Flags Of Convenience

[Vaughan]

I have just looked up a couple of P&O ferries on vessel finder.

It turns out that the Pride of Kent is registered in Cyprus and the Pride of Hull, in the Bahamas.  I haven't looked up the others, but I can guess.

Sure enough, I think we will find that the crews who have just been sacked, were no longer employed under British law as they are no longer British registered ships.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Very sad for those that were made redundant. 

[Smoggy]

Don't think I'll be considering using p&o anytime soon the way they are treating people.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Well aware that it doesnt mean much long term however the package for long serving employees isnt bad.

[Davydine]

1 hour ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Very sad for those that were made redundant. 

Being pedantic, but they weren't made redundant, they were sacked and replaced with cheaper labour. Their jobs still exist so they can't be made redundant.

[grendel]

having seen the video in a local news report the way they were told was that they were being made redundant via a video link , if that is so, they have not followed the procedures and consultations they should have for redundancy, so the employees may have a case aganst their former employers.

[Chelsea14Ian]

True,but very unfair all the same.I Hope that those sacked find work elsewhere,with a decent  employer. 

[Vaughan]

34 minutes ago, Davydine said:

Their jobs still exist so they can't be made redundant.

Is that the law in Cyprus? Or the Bahamas? Or perhaps Panama?

[Ray]

The bottom line is that it's a shoddy move, they no doubt have checked the legality and care less about the morality.

[BroadAmbition]

Bit awkward this one. 

We are hoping to visit family in Germany in May. We need to go in Trevor Transit. That means Hull to Rotterdam with P&O

Griff

[FlyingFortress]

The Red Ensign has been a Flag of Convenience for many years now. 

Nobody noticed until a Ferry got Flagged out. 

[grendel]

owned by Dubai’s DP World

[grendel]

does anyone know the situation regarding the requirement for pilots, I seem to recall that ferry captains also are required to hold a pilots licence for the ports they travel (as a commercial vessel)., i wonder if the 'replacement crews' will hold the necessary paperwork

[marshman]

I would think by May the services will be up and running - in fact I( suspect that they will be operating again fairly quickly.

We shall have to see what happens but no company can withstand those kind of losses - my guess, if I had to, is that the existing pension scheme may have something to do with it. 

[Davydine]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Is that the law in Cyprus? Or the Bahamas? Or perhaps Panama?

You missed my point. The law of whichever country may legally allow them to dismiss staff in this way, but people aren't made redundant, jobs are. The jobs still exist, so the people cant have lost jobs through redundancy. Semantics really and not really relevant given the seriousness of the situation.

Either way, P&O ferries have treated people appallingly and I hope they are punished accordingly.

[FlyingFortress]

On

54 minutes ago, grendel said:

does anyone know the situation regarding the requirement for pilots, I seem to recall that ferry captains also are required to hold a pilots licence for the ports they travel (as a commercial vessel)., i wonder if the 'replacement crews' will hold the necessary paperwork

I know very well the requirements for Pilots having been one for 23 years. 

There is no requirement for a Ferry to hold a Pilots license. 

A ferry Captain or Chief Officer will need to hold a Pilot Exemption Certificate or PEC which while being no more onerous than a Pilots Autherisation is not anywhere near the same as an Autherisation. A Pilot will be able to Pilot any vessel whereas a PEC can only Pilot a specific ship. 

Very many Foreign Nationals hold PEC, s as I did as a Captain in Foreign Ports. 

It may also surprise many that somewhere in the region of 30% of Pilots the largest Port in this country (London) are not British. 

So yes the replacement crews will have to hold a relevant PEC or take a Pilot until such times that they take and pass The PEC examination. I am not an examinor but I am an Assessor and I will not grant either a Pilot promotion or PEC until they meet the reqired standard. 

[FlyingFortress]

FYI

I have just checked my Discharge Book and it was 1995 when I first sailed on a Red Ensign vessel as Master (thats Captain in common parlance) with a Chief Engineer who was not British as the requirement had been dropped. 

I do not know when the requirement for The Master of a British vessel to be a British national was dropped but I qualified as a Licensed Pilot in 2000 and have Piloted very many Red Ensign vessels with not a single Brit on board. 

I am not talking about the Pseudo Red Ensigns like IOM GIB or HK but ships registered in Ports such as London Southampton etc. 

I dont agree with it just stating facts. 

For the record I don't agree with Ferries working out of UK ports not having a single Brit on board either but the truth is The UK flag has been a Flag of Convenience for many years now. 

[FairTmiddlin]

11 hours ago, grendel said:

owned by Dubai’s DP World

But still a registered British company at Companies house

[Chelsea14Ian]

Mentioned on BBC breakfast. P&O cruises are not the same as the ferry's. The company  split into separate bodies a few years back.

[Hylander]

Old saying and true to this day -   No love loss in business.    Hope they are proud of themselves.

[floydraser]

13 hours ago, grendel said:

owned by Dubai’s DP World

And that I think, is why they will get away with it. It's about oil, just like paying off old debts to get people released. HMG will probably compensate the employees to keep the oil flowing and keep on the Sultan's Christmas card list. Call me cynical if you like...

[Smoggy]

Your just cynical!

 

But likely spot on.

[BrundallNavy]

If they offer an enhanced redundancy payment as I believe they have, they can do what they want and the government cannot stop them.

As a PR exercise it’s been a disaster. 

[Smoggy]

Does enhanced redundancy still work though when it's not a legitimate redundancy, the jobs are still there with agency workers doing them!

I did hear one agency worker walked away as he found out what was happening, I hope more do the same but if you have no other income it's not an easy choice to make.

[Mouldy]

If this is true, I hope they go bust: