are not normally that nationality,and enforce their own standards usually lower than the more traditional maritime nations.

A small example of how they make money is that like a lot of other ships officers I have a Panamanian and Bahamas Masters Ticket alongside my British one. Both of these had to be paid for and were a requirement for sailing on ships of that country.

Great Information.. How much cheaper is it to Register them in another country to here in the UK 🇬🇧. 

[FlyingFortress]

Don't really know TBH but it must be worthwhile as an awful lot have done so.

Trouble is that it is much more than simply the registration fees. There are many other factors involved such as Minimum Safe Manning levels.

I once was on a ship that changed from Dutch to Bahamas flag and the Safe Manning numbers were much lower. The company that I was working for realized that we needed more than minimum to operate the ship safely and manned accordingly.

[FlyingFortress]

Going back to UK flag and it being a Flag of Convenience there are also perks of being UK flagged such as reduced insurance premiums and The Tonnage Tax .

The Tonnage Tax exists to ensure that British Cadets (Midshipmen in RN parlance) get trained on British ships. However you will often find the Cadets are the only Brits on board but the company gets a reduced rate for having them on board.

There is no prospect for many of them for employment after qualifying.

Thankfully for them British Junior Officers are in demand in specialized fields such as the Cruise Sector.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

What if your ship, Say a Dutch one was registered in the Ukraine would that make them a target by the Russians or would they know you was flying under a flag of convenience. ?? 

[FlyingFortress]

A Flagged Ship of any nation hostile to another nation is a legitimate target.

I was once on a British owned and run ship but registered in Iran and we were hit by Iraqui fighter aircraft during the Iran Iraq war .

[ScrumpyCheddar]

1 hour ago, FlyingFortress said:

A Flagged Ship of any nation hostile to another nation is a legitimate target.

I was once on a British owned and run ship but registered in Iran and we were hit by Iraqui fighter aircraft during the Iran Iraq war .

Omg I bet that was pretty scary at the time.. Was there much damage or did you have to abandon ship..   ?. 

So basically study the politics before registering a ship in a country first. 

So the safest country to register would be Switzerland but as it’s landlocked country with no ports is it possible to register there ??? 

[FlyingFortress]

Don't think Switzerland has a register but there is a landlocked country with a register but I cannot for the life of me remember which one.

As far as the Iran attack it was just cannon shells hitting the aft deck. Could have been much worse had they hit the much larger cargo deck of the tanker I was on.

Did have to change my underwear afterwards.

Only had to abandon ship once when the ship hit an oil rig and got ripped apart on Christmas day 1990.

Google Vulcan Service 

So what did you do for Christmas. Rod?

Doggy paddle in a force 9 in the North Sea emoji 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

You was very lucky on both occasions..  Doggy paddling out at sea on Christmas Day..  I can honestly say rather you than me but what an experience to have and to survive and to tell the stories on it .. Your have to rub some of your luck on me next time Rod 🤣👍👍.. 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I’m Glad to see P&O ferries have sorted there new Crew out 🤣🤣🤣

[SteveO]

I know of one U.K. shipping company who "flagged out" their fleet a number or years ago. What they forgot about was that they recruit their UK-based management from former seafaring employees. Things don't look so clever now that they struggle to recruit English-speaking managers who know anything at all about working at sea.