Flags Of Convenience

[FairTmiddlin]

51 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

If this is true, I hope they go bust:

And the figure bandied about was a £100m loss.

[Davydine]

I had heard similar figures, also that the pension pot has a £147 million deficit that the parent company has refused to fill, but at the same time have sponsored a golf tournament to the tune of £148 million!

One point worth making, please can we use “P&O Ferries” and not just “P&O” because P&O cruises is an entirely separate organisation owned by Carnival and it would be unfair for them to be tarred with the same brush when they have done nothing wrong.

[colino]

There contracts of employment are in the channel Islands. No employees from EU sacked ?

[FlyingFortress]

Unfortunately this is nothing new in the Shipping Industry. 

For example in the middle 80,s BP did something similar and many thousands of seafarers were made redundant. An awful lot of them heared it on The Evening News before they heared anything from the company. 

Shipping is a largely unseen and uncared for industry, its only when it inconveniences the travelling public it makes the news. 

This is one of the reasons I despair when I see people dressed up as Pirates on the Broads when Piracy on the high seas is still a major proplem claiming the lives of many Seafarers every year. It is under better control these days but only a few years ago it was rife off Somalia. Other Piracy hot spots include West Africa, South America and The South China Seas. Most attacks involve the theft at gunpoint of the crews possessions and the cash carried by the Master. Other more organised groups hold the Ship and crew for ransom. Even the cargo is sometimes stolen if indeed it is high value and the Pirates are organised enough. 

This is still happening in 2022

[Heron]

Perhaps P&O Ferries and our government thought that now was a good time to bury the story?

[Dan]

Shame on P&O Ferries

To think a Management team got together and came up with that plan.  Shame on them

To think the guy who delivered that video message was not long ago creating videos or messages more about careers, business family type messages etc... shame on him

I hope they see some harsh penalties, although I believe people are fickle and will continue to use them if convenient or cheaper/price/have short memories based on the past

If the government don't bother too much or just make a bit of noise or send a letter or two... or more meaningless platitudes by them then more similar behaviour from businesses will follow

Of course profitable business is not always the easiest navigation, but some people need stringing up and teaching it doesn't ever mean you should treat people like that

Shame on them

Dan

[ModeratorTeam]

Whilst we are all rightly shocked and disgusted by the actions of this company, please remember the Terms of Service, particularly in relation to Political comments.

Thanks.

[Smoggy]

If I ever boat near Dover again (I doubt it, its crap) I'll be making sure if colregs are in my favour they can wait for me to clear instead on the "might is right" approach. 

[Andrewcook]

As to Flags of Convenience, that's all very well for the P&O to do that but the Share Holders got their money from the Taxpayer's that is very wrong as P&O should be penalized for this and reinstated all those workers unfairly dismissed

[marshman]

For what its worth you have to remember that P & O ferries were taken over by DP World in 2005 I think, and from what FF says the shipping world has changed a lot over the last 20 years.

From the comments here , you would think the Govt had any control over what happened and as far as shareholders are concerned, it has long not been quoted here in the UK, indeed if anywhere! Perhaps tourists should not go on holiday to Dubai?

Of course its not the correct way to go about issues but this instance will not be the first, nor the last, to take such action I am afraid.

[twowrights]

Our local rag is reporting that the new crew will been paid £2.60 an hour, shameful. The old crew should have upped anchor and anchored in the Humber, failing that sent for a Ukrainian chief engineer! 

[Heron]

I can't remember who was in the UAE from the  UK in the middle of this week, anyone any ideas?

[CeePee1952]

2 hours ago, Heron said:

I can't remember who was in the UAE from the  UK in the middle of this week, anyone any ideas?

Think it might have been BJ?? 

Chris

[FlyingFortress]

10 hours ago, twowrights said:

Our local rag is reporting that the new crew will been paid £2.60 an hour, shameful. The old crew should have upped anchor and anchored in the Humber, failing that sent for a Ukrainian chief engineer! 

I have written 3 lengthy posts in reply to this but I am certain they will be moderated as I am sure this one will be. 

So in reply to this quote. 

Utter Rubbish 

[FlyingFortress]

And who is Gods Earth would want an Ukrainian Chief Engineer. 

Not me for sure. 

Personally I would prefer a Russian if given a choice of a bad job. 

And yes I have sailed with both. 

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

I have written 3 lengthy posts in reply to this but I am certain they will be moderated as I am sure this one will be. 

So in reply to this quote. 

Utter Rubbish 

If you wish to resort to needless personal abuse then I am sure it will be moderated - again.

You, as a long time member, will know this used to be known as the Friendly Forum.

[andyg]

What ever your political beliefs or veiws might be or your take on what is going on in this crazy world at the moment, this is  disgraceful behaviour and to treat your employees in this fashion is outrageous. P&O ferry's should have there right to operate from any UK port withdrawn its as simple as that. Yes it would create some short term pain but it will be overcome, someone will step in and take there place. The UK government needs to send out a signal that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable in today's world. 800 people just thrown out on there ear, by a bloody video message as well. Absolutely disgusting...

[floydraser]

And back in 1994 supermarkets opened on Sundays for the first time leading up to Christmas. Then in the new year they decided they would carry on opening on Sundays with the promise they would carry on paying the going rate of time and a half for Saturday and double time for Sunday. All new employees after that were on different contracts which paid for less for weekends. Many on the old contracts were then intimidated into going on to the "new World" pay contracts.

There ain't nothing new under the sun. 

How much of the total capacity of available ferries are P&O? Since the opening of the channel tunnel I would guess there won't be much spare, therefore businesses may need them to get over the channel.

[annv]

Hi Another reason for registering a vessel abroad is to avoid  VAT payment on completion of the build and launch, by registering the vessel in a country with low VAT rate saves a awful lot of money. John

[marshman]

Andy - it is not the right way to do it but you and I know these thing happen. And will continue to happen! You have only to read Floydraser's comment to see that. 

Many many people are on revolving contracts where you have to reapply each year and the cosy old days where the RMT and the suchlike controlled many industries, have long gone. Look back into history and see what happened to the dockers and coal industry - TFL is going to have an almighty bust up soon too! Have you seen their perks and days off? Industries have to adapt to survive and that applies not just to management - workers have to too.

I am glad to see FF's comments remaining - at least he has direct knowledge of the industry and is just pointing out facts and the reality of the industry

[grendel]

59 minutes ago, annv said:

Hi Another reason for registering a vessel abroad is to avoid  VAT payment on completion of the build and launch, by registering the vessel in a country with low VAT rate saves a awful lot of money. John

as there are not many new ferries out there John, I would suggest that this wasnt the reason, the pride of kent and the pride of bergundy are over 30 years old now, so any VAT paid at launch has long been recovered.

[BroadAmbition]

I am glad to see FF's comments remaining - at least he has direct knowledge of the industry and is just pointing out facts and the reality of the industry

Me too, it's handy having an expert with factual knowledge of the subject matter onboard

We shortly will be having to book our ferry trip from Hull to Rotterdam for the two of us and Trevor Transit (And back - hopefully!)  I can't see any other ferry company than P&O ferries to accomplish this

Griff

[andyg]

One thing is for sure and is totally within government's powers to stop and it's this policy of fire and re hire that many companies openly use. It should be stopped. DPworld have just announced 100s of new jobs at my local port, the London Gateway. What kind of image does this send out to prospective employee's about there future employer. I also don't except that P&O ferry's have been loosing 100 million pounds a year, year on year utter tosh..

[TeamElla]

The re-flagging of the Dover fleet started a year or so before Brexit as each vessel went in for annual refit.

As a Contractor I was there to see it - Port of Registry changed each time from Dover to Limassol.

In hindsight, it would appear to have been a sign of things to come. Maybe they had to make big savings but treating loyal employees in this fashion will never be forgotten

 

[FlyingFortress]

For the record 

I am not for one minute defending the appalling actions of P&O but some of the wild stories flying around are simply untrue. 

The agency staff that will now man the Ferries will be fully qualified and will not be working for £2.60 an hour in the sense that most people will think. 

A seafarer is captive on board for 24 hours so you cannot measure the hourly rate that way. 

The above of course is relevant to the longer crossings.